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More details about the Qualcomm Snapdragon 1000 for Windows 10 laptops

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57 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

the Photos app which is running in the background is chewing 500MB of RAM which I think is unacceptable..

I deleted Photos from my system and revived the old fashion Windows Photo Viewer through registry xd.


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1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Well Android users generally are in the lower income brackets so they are more likely to seek out free alternatives rather than consume the content that devs need to make their products. 

 

Also LOL, free well made apps on Android? Have you looked around the Play Store recently? 

Im glad you still think poor people only use android. I see many iphones in the lower class. 

 

Android usually has a free alternative to an app. If it does the same thing then why pay? 

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2 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

I deleted Photos from my system and revived the old fashion Windows Photo Viewer through registry xd.

I use Faststone Image viewer. Try it. It is much better

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Just now, avg123 said:

I use Faststone Image viewer. Try it. It is much better

Nah I'm more than used and pleased with the old Windows Photo Viewer, it's light, has functionality, really no reason to bother... I even added the .gif support to it.


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1 minute ago, asus killer said:

that is just nonsense. 

 

1 minute ago, mynameisjuan said:

Im glad you still think poor people only use android. I see many iphones in the lower class. 

Bruh what reality do you guys live in?

http://www.businessinsider.com/android-v-apple-ios-market-share-revenue-income-2014-6 


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10 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Like I said I see just as many fucking welfare people with iphones as I do android. Not everyone wants to spend a grand on a phone. 

 

Also did you miss the final quote in your argument?:

  1. Android's market share is strongest in relatively lower income countries

I mean no shit. You are talking places that have maybe $50 to spend on a phone which is impossible with apple. Take your elitism somewhere else. 

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11 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

They have market share, they but they don’t lead in performance or profits, aka the important stuff. 

 

Its like Android and iOS from a developers standpoint. Android has a larger user base but nobody on Android buys anything. 

Your argument doesn't make sense. Apple's processors are made in-house and not sold to anyone. You can't measure profits on those. Apple would have bigger profits if they used Mediatek chips and they would still sell the same number of phones if they used Mediatek processors.

Qualcomm is bigger than their CPU designs. If they can implement ARM CPU designs consistently, their profits are bigger. It's actually a funny argument you're making because Qualcomm's profits benefit from their lackluster CPU effort and Apple's do not benefit from their massive CPU effort.

 

The last paragraph is a bit ridiculous but I think you're already aware of that.

3 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

I am saying that specific wattage doesnt matter to anyone but the manufacturer to make sure enough power is supplied. Does TDP matter with custom machines? Sure, need to make sure you have enough cooling. In a fucking laptop? No its doesnt matter. 

 

Again this is not "cheating", in the end people will choose between performance and battery life and judge for themselves. 

TDP is both performance and battery life. If it thermal throttles then you get less performance. If not, you get less battery life.

The way each laptop handles this would indicate it matters a lot - even to consumers. And it does vary from device to device, so it's difficult to make an informed decision. However the TDP number alone will tell you what kind of device you're getting.

But the thing is: Intel's data sheet should not be misleading. You can't argue it's a non-issue to mislead. That's just asking for trouble and shows the apathy I mentioned.

 

So you're still not convincing anyone that TDP doesn't matter. 

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Just now, asus killer said:

you read that article and you're conclusion is:"Android users generally are in the lower income brackets". 

Because that is the only conclusion that can logically be drawn from that data. Literally everything points to it. If you have any evidence and Android is popular amount the wealthy more than it is popular amount the poor, please tell me. 

 

The only case where that argument can hold any water at all is if you isolate markets to 1st world countries and once you do that you start seeing closer to 50/50 market share but the same concept applies. People with more money buy more expensive things. 

 

Can we stop derailing the thread now?


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1 minute ago, Trixanity said:

TDP is both performance and battery life. If it thermal throttles then you get less performance. If not, you get less battery life.

The way each laptop handles this would indicate it matters a lot - even to consumers. And it does vary from device to device, so it's difficult to make an informed decision. However the TDP number alone will tell you what kind of device you're getting.

But the thing is: Intel's data sheet should not be misleading. You can't argue it's a non-issue to mislead. That's just asking for trouble and shows the apathy I mentioned.

 

So you're still not convincing anyone that TDP doesn't matter. 

You still are putting way to much weight on TDP. TDP is most definitely not performance and battery life. Look at the market and real world usage. 15w chips that suck ass at battery life and 45w that are good at it. TDP means nothing to the final product. 

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4 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

You can't measure profits on those.

What the.....

 

Apple makes their own SoCs, profits are measured by their units sales (how many iPhones they ship) which are the best in the industry across the board. 


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16 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

What the.....

 

Apple makes their own SoCs, profits are measured by their units sales (how many iPhones they ship) which are the best in the industry across the board. 

How much profit does an A series SoC make per sold chip? In fact what is the tray cost of an A11? How much does it cost to produce? If you can't post these numbers, you can't measure the profitability of the chip. 

If you measure the profits on the SoC based on their iPhone profits then that's very wrong. As I said, Apple would make larger profits outsourcing their chips. At best you could guesstimate a BoM cost but it does not really show any meaningful data on how the chip alone is profitable.

19 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

You still are putting way to much weight on TDP. TDP is most definitely not performance and battery life. Look at the market and real world usage. 15w chips that suck ass at battery life and 45w that are good at it. TDP means nothing to the final product. 

That's down to hardware/software tuning. There is a reason these processors are segmented as they are. Otherwise there wouldn't be any difference. TDP is not the absolute be all end all but it's pretty damn important to know what to expect from the chip; that goes for all parties. You're discounting TDP out of hand obviously. 

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1 hour ago, mynameisjuan said:

Because it doesnt. Wattage shouldnt matter to consumers. If it says it runs at 4.5 but runs at 12 then you will notice that in real world performance with battery. 

 

Wattage just doesnt matter for conusmers.

The average consumer is going to look at what it says for the power consumption and take it at face value so it really does matter from a marketing perspective. They are able to make it seems like they have better power consumption than a competitor even if they don't necessarily do. 

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I want to know what happens when you give an ARM processor like an entire 100 watts to play with.


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50 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Because that is the only conclusion that can logically be drawn from that data. Literally everything points to it. If you have any evidence and Android is popular amount the wealthy more than it is popular amount the poor, please tell me. 

 

The only case where that argument can hold any water at all is if you isolate markets to 1st world countries and once you do that you start seeing closer to 50/50 market share but the same concept applies. People with more money buy more expensive things. 

 

Can we stop derailing the thread now?

Seeing as the poor outnumber the wealthy it would be hard to even determine something like that. Anyways it comes down to preference tbh as I know alot of people who are upper middle class that use Samsung galaxy s and note phones over iPhones. The way you come off with your argument is that android is for poor people and it makes you sound like a pretentious prick tbh. 

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4 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

I want to know what happens when you give an ARM processor like an entire 100 watts to play with.

Yeah, we are so used to seeing these things packed into passively cooled phones. I wonder what can be done if we crank up the TDP and give them active cooling. 


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6 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

I want to know what happens when you give an ARM processor like an entire 100 watts to play with.

It doesn't scale up well. Only point to upping TDP that high is to up core count, as we've seen with Opteron A SOCs.


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BGA isn't a socket. It's soldering the SOC to the board, like in basically all phones and laptops.


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20 minutes ago, TheRandomness said:

BGA isn't a socket. It's soldering the SOC to the board, like in basically all phones and laptops.

agreed.

The best I can see them doing is doing a pins-on-the-cpu design.

Besides AMD chips, I've opened up some laptops and seen this before. It's probably the most compact socketed method afaik.

 

But really for ARM -- the manufacturers probably wont update bios'es anyway for different chips so why bother? just BGA solder them things on there.


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1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

Yeah, we are so used to seeing these things packed into passively cooled phones. I wonder what can be done if we crank up the TDP and give them active cooling. 

RISC processors like ARM by design will always have lower IPC than CISC processors like x86-64. So a 100W intel processor will MUCH BETTER than a 100W ARM processor.

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14 minutes ago, avg123 said:

RISC processors like ARM by design will always have lower IPC than CISC processors like x86-64. So a 100W intel processor will MUCH BETTER than a 100W ARM processor.

You don’t need x86-64 level CPUs or performance for what these devices are trying to do. They just need good enough performance. 

 

The MacBook is a prime candidate for a processor like this. Those machines and Windows laptops are designed to do basic things like email, web browsing, typing, and etc. 

 

You don’t actually need a lot of IPC for that. 


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Intel plz bring the atom back... I want a cheap and shitty laptop with good battery without needing a shitty and limited emulation layer :( I don't care if my phone is faster I still want them


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6 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Why should the market care this time around? The sacrifices to performance for a measily extra 5 hours (supposedly) and a "constant" internet connection haven't been worth it to any market in the past.

At some point the performance will be there for the market to care -- people are already willing to use tablets instead of laptops in part due to the battery life. It's just a question of if we're there yet, and the answer is more than likely no (I do however wonder how something like lubuntu or Arch would perform though).


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2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's just a question of if we're there yet, and the answer is more than likely no (I do however wonder how something like lubuntu or Arch would perform though).

Unless Apple opens access to their SoCs or AMD's Ryzen magic transfers to their next ARM venture, the answer is a stout no.

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

people are already willing to use tablets instead of laptops in part due to the battery life.

Were willing, laptops have caught up and surpassed. The only tablet makers relevant today are Microsoft and Apple, one using powerful x86 CPUs and the other using lightweight APIs and a (relatively) minimal OS.

 

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

At some point the performance will be there for the market to care -

That's likely not going to happen with ARM and x86 emulation on ARM.


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