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linuxovios

Linus should make a review for pure sinewave UPS

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Posted · Original PosterOP

When someone wants to buy a UPS there are a lot of question to be answered:

 

- How many VA ?

- Is modified sinewave ok or pure sinewave is essential?

- high priced APC & Eaton or more reasonably priced powerwalker and cyberpower

- There are no reviews online which show oscilloscope outputs so the buyer can decide which ups should buy.

 

Linus, there is an opportunity for a review here, I think....

 

Please like this post, so mods forward it to Linus Media Group reviewers.

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In the context of electronic computer equipment (which is what is forum is about) I find it baffling UPS/PSU hybrids are not prevalent today.

Because battery stored charge is released as DC which is what electronics run off. Having to convert to and from AC is redundant and inefficient.

Looking at laptops make me sad


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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51 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

In the context of electronic computer equipment (which is what is forum is about) I find it baffling UPS/PSU hybrids are not prevalent today.

Because battery stored charge is released as DC which is what electronics run off. Having to convert to and from AC is redundant and inefficient.

Looking at laptops make me sad

Mmmm...maybe because UPS lead acid cells have to be replaced more often than a good PSU in the first place, and also size constraints.  I guess if you had an external PSU with the cables running to the computer...but man that would be messy and ugly.  No real point to it.  Easiest way to implement it would be a different PSU standard with a modular drop in battery.

 

But there wouldn't be enough demand for it to justify the development, IMO.

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3 minutes ago, PineyCreek said:

Mmmm...maybe because UPS lead acid cells have to be replaced more often than a good PSU in the first place, and also size constraints.  I guess if you had an external PSU with the cables running to the computer...but man that would be messy and ugly.  No real point to it.  Easiest way to implement it would be a different PSU standard with a modular drop in battery.

 

But there wouldn't be enough demand for it to justify the development, IMO.

Quite the contrary

You might think its just slapping a battery into the PSU, adding cost on top of existing componentry.

But in fact the absence of the need to convert means componentry can be vastly simplified, to the point where the PSU is basically a smart battery and can be entirely replaced without too much cost or wastage.


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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Just now, huilun02 said:

Quite the contrary

You might think its just slapping a battery into the PSU, adding cost on top of existing componentry.

But in fact the absence of the need to convert means componentry can be vastly simplified, to the point where the PSU is basically a smart battery and can be entirely replaced without too much cost or wastage.

Ah, so have the AC -> DC apparatus outside then connected directly to the 'PSU'? Say with a standardized connector?

 

Mmm...even so, it would only be viable if the battery/PSU could be swapped without having to disconnect cabling from the PSU.  Extra hassle if it's not just drop in.

 

If you had to do that in the first place, why have a PSU in the computer at all.  Just have a hub for the internal connections to plug into, turned into a standardized connector on the back, then run to a UPS/PSU combo unit outside?  Or is that what you're saying?

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2 minutes ago, PineyCreek said:

Ah, so have the AC -> DC apparatus outside then connected directly to the 'PSU'? Say with a standardized connector?

 

Mmm...even so, it would only be viable if the battery/PSU could be swapped without having to disconnect cabling from the PSU.  Extra hassle if it's not just drop in.

 

If you had to do that in the first place, why have a PSU in the computer at all.  Just have a hub for the internal connections to plug into, turned into a standardized connector on the back, then run to a UPS/PSU combo unit outside?  Or is that what you're saying?

Yes at that point it no longer matters if the 'PSU' is inside or outside the case. We can have nothing but a panel in the case to plug our 24/8/6 cables into. 


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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1 minute ago, huilun02 said:

Yes at that point it no longer matters if the 'PSU' is inside or outside the case. We can have nothing but a panel in the case to plug our 24/8/6 cables into. 

Mmmm...I can see that working with enough failsafes in the external unit, yes.

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1 hour ago, huilun02 said:

In the context of electronic computer equipment (which is what is forum is about) I find it baffling UPS/PSU hybrids are not prevalent today.

Because battery stored charge is released as DC which is what electronics run off. Having to convert to and from AC is redundant and inefficient.

Looking at laptops make me sad

And what would you do with PC without monitor image?

I don't think average user would enjoy or value that greatly.

So we're down to needing same thing also for monitor.

And what about possible external accessoried/devices?

Especially considering fad being no 5.25" bays for anything.

So we're fast running to adding more complexity and cost to lots of things.

 

And while additional conversions have their power losses, I think you're greatly overestimating them.

Modern PSU can be up to 95% efficient in AC to DC conversion, especially if having only one voltage to output.

And would expect good UPSes to perform not much worser in DC to AC, while having easy time in having bigger battery capacity.

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7 minutes ago, EsaT said:

 

Know what happens when you unplug a laptop from the mains? The size of existing PSUs would let it store way more charge than laptop batteries. Not that there will be a size constraint at all if the PSU/UPS hybrid can be made to sit outside the case.


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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2 hours ago, linuxovios said:

- How many VA ?

- Is modified sinewave ok or pure sinewave is essential?

- high priced APC & Eaton or more reasonably priced powerwalker and cyberpower

- There are no reviews online which show oscilloscope outputs so the buyer can decide which ups should buy.

Volt-amperes are now marketing BS.

They mattered only when things lacked PFC and had high reactive current/power component.

Only thing what matters are watts, which shouldn't be less than 60% of VA rating.

Power factor below that is nothing but scamming buyers with bloated artificial totally useless marketing numbers.

 

Any "modified/simulated/stepped approximation" what ever means something, which doesn't have much to do with actual sinewave... Unless you're either awfully tired or have very poor vision/dirty glasses.

https://www.hardwareinsights.com/database-of-ups-output-waveforms/

Though the actual danger/risk in it is that some old/bad UPSes have crazy high peak voltages even over 400V.

For comparison 230V sinewave has 325V peak voltage.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Know what happens when you unplug a laptop from the mains? The size of existing PSUs would let it store way more charge than laptop batteries. Not that there will be a size constraint at all if the PSU/UPS hybrid can be made to sit outside the case.

Do you know how much less power laptops consume than any high end desktop PC?

And there isn't any real loose space inside PSUs.

Besides battery there would be also need for little more electronics over that in normal PSU.

Also batteries hate high temperatures, so keeping battery cool would need space.

 

And if there's anyway another box on desk, then it could be as well proper UPS, instead of some compromised hybrid thing.

Besides cable to "connector panel" of case would need some good thickness to minimize power losses...

And prevent voltage regulation from sucking donkey balls.

 

Any idea creating more problems than solving them isn't usually good idea.

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Wait... Linus does reviews?  ;)

 

Maybe a technological overview.  That would be cool.  Could answer a lot of the questions that come up in the forums.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

Wait... Linus does reviews?  ;)

 

Maybe a technological overview.  That would be cool.  Could answer a lot of the questions that come up in the forums.

 

 

 

Actually, some product reviews would be nice. Many manufacturers use their own terms for certain things, like stepped square wave and some clarification would be beneficial for many. 


Jeannie

 

As long as anyone is oppressed, no one will be safe and free.

One has to be proactive, not reactive, to ensure the safety of one's data so backup your data! And RAID is NOT a backup!

 

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10 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Actually, some product reviews would be nice. Many manufacturers use their own terms for certain things, like stepped square wave and some clarification would be beneficial for many. 

Not a bad suggestion. But then you'd want an actual reviewer to review them. I'm sure Linus is perfectly competent, but at the end of the day, the number of views on a UPS review video would not be up to Linus's requirements. 

 

Also, UPSs are very regional with regional brands.  Your audience for a particular UPS won't be very large. 

 

A technical overview can explain things like the different terms for different waveform shapes, VA ratings versus Watts, etc. 

 

 

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