What Kind of Server to Build

[r0otctrl]

I just found out that my web hosting provider will not allow me to install Selenium for scraping data off of the web, and there's no way I'm going to pay anywhere from $40 to upwards of $200 a month for a VPS or dedicated server, so I'm thinking about buying new parts or reusing old ones to build a server of my own.

I do have an old computer which I could use. All I'd need is another hard drive. The shitty thing about this is that the computer was built years ago to game on.The motherboard only supports SATAII 3Gb/s and DDR3 1333MHz. The specifications are as follows:

 

MSI P55-GD65 Motherboard

Intel i5-750

4GB of 1333MHz Ram

500W, 550W, or 600W Power Supply (that came with the case)

HIS ATI Radeon HD 5850

 

Although the motherboard's lack of support for modern hardware may not warrant building a completely new server from scratch, especially since money's kind of tight right now, I'd still consider it if the setup and price were right.

I have absolutely zero experience building a system that's sole purpose is to be a server, so that's where you guys come in. I'm planning on using it primarily for web hosting and to automate web crawling and screen scraping scripts that I've written. Obviously storage, computing power, and memory are critical.

 

Does anybody have any input, tips, advice? Any specific builds one would like to suggest?

Thanks

[StackUnderflow]

Probably overkill but here's a nice 16 core (32 thread) server build for cheap (I personally run 10 VMs off these with 4 threads per VM with 64GB RAM, it is wonderfully snappy).

https://www.techspot.com/review/1155-affordable-dual-xeon-pc/

 

If you aren't running VMs, your current setup has probably the same compute power as a middle-of-the-road VM (VPS). I'd suggest looking into AWS spot pricing and seeing if its actually worth it building your own if you aren't out to 'build a server' rather than just use it. You don't need a graphics card for a server (unless you specifically want to use one for a specific purpose (TensorFlow, etc..))

 

If you do build a server though, don't go to skylake+ (with the exception of maybe some Xeon Ds). The RAM prices are atrocious. You can get old server RAM for like $2/GB for DDR3 but DDR4 is like $10/GB or something ridiculous like that.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention you can get some old R710s off eBay for $100. Dual CPU, 8 core 16 threads, redundant power supplies, and like 24 DIMM slots/8-10 HDD slots/4 NICs in the same generation as your old computer. But good luck sleeping or keeping your sanity near those fans.

[AskTJ]

Buy an old server off eBay, something that has an X5650 and at least 16GB of ram. They can be found for around pretty cheaply if you keep your eye out and do research. They perform great, and will be great if you can find a dual CPU system.

[r0otctrl]

3 hours ago, StackUnderflow said:

Probably overkill but here's a nice 16 core (32 thread) server build for cheap (I personally run 10 VMs off these with 4 threads per VM with 64GB RAM, it is wonderfully snappy).

https://www.techspot.com/review/1155-affordable-dual-xeon-pc/

 

If you aren't running VMs, your current setup has probably the same compute power as a middle-of-the-road VM (VPS). I'd suggest looking into AWS spot pricing and seeing if its actually worth it building your own if you aren't out to 'build a server' rather than just use it. You don't need a graphics card for a server (unless you specifically want to use one for a specific purpose (TensorFlow, etc..))

 

If you do build a server though, don't go to skylake+ (with the exception of maybe some Xeon Ds). The RAM prices are atrocious. You can get old server RAM for like $2/GB for DDR3 but DDR4 is like $10/GB or something ridiculous like that.

 

EDIT: Forgot to mention you can get some old R710s off eBay for $100. Dual CPU, 8 core 16 threads, redundant power supplies, and like 24 DIMM slots/8-10 HDD slots/4 NICs in the same generation as your old computer. But good luck sleeping or keeping your sanity near those fans.

That chip is currently priced at $216 CAD right now. Well, that's the best deal I could find, which is a far cry from 2 for less $100 (though I'm assuming that was USD -- still a far cry despite that). Sounds like a promising rig. I just wish I had some more cash flow to slap it together.

The AWS is an interesting suggestion. Today was actually the first time I've ever looked into it. One free year? $0.20 per million requests? At least for the Lambda option. Much more reasonable than I expected. This might actually be the most practical approach. I mean, why not use the free year?

Thanks for your input.

[r0otctrl]

3 hours ago, AskTJ said:

Buy an old server off eBay, something that has an X5650 and at least 16GB of ram. They can be found for around pretty cheaply if you keep your eye out and do research. They perform great, and will be great if you can find a dual CPU system.

You mind sharing any good deals you've come across as of lately, preferably in CAD?

[StackUnderflow]

1 hour ago, r0otctrl said:

That chip is currently priced at $216 CAD right now. Well, that's the best deal I could find, which is a far cry from 2 for less $100 (though I'm assuming that was USD -- still a far cry despite that). Sounds like a promising rig. I just wish I had some more cash flow to slap it together.

The AWS is an interesting suggestion. Today was actually the first time I've ever looked into it. One free year? $0.20 per million requests? At least for the Lambda option. Much more reasonable than I expected. This might actually be the most practical approach. I mean, why not use the free year?

Thanks for your input.

Yeah, if you aren't building a server in the interests of building a server, I'd go with AWS. There's only a few scenarios where a dedibox in your room is going to be better (I get free gigabit up and down with a static IP from my dorm 2 hops away from the west coast exchange, so that's one of those scenarios, if you have a dynamic IP that changes often and not much upload bandwidth from an ISP that may block ports than obviously that's not worth it, and even then I'd have to get a 4U for noise reduction before thinking about sleeping with it even in the closet).

 

Believe it or not the old hardware actually went up in price since that article was published (in CPU and motherboard, the old mobo went up to $400 new from $300s, it's crazy) It's more expensive to get now so I'm glad I got it when I got it. But you can still prawl around eBay and find a pair of E5-2650s for about $100 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Intel-Xeon-E5-2650-CPUs-2-0GHz-8-Core-SR0KQ-Socket-2011/302772707266?epid=28011375144&hash=item467ea8dfc2:g:SBEAAOSwuHFbEF68:sc:USPSFirstClass!91125!US!-1). 

 

I got a R710 shipped from NY to CA for less than $100 (the shipping was more of that $100 than the actual machine). Although it only had 4GB of RAM, but RAM is cheap at $2/GB for DDR3. I did have to win an auction war though, typically to get the same setup I did for buy it now would be twice as much. Something like this listing (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Poweredge-R710-2-X-SIX-CORE-2-40GHZ-E5645-8GB-MEMORY-2-X-72GB-10K-SERVER/132661973709?hash=item1ee34512cd:g:tkUAAOSw-4BXZDg1) or this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Poweredge-R510-2-X-QUAD-CORE-2-40GHZ-E5620-8GB-MEMORY-H700-12-BAY/132663257744?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D52570%26meid%3D65c9910a5cb741bc9bbeede4352f3fa8%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D132661973709%26itm%3D132663257744&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851). Just search eBay for Dell R710 and sort by price, there's lots of e-recycling companies that get these from IT departments all over for free and are turning a small profit with them. Beware of loud fans though. And make sure it can take 3.5in harddrives or else you're gonna have to spend alot on 2.5in SAS drives (or SSDs), oh and also, get an HBA card if you get an old server the old dell SAS backplanes only do RAID.

 

[r0otctrl]

48 minutes ago, StackUnderflow said:

Yeah, if you aren't building a server in the interests of building a server, I'd go with AWS. There's only a few scenarios where a dedibox in your room is going to be better (I get free gigabit up and down with a static IP from my dorm 2 hops away from the west coast exchange, so that's one of those scenarios, if you have a dynamic IP that changes often and not much upload bandwidth from an ISP that may block ports than obviously that's not worth it, and even then I'd have to get a 4U for noise reduction before thinking about sleeping with it even in the closet).

 

Believe it or not the old hardware actually went up in price since that article was published (in CPU and motherboard, the old mobo went up to $400 new from $300s, it's crazy) It's more expensive to get now so I'm glad I got it when I got it. But you can still prawl around eBay and find a pair of E5-2650s for about $100 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Pair-of-Intel-Xeon-E5-2650-CPUs-2-0GHz-8-Core-SR0KQ-Socket-2011/302772707266?epid=28011375144&hash=item467ea8dfc2:g:SBEAAOSwuHFbEF68:sc:USPSFirstClass!91125!US!-1). 

 

I got a R710 shipped from NY to CA for less than $100 (the shipping was more of that $100 than the actual machine). Although it only had 4GB of RAM, but RAM is cheap at $2/GB for DDR3. I did have to win an auction war though, typically to get the same setup I did for buy it now would be twice as much. Something like this listing (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Poweredge-R710-2-X-SIX-CORE-2-40GHZ-E5645-8GB-MEMORY-2-X-72GB-10K-SERVER/132661973709?hash=item1ee34512cd:g:tkUAAOSw-4BXZDg1) or this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Poweredge-R510-2-X-QUAD-CORE-2-40GHZ-E5620-8GB-MEMORY-H700-12-BAY/132663257744?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D52570%26meid%3D65c9910a5cb741bc9bbeede4352f3fa8%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D10%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D132661973709%26itm%3D132663257744&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851). Just search eBay for Dell R710 and sort by price, there's lots of e-recycling companies that get these from IT departments all over for free and are turning a small profit with them. Beware of loud fans though. And make sure it can take 3.5in harddrives or else you're gonna have to spend alot on 2.5in SAS drives (or SSDs), oh and also, get an HBA card if you get an old server the old dell SAS backplanes only do RAID.

 

For the most part I'm a complete n00b when it comes to hardware.The software side is more my thing, so forgive me if my questions are blatantly naive.

So E52670 > E52650 > R710 in computing power?

How capable is a dual setup of those R710 chips? Can you give me an idea in terms of web hosting and serving? And or compared to the i5-750 that I currently have?

Does ebay.com even ship to Canada? (I know amazon.com won't for instance.)

[StackUnderflow]

1 hour ago, r0otctrl said:

For the most part I'm a complete n00b when it comes to hardware.The software side is more my thing, so forgive me if my questions are blatantly naive.

So E52670 > E52650 > R710 in computing power?

How capable is a dual setup of those R710 chips? Can you give me an idea in terms of web hosting and serving? And or compared to the i5-750 that I currently have?

Does ebay.com even ship to Canada? (I know amazon.com won't for instance.)

Generally the progression of intel CPUs over the past couple years went like this (for the dual CPU setup which is the sweet spot for homelabs):

(X|E)55XX (4 core, Nehalem) -> (X|E)56XX (4/6 core, Westmere) -> E5-26XX (8 core, Sandy Bridge) -> E5-26XXv2(8/10 core, Ivy Bridge) ->E5-26XXv3 (12+ core, Haswell, DDR4 requirement)->after this point it'll be too expensive for hobbyists.

 

Note the core number is not the thread number, server CPUs will usually have hyperthreading although I leave that disabled most of the time. Also, since these are dual socket CPUs, multiply that core number for 2 for the actual number of physical cores, and by 4 for the number of threads. The Nehalem and Westmere CPUs share a socket, the Sandy and Ivy Bridge CPUs share a socket.

 

In the first 2 in the series, X is performance and E is the "normal" SKUs. The XXs generally represent 2 numbers, and the higher the numbers are usually the higher clocked/more cores the chip is. In Sandy Bridge and later, they got rid of the X and E labels and just used the 2 numbers at the end.

 

Your i5-750 is a Nehalem quad core CPU clocked at 2.66GHz (Lynnfield to be specific). meaning it is on par with a X5560ish level performance. However, the X5560 is better for server use because it is a dual socket CPU (meaning it can do 8 cores, 16 threads while the core i5 can only do 4 cores, 4 threads), supports ECC RAM, and has hyperthreading enabled, on top of more PCIe lanes and 144GB max memory (compared to the 16GB for the desktop chip).

 

The R710s are a popular series of Dell prebuilt servers that usually dwells around the (X|E)55XX and 56XX eras. I had a Dell R710 with 2 X5550 CPUs. If you build a white box, Sandy Bridge is the most economical. But even the worst Dell prebuilt R710s ($100 on eBay) will be around 3X better performance (2 of those CPUs with hyperthreading and unforgivingly loud cooling) than the i5-750 with 4GB RAM. A E5-26whatever will be miles better because it has 2x the number of cores as well as newer instructions like AVX and maybe some newer video codecs built in. 

 

But you got to ask yourself if you actually need all this power. Because at the end of the day, even the R710s were designed to host multiple VMs and it doesn't sound like you actually need multiple VMs if a shared hosting service was enough for you before. I'd seriously suggest looking into AWS or something like a cheap Kimsufi box ($15ish a month for a dedicated box with server infrastructure) before committing to putting a server in your bedroom. I was able to simultaneously host 3 modded minecraft servers, and 4 srcds instances with 10s-low 100s of concurrent connections with 2 X5550s and 64GB RAM in an R710 without it breaking a sweat. Only when running school stuff that's designed to max out your CPU usage for days is there actually a benefit to switching to the Sandy Bridge architecture (that and the silence/low power consumption). At that point, it'll be your internet connection that's the limiting factor. 

 

I never bothered shipping anything to Canada (I used to live there), I'm in the states now and shipping is easier, it'll generally be up to the eBay seller if they want to ship internationally and/or want to charge you an extra fee for it and/or not take responsibility when customs rejects the item/puts heavy brokerage on it.

[r0otctrl]

On 6/16/2018 at 12:16 AM, StackUnderflow said:

Generally the progression of intel CPUs over the past couple years went like this (for the dual CPU setup which is the sweet spot for homelabs):

(X|E)55XX (4 core, Nehalem) -> (X|E)56XX (4/6 core, Westmere) -> E5-26XX (8 core, Sandy Bridge) -> E5-26XXv2(8/10 core, Ivy Bridge) ->E5-26XXv3 (12+ core, Haswell, DDR4 requirement)->after this point it'll be too expensive for hobbyists.

 

Note the core number is not the thread number, server CPUs will usually have hyperthreading although I leave that disabled most of the time. Also, since these are dual socket CPUs, multiply that core number for 2 for the actual number of physical cores, and by 4 for the number of threads. The Nehalem and Westmere CPUs share a socket, the Sandy and Ivy Bridge CPUs share a socket.

 

In the first 2 in the series, X is performance and E is the "normal" SKUs. The XXs generally represent 2 numbers, and the higher the numbers are usually the higher clocked/more cores the chip is. In Sandy Bridge and later, they got rid of the X and E labels and just used the 2 numbers at the end.

 

Your i5-750 is a Nehalem quad core CPU clocked at 2.66GHz (Lynnfield to be specific). meaning it is on par with a X5560ish level performance. However, the X5560 is better for server use because it is a dual socket CPU (meaning it can do 8 cores, 16 threads while the core i5 can only do 4 cores, 4 threads), supports ECC RAM, and has hyperthreading enabled, on top of more PCIe lanes and 144GB max memory (compared to the 16GB for the desktop chip).

 

The R710s are a popular series of Dell prebuilt servers that usually dwells around the (X|E)55XX and 56XX eras. I had a Dell R710 with 2 X5550 CPUs. If you build a white box, Sandy Bridge is the most economical. But even the worst Dell prebuilt R710s ($100 on eBay) will be around 3X better performance (2 of those CPUs with hyperthreading and unforgivingly loud cooling) than the i5-750 with 4GB RAM. A E5-26whatever will be miles better because it has 2x the number of cores as well as newer instructions like AVX and maybe some newer video codecs built in. 

 

But you got to ask yourself if you actually need all this power. Because at the end of the day, even the R710s were designed to host multiple VMs and it doesn't sound like you actually need multiple VMs if a shared hosting service was enough for you before. I'd seriously suggest looking into AWS or something like a cheap Kimsufi box ($15ish a month for a dedicated box with server infrastructure) before committing to putting a server in your bedroom. I was able to simultaneously host 3 modded minecraft servers, and 4 srcds instances with 10s-low 100s of concurrent connections with 2 X5550s and 64GB RAM in an R710 without it breaking a sweat. Only when running school stuff that's designed to max out your CPU usage for days is there actually a benefit to switching to the Sandy Bridge architecture (that and the silence/low power consumption). At that point, it'll be your internet connection that's the limiting factor. 

 

I never bothered shipping anything to Canada (I used to live there), I'm in the states now and shipping is easier, it'll generally be up to the eBay seller if they want to ship internationally and/or want to charge you an extra fee for it and/or not take responsibility when customs rejects the item/puts heavy brokerage on it.

I'm going to be doing a bit more that I'm incapable of doing on my current web hosting platform, such as continual scraping, et cetera. However, I probably don't need such a powerful setup. I'll definitely be looking into Kimsufi boxes and more into AWS. Thanks for the information and suggestions! What do you know about these Kimsufi box things? Any experience with them? All of this stuff, Kimsufi boxes, AWS, it's all fairly new to me.