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AtlasWraith

AMD Radeon RX 680 Navi 10 GPU With GDDR6 Coming 2019?

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5 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Well, I think we should wait for official news before we rush to judgement.


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1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

Well, I think we should wait for official news before we rush to judgement.

Well yes, we could wait till next year's Computex before speculating, but where's the fun in that?

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34 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Both turned out to be false :P but lets hope it'll be better!

Wasn't it instead because sony asked for Navi? That forced amd to give them Navi as a post GCN arch because Sony doesn't want a gcn one for obvious reasons.

Why wouldn't they want GCN? A new arch might not be ISA compatible and that's gonna screw with things. They didn't want Puma because it might mess with timings so that should tell you something.

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1 minute ago, Trixanity said:

Why wouldn't they want GCN? A new arch might not be ISA compatible and that's gonna screw with things. They didn't want Puma because it might mess with timings so that should tell you something.

The problem with GCN is that it currently only scales to 64 CUs on a single GPU. This has been an known issue since 2015 when AMD made a 64 CU GPU. Since that time they decided that it wasn't worth fixing it.


How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill

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30 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Doesn't inherently mean Navi won't be MCM, just that console(assuming Sony does want Navi) and consumer Navi won't. That might be why their consumer card is rumored to be limited to 1080 performance levels since they're not tossing multiple chips on there. Course that means if they do want to go MCM in the gaming sphere they'll have to invest quite a lot into working with engine makers and developers on mGPU coding. The interesting thing is that their relationship with Microsoft and Sony might end up making that significantly easier in the long run if they can get them to cooperate for either enhanced 9th gen consoles or 10th gen.

the new rtg head himself states that gaming navi wont be mcm, the software side is not ready. ML and compute, on the other hand, might be

 

perhaps i should make a thread

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Just now, AluminiumTech said:

The problem with GCN is that it currently only scales to 64 CUs on a single GPU. This has been an known issue since 2015 when AMD made a 64 CU GPU. Since that time they decided that it wasn't worth fixing it.

Of course but we don't know what Sony wants for the PS5. A 64 CU GPU might be what they want. The PS4 Pro has something like 36 CUs. That would still be almost twice the size. We still have no clue what AMD is doing with Navi. It's all speculation.

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 We recently spoke with David Wang, the new SVP of engineering for AMD’s Radeon Technologies Group (RTG), and there’s pretty much zero chance that’s going to be worked into next year’s Navi GPUs.

 

“We are looking at the MCM type of approach,” says Wang, “but we’ve yet to conclude that this is something that can be used for traditional gaming graphics type of application.”

 

“To some extent you’re talking about doing CrossFire on a single package,” says Wang. “The challenge is that unless we make it invisible to the ISVs [independent software vendors] you’re going to see the same sort of reluctance.

 

“We’re going down that path on the CPU side, and I think on the GPU we’re always looking at new ideas. But the GPU has unique constraints with this type of NUMA [non-uniform memory access] architecture, and how you combine features... The multithreaded CPU is a bit easier to scale the workload. The NUMA is part of the OS support so it’s much easier to handle this multi-die thing relative to the graphics type of workload.”

 

“The fact that the GPU is the most efficient machine in the world to handle large batch efficiently, that’s not going to change,” he says, “whether you’re using it for computation or graphics. But, you know, I think there’ll be tweaks, so that for computation it may be biased to one kind of architecture and gaming will be biased to another type of architecture, but I think the fundamental building blocks and concept will still be pretty similar.”

 

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RX 680 according to my sources will be powered by the Navi GPU architecture and feature 8GB of GDDR6 memory, with the performance of the GTX 1080 to GTX 1080 Ti

tumblr_m6lwwaJk7f1qm6oc3o1_500.gif

 

Quote

or so.

MmmmHmmmm.  Tricksy little hobbitses wiggle waggling their tongueses.

 

Ford pinto 2020 model to have performance roughly equivalent to Lamborghini*

*1963 lambo 350 GTV

 

However OP is right, optimism would be nice. But....$299 to $399 is quite the gulf.  One end of that spectrum is interesting the other is not so much.  Plus coming in 3 years late to the party is pretty unimpressive.  Remember when people threw shade for being 6 months or a year after the competition?  Wow were we spoiled then.

 

At least they're moving forward.  Hope they stumble upon a breakthrough or their efforts with devs pay off on the engine and API side.  Will like to see actual results and await them eagerly.

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33 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

They practically have no choice. If they don't go MCM then there's physically no way they can deliver GTX 1080 performance at that price point.

 

They have to use MCM because monolithic GCN GPUs are limited to 64 CUs max. You can't make a traditional GCN based GPU for a single GPU solution with more than 64 CUs. It's physically not possible. And AMD's GPU for Sony is rumored to have around 70-80 CUs which is 100% not achievable without the use of MCM.

They can get a refined Vega to 1080 level on the 7nm shrink. MCM in anything but a compute card is off the table with GCN, as it'd just take too much of a rework of the entire architecture. I expect Navi will share some ideas with whatever the new architecture is called, but still limited by big chunks of GCN.

 

Given we're talking 2021 for a full, new Architecture, it's likely most of the work started around 2016, after AMD had real results with Zen in-house. MCM in GPUs is still a risk, but having the first production-level MCM dies in your R&D lab on their way towards market really reduces the risk factors.

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2 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

AMD's been making GPUs for PlayStation and Xbox for since the PS3 and Xbox 360.

 

Also, they use different GPUs than they do on PC. Which is why there are equals that you can compare the GPUs of consoles to in the PC market, but it won't be exact since it's not the same GPU.

FYI PS3 GPU was nvidia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_technical_specifications#Graphics_processing_unit

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1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

They practically have no choice. If they don't go MCM then there's physically no way they can deliver GTX 1080 performance at that price point.

 

They have to use MCM because monolithic GCN GPUs are limited to 64 CUs max. You can't make a traditional GCN based GPU for a single GPU solution with more than 64 CUs. It's physically not possible. And AMD's GPU for Sony is rumored to have around 70-80 CUs which is 100% not achievable without the use of MCM.

Or without a post gen arch.

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2 hours ago, MoonSpot said:

tumblr_m6lwwaJk7f1qm6oc3o1_500.gif

 

MmmmHmmmm.  Tricksy little hobbitses wiggle waggling their tongueses.

 

Ford pinto 2020 model to have performance roughly equivalent to Lamborghini*

*1963 lambo 350 GTV

 

However OP is right, optimism would be nice. But....$299 to $399 is quite the gulf.  One end of that spectrum is interesting the other is not so much.  Plus coming in 3 years late to the party is pretty unimpressive.  Remember when people threw shade for being 6 months or a year after the competition?  Wow were we spoiled then.

 

At least they're moving forward.  Hope they stumble upon a breakthrough or their efforts with devs pay off on the engine and API side.  Will like to see actual results and await them eagerly.

dont forget that 7nm is a real huge jump in both performance and density so having a navi gpu with 64 cus and gddr6 is not out of reach, especially because they can remove from the die all the compute stuff that vega has like the larger addressable space, rapid packed math, HBcc etc, the memory should also be cheaper which will help, it should slot into the current xx70 slot

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2 hours ago, Trixanity said:

Why wouldn't they want GCN? A new arch might not be ISA compatible and that's gonna screw with things. They didn't want Puma because it might mess with timings so that should tell you something.

Because a better gcn wouldn't be enough an upgrade over what they currently have in the ps4 pro I'd guess

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16 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Because a better gcn wouldn't be enough an upgrade over what they currently have in the ps4 pro I'd guess

they can at least go to 2 times the performance, so thats not it, plus going to a new architecture would mean lots of recoding

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18 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

they can at least go to 2 times the performance, so thats not it, plus going to a new architecture would mean lots of recoding

They can't get that much better performance for the same price

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42 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

they can at least go to 2 times the performance, so thats not it, plus going to a new architecture would mean lots of recoding

Depends entirely on the power profile and console size they're looking for. As for recoding, with at minimum an additional 75% CPU horsepower(More if they go for SMT) and close to double the GPU power if not greater than the PS4 Pro, dealing with inefficiencies from porting PS4 games will not exactly be too difficult.

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7 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

Frankly speaking 8gb of VRAM is more than needed for gaming purposes with the RX480/580, while some may argue 4gb is not enough truth is at 2560x1440p which is as high as you probably wanna go with this GPU is sufficient, 1080p it is plenty.

I could barely run Dragon Age Inquisition, Rise of The Tomb Raider and Battlefield 1 with the VRAM of the R9 290. Uses around - 3.9GB at 1080p and hitches whenever its VRAM is at that high. Lowering texture quality reduces VRAM usage considerably.


I don't read the reply to my posts anymore so don't bother.

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7 hours ago, cj09beira said:

they can at least go to 2 times the performance, so thats not it, plus going to a new architecture would mean lots of recoding

Sure. However on the gpu side there has been a gigantic leap compared to what has been put in previous consoles, so it make sense for them to go all in on. Two different arch, cashing in on the fact that it will run older titles just fine through raw perf, then run whatever is the following through careful optimization. Plus if they're not complete idiot they can still port some of them easily anyway.

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How does this look good for AMD?  If it's right, AMD will be finally releasing something to compete with the 1080ti  2 years later.  If they're wrong they have nothing to compete with it for more than 2 years.  

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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12 hours ago, AtlasWraith said:

with the performance of the GTX 1080 to GTX 1080 Ti or so..

We should expect a price of somewhere in the $299-$399 range, and will battle the GTX 1080 Ti at higher resolution games because of its faster GDDR6 RAM.

 

the amd gpu hype machine strikes back. 1080ti performance for the price we now sell rx580 xD

 

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

How does this look good for AMD?  If it's right, AMD will be finally releasing something to compete with the 1080ti  2 years later.  If they're wrong they have nothing to compete with it for more than 2 years.  

 

 

if you could buy 1080ti next year for that price it would be nice. Memory shortages and all mind you.


.

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12 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

They practically have no choice. If they don't go MCM then there's physically no way they can deliver GTX 1080 performance at that price point.

 

They have to use MCM because monolithic GCN GPUs are limited to 64 CUs max. You can't make a traditional GCN based GPU for a single GPU solution with more than 64 CUs. It's physically not possible. And AMD's GPU for Sony is rumored to have around 70-80 CUs which is 100% not achievable without the use of MCM.

They can easily hit gtx 1080 level performance without MCM. Even the current Vega does it. So Navi will be able to do it a lot cheaper on a smaller die using 7nm process. Now added to that consider the higher clockspeeds enabled by the new process. Then consider the ipc improvements from the new Navi architecture... Also not having to pay for expensive HBM 2.0 memory.

 

They will need MCM in order to compete with the next generation Nvidia flagship. I.e. the 1180ti.

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

How does this look good for AMD?  If it's right, AMD will be finally releasing something to compete with the 1080ti  2 years later.  If they're wrong they have nothing to compete with it for more than 2 years.  

 

 

Thing is you don't compete on performance alone so they wouldn't compete against a 1080 Ti. Pascal will have been replaced by then anyway.

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1 hour ago, Trixanity said:

Thing is you don't compete on performance alone so they wouldn't compete against a 1080 Ti. Pascal will have been replaced by then anyway.

We can use whatever metric for competing we want but it's still the same thing, 2 years too late.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

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16 minutes ago, mr moose said:

We can use whatever metric for competing we want but it's still the same thing, 2 years too late.

Why would it be too late?

 

If they want to target a performance level customers are familiar with at a mainstream price then that's good. Especially if that performance level previously cost $699 to get to.

 

Making a $299-399 GPU which performs on par with a 1080Ti and is coming in 2019 is good and AMD should be happy. I'd love to get 1080Ti performance for $299 in 2019. Honestly I'd be very happy with that.

 

Most people on the forum seem to forget that the people who buy GTX 1070s, GTX 1080s and GTX 1080Tis are the absolute minority less than 10% and the majority of GPU sales are in the $100-300 range. If it came out at $299 for 1080Ti performance then that'd be great. If it was instead GTX 1080 performance then obviously it would be less exciting but still good.

 


How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill

iPhone 8 Plus (Mid 2019 to present)

Samaritan XL (Early 2018 - present with 2019 GPU upgrades) - AMD Ryzen 7 1700X (8C/16T) , MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon, Corsair 16GB DDR4-3200MHz ,  Asus ROG Strix RX Vega 56 , Corsair RM850i PSU, Corsair H100i v2 CPU Cooler, Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SSD, Seagate BarraCuda 2TB HDD (2018), Seagate BarraCuda 1TB HDD (2014), NZXT S340 Elite, Corsair ML 120 Pro, Corsair ML 140 Pro

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