EK Cryofuel Bubbles For Days

[r34lj4k3]

So, I just finished my rebuild of my system in order to upgrade into a much more robust (and quiet) liquid cooling setup. Everything is built and works flawlessly...except the ek cryofuel coolant that I mixed correctly (the first thing I double checked) and it immediately followed a 30hr run with primochill sysprep and a full gallon of water flush through the system (the loop is only slightly more than a liter total with a full res). Neither the sysprep nor the straight distilled water had this problem when I was running them through the loop.

 

If I turn the system off and let it settle, the bubbles leave but come back within 15 seconds of the pump starting up. I've checked all the fittings and they're tightened and securely on the tubing. No leaks anywhere, the system doesn't lose liquid over time.

 

The system performance is great but every now and then I can hear the pump start to grind (it's easy to tell, it's the only noise this thing makes).

 

Never encountered this before with liquid cooling...a google search shows me that some others have had this happen but only very rarely.

 

First pic is with the EK cryofuel and distilled, second is with sysprep and distilled.

[W-L]

56 minutes ago, r34lj4k3 said:

-SNIP-

What components are you using in your loop first, it sounds almost like you have a seal weeping in air causing excessive bubbling since you said it doesn't occur once off. 

[r34lj4k3]

9 minutes ago, W-L said:

What components are you using in your loop first, it sounds almost like you have a seal weeping in air causing excessive bubbling since you said it doesn't occur once off. 

Didn't happen with the SysPrep, but I've got all EK rads, tubing, pump/res, and the monoblock, all bitspower fittings. 

[W-L]

8 minutes ago, r34lj4k3 said:

Didn't happen with the SysPrep, but I've got all EK rads, tubing, pump/res, and the monoblock, all bitspower fittings. 

Can you take a photo of the rear section to see how everything is connected, from that list I don't see anything that would cause a problem. 

[r34lj4k3]

9 minutes ago, W-L said:

Can you take a photo of the rear section to see how everything is connected, from that list I don't see anything that would cause a problem. 

This was mid build some time, but the liquid cooling hasn't changed. 

[W-L]

1 minute ago, r34lj4k3 said:

This was mid build some time, but the liquid cooling hasn't changed. 

Overall everything looks alright, I'd recommend to tie down those tubes or makes some mounts to secure them but that's not related to the bubbling issue. 

 

It's hard to see from the photo but did you install an internal tube to prevent splashing and possibly bubbles, as your returning your fluid at the top of the res. 

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-res-x3-internal-tube-12-16-140mm

[r34lj4k3]

50 minutes ago, W-L said:

Overall everything looks alright, I'd recommend to tie down those tubes or makes some mounts to secure them but that's not related to the bubbling issue. 

 

It's hard to see from the photo but did you install an internal tube to prevent splashing and possibly bubbles, as your returning your fluid at the top of the res. 

https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-res-x3-internal-tube-12-16-140mm

Yeah, everything is secured. Not worried about anything on the technical side. I asked EK about doing this specifically beforehand and they said it should be fine without the straw. I'd have to buy the multiport res top to add the straw because the stock one isn't thick enough to have something screw in from the bottom and top. I really don't wanna do that because that would involve re-doing the tubing to make the length going into the back of the case work. The flow itself seems to flow right in since the surface tension never really gets a chance to happen once the loop starts going. 

 

I am starting to think I'll just use some primochill reboot and then use primochill fluid. The distilled water was working perfectly, sigh.

[W-L]

9 minutes ago, r34lj4k3 said:

Yeah, everything is secured. Not worried about anything on the technical side. I asked EK about doing this specifically beforehand and they said it should be fine without the straw. I'd have to buy the multiport res top to add the straw because the stock one isn't thick enough to have something screw in from the bottom and top. I really don't wanna do that because that would involve re-doing the tubing to make the length going into the back of the case work. The flow itself seems to flow right in since the surface tension never really gets a chance to happen once the loop starts going. 

 

I am starting to think I'll just use some primochill reboot and then use primochill fluid. The distilled water was working perfectly, sigh.

Just to do a test, if you drain the loop and run normal distilled water see if it causing any bubbling such as this. If it's the same then it's very possible due to the lack of the internal tube. 

[r34lj4k3]

1 hour ago, W-L said:

Just to do a test, if you drain the loop and run normal distilled water see if it causing any bubbling such as this. If it's the same then it's very possible due to the lack of the internal tube. 

I mean I kinda already did that, that's why I kept referencing the time I had distilled and sysprep in it.

[Dschijn]

Is the inlet on top and above the water surface? By that water will splash into the res and make bubbles. Maybe run the pump a bit slower?

[r34lj4k3]

5 hours ago, Dschijn said:

Is the inlet on top and above the water surface? By that water will splash into the res and make bubbles. Maybe run the pump a bit slower?

Please read before commenting.

[W-L]

8 hours ago, r34lj4k3 said:

I mean I kinda already did that, that's why I kept referencing the time I had distilled and sysprep in it.

It’s possible that something is reacting with the sysprep but my suspicion would be the lack of the internal tube, since this keeps occurring just after the pump starts. 

[Dschijn]

3 hours ago, r34lj4k3 said:

Please read before commenting.

There is no indication in answering my question in any post. It still could be a problem... but hey, you seem to already have ruled that out.

[Lathlaer]

1 hour ago, Dschijn said:

There is no indication in answering my question in any post. It still could be a problem... but hey, you seem to already have ruled that out.

He means that he went through other liquids in the same loop without having this problem so any mechanical cause is unlikely.

[For Science!]

5 hours ago, r34lj4k3 said:

-

Well, since you have a closed system, there is only a fixed amount of air that needs to be removed to achieve a completely air-free system (which is of course the aim of bleeding a loop). The reason why your coolant looks murky in the first photo I assume is because of these tiny air bubbles rushing through your system, not finding a place to accumulate.

 

To aid this process I would recommend you to slow your pump down slightly and make sure that the air has some time to accumulate in the reservoir, which you need to then top-off with more fluid. Not having an intake tube on the reservoir will make this process more difficult since air will always try to work its way up that top tube unless you keep the whole thing submerged.

 

Cryo-Fuel has different properities when it comes to surface tension than water and smaller bubbles survive for longer.

[r34lj4k3]

14 hours ago, W-L said:

It’s possible that something is reacting with the sysprep but my suspicion would be the lack of the internal tube, since this keeps occurring just after the pump starts. 

I was leaning towards this as well but when I turn the system off the bubbles eventually settle out so I don't think it's a chemical reaction kinda of thing.

 

9 hours ago, For Science! said:

Well, since you have a closed system, there is only a fixed amount of air that needs to be removed to achieve a completely air-free system (which is of course the aim of bleeding a loop). The reason why your coolant looks murky in the first photo I assume is because of these tiny air bubbles rushing through your system, not finding a place to accumulate.

 

To aid this process I would recommend you to slow your pump down slightly and make sure that the air has some time to accumulate in the reservoir, which you need to then top-off with more fluid. Not having an intake tube on the reservoir will make this process more difficult since air will always try to work its way up that top tube unless you keep the whole thing submerged.

 

Cryo-Fuel has different properities when it comes to surface tension than water and smaller bubbles survive for longer.

Yeah, I know about the bleeding but I don't think I'll be able to get anymore than I already have out. I brimmed the res with the fitting already on top and wet mounted the top tube. Rotating this beast is not really feasible with one person. The bubbles are why I named this post the way I did, haha. I was just wondering if anyone else had a similar situation and what they did about it.

I have this pump: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xres-140-revo-d5-rgb-pwm-incl-sl-pump but I haven't quite figured out how to control it via the pwm header on the rampage. I didn't install the fan xpert or whatever it is software (all my fans are on corsair commander pros) and haven't really messed with the BIOS. Anyone know off the top of their head?

I was pretty sure it's the cryofuel, I mostly came here wondering if this was a normal issue and if so, what can be done to minimize this? I think I may try another coolant if temporarily slowing down the pump doesn't help.

 

Thanks for the help so far!

[For Science!]

4 hours ago, r34lj4k3 said:

-

You should plug the fan header coming off your pump into any header on the motherboard (for the case of simplicity, anything but the AIO_PUMP header). Then go into the BIOS and click on Q-Fan to get the GUI version of the fan control software, find the header which you plugged your pump into (say, CHA_FAN1) and then choose PWM mode. Then control the curve to slow the pump down. Alternatively this can be done through the BIOS in text mode by going to Monitoring --> Q-fan setup.

 

Another coolant may get you lucky, but the root cause is most probably the lack of an internal tube as you say.

[r34lj4k3]

18 hours ago, For Science! said:

You should plug the fan header coming off your pump into any header on the motherboard (for the case of simplicity, anything but the AIO_PUMP header). Then go into the BIOS and click on Q-Fan to get the GUI version of the fan control software, find the header which you plugged your pump into (say, CHA_FAN1) and then choose PWM mode. Then control the curve to slow the pump down. Alternatively this can be done through the BIOS in text mode by going to Monitoring --> Q-fan setup.

 

Another coolant may get you lucky, but the root cause is most probably the lack of an internal tube as you say.

Thanks for the quick walk-through! I have my pump plugged into the w_pump1 header in the bottom right but I'm pretty sure I can pwm it in the bios. I know it has a pwm readout in there but I wasn't sure about the ability to control from there. I'll look tonight.

[For Science!]

8 hours ago, r34lj4k3 said:

Thanks for the quick walk-through! I have my pump plugged into the w_pump1 header in the bottom right but I'm pretty sure I can pwm it in the bios. I know it has a pwm readout in there but I wasn't sure about the ability to control from there. I'll look tonight.

Yes, you should be able to, although you will probably have to set an additional setting "allow W_pump control" or something along those lines. USually W_Pump headers are set to 100% all the time (which is why I suggested using a diferent header for simplicity)

[r34lj4k3]

On 6/27/2018 at 5:10 AM, For Science! said:

Yes, you should be able to, although you will probably have to set an additional setting "allow W_pump control" or something along those lines. USually W_Pump headers are set to 100% all the time (which is why I suggested using a diferent header for simplicity)

Great news! Setting to the pump to a lower speed has reduced the bubbles immensely and completely mitigated the micro-bubbles. 

It was weird that I had to scroll all the way to the bottom of the monitor tab, enable the pwm wpump management and then set my profile there. I would think that you could set all of that from the QFan F6 menu. 

 

Either way, great success! I still may change out the fluid...kinda torn on trying another one now.

[Dschijn]

any idea why a higher pump speed does create the bubbles?

[SmashinMachine]

@r34lj4k3

I had this issue in my build too

I used lnlet port Port on reservoir’s top. This part is not intended to be used as inlet port

 

It looked like a lemonade

If you read the manual

there stays

Then I changed the inlet port

Everything was OK

Maybe u can use an internal tube with a multiport top to prevent these problem

 

[For Science!]

8 hours ago, r34lj4k3 said:

-

Thats great, glad I was able to help. I suppose now the air is just not being pushed around anymore and has acumulated somewhere. Perhaps in your next annual maintenance, you could consider getting an inlet tube which I still think is the root cause of the recurring bubbles.

[r34lj4k3]

any idea why a higher pump speed does create the bubbles?

I'm pretty sure because a higher pump speed sucks in the larger bubbles, smashes them at 8800rpm and then sends it through the loop...and the process just keeps repeating until you get micro-bubbles.

 

14 hours ago, SmashinMachine said:

-snip-

I saw that and sent an email to EK specifically asking why since they have a multi-port top that's purpose built for this and they said because it would be hard to fill. I solved that problem, so I didn't think I would have an issue. I wouldn't have designed my loops this way if they hadn't advised me that there's no real problem with it. 

 

Anyone know if bitspower makes a black sparkle, straight rotary fitting? I've been googling but haven't found it. So, just a regular fitting, that's also rotary.

 

11 hours ago, For Science! said:

Thats great, glad I was able to help. I suppose now the air is just not being pushed around anymore and has acumulated somewhere. Perhaps in your next annual maintenance, you could consider getting an inlet tube which I still think is the root cause of the recurring bubbles.

I'm pretty sure there aren't any air bubbles trapped anywhere. The bubbles were so small they were easily pushed around and don't congeal/rise to the top of the res for about 15mins so when the pump stops pushing them through, it's just replaced with fluid. I may add a straw to the top inlet but to do that I'll have to buy the multiport top, the standard top does not have enough thread length to screw something into the top and bottom of it. Not sure if you saw my hardline runs...but they aren't just the same height going towards the top...they're also level, so I don't want to redo that process over again if at all possible.