[Computex] AsMedia Demos USB 3.2 Gen2x2 (Up To 20Gbit/s) PHY with Controller due in 2019

[AlTech]

Here's some context:

USB 3.2 is the most recent USB Standard that was released a while back. 

 

USB 3.2 has 4 compatibility modes:

• Gen1x1 - Basically the same as USB 3.1 Gen 1 and USB 3.0 (5Gbit/s using 1 lane)
• Gen1x2 - 10Gbit/s using 2 lanes
• Gen2x1 - Basically the same as USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gbit/s using 1 lane)
• Gen2x2 - 20Gbit/s using 2 lanes

 

You might be asking why this matters.

 

Actual News begins:

AsMedia are demoing their USB 3.2 Gen2x2 PHY (a physical interface for it) and their Controller is due in 2019.

 

This is good news as it means potentially widespread USB 3.2 adoption in 2019/2020 unlike USB 3.1.

 

This also causes more issues as currently USB 3.1 support is entirely hit or miss regarding 5Gbit/s vs 10Gbit/s . USB 3.2 supports 5GBit/s 1 lane, 10Gbit/s 2 lane, 10Gbit/s 1 lane, and 20Gbit/s 2 lane which is likely to cause more fragmentation over which standard is actually used by Device OEMs and Controller support.

 

The original article does a very poor job of explaining this issue.

 

Quote

USB IF published the final USB 3.2 specification in September last year and so developers of controllers and physical interfaces (PHY) started to design their solutions supporting the new tech. As it appears, the development process is proceeding well at ASMedia, which is demonstrating its USB 3.2 PHY at Computex.

The USB 3.2 uses two high-speed USB Type-C Tx/Rx channels to achieve 20 Gbps maximum throughput and while the technology retains the USB 3.1 physical layer data rates and encoding techniques, it still needs a new PHY to work. Just several days ago Synopsys demonstrated its USB 3.2 prototype solution, and apparently, ASMedia also has its USB 3.2 PHY ready. The company does not disclose which process technology it uses for the physical interface, but 10 Gbps data transfer rate is not something that has serious requirements.

 

 

So yeah, I'm liking the improved bandwidth but do we really need so many compatibility modes and configurations to work with everything from USB 3.0 to now?

 

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0#USB_3.2

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12922/asmedia-demos-usb-32-gen-2x2-phy-usb-32-controller-due-in-2019

[themctipers]

Thunderbolt 3 take over for fucks sake.

[r2724r16]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

For those who have been living under a rock, USB 3.2 is the most recent USB Standard that was released a while back. 

Lmao, I didn't know I was living under a rock

[ItsMitch]

3 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

For those who have been living under a rock, USB 3.2 is the most recent USB Standard that was released a while back. 

 

thanks for this very insightful comment on those who don't follow the very fun and very interesting USB standard. 

[Sauron]

I wish they'd just wait 10 years and come out with a single 200Gbps 4.0 standard. Right now 3.0 is good enough for 99% of use cases and fragmentation like this only causes confusion.

[The Benjamins]

4 minutes ago, themctipers said:

Thunderbolt 3 take over for fucks sake.

That's intels fault for locking it down and having high cost for the controllers. only as of recently have they opened it up.

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

I wish they'd just wait 10 years and come out with a single 200Gbps 4.0 standard. Right now 3.0 is good enough for 99% of use cases and fragmentation like this only causes confusion.

3.2 is more of a physical connector optimization, it allows to use all the pins of Type-C which was not out before 3.0 was released.

[themctipers]

Just now, The Benjamins said:

That's intels fault for locking it down and having high cost for the controllers. only as of recently have they opened it up.

Well it is now open, and so use that instead of USB 3.whatever the fuck so that I can use my DongleBook Pro without dongles 

USB C power in
USB C to HDMI
USB C to USB A to USB A hub on my monitor to KB/M/external.

[Blademaster91]

6 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

That's intels fault for locking it down and having high cost for the controllers. only as of recently have they opened it up.

I thought that was Apple locking it down? Not sure if Intel agreed to let Apple make it proprietary. Either way it sucks that it's only an open connector standard until recently. Having USB 3.0,3.1 gen 1 and 3.1 gen 2 is confusing enough to a lot of people.

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, themctipers said:

Well it is now open, and so use that instead of USB 3.whatever the fuck so that I can use my DongleBook Pro without dongles 

USB C power in
USB C to HDMI
USB C to USB A to USB A hub on my monitor to KB/M/external.

Both USB and Thunderbolt standards allow for 100w power delivery, Native DP (DP supports passive HDMI 1.4 and DVI)

 

also USB will not just stop developing because of competition, you would expect them to improve to try and beat TB.

[The Benjamins]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I thought that was Apple locking it down? Either way it sucks that it's only an open connector standard until recently. Having USB 3.0,3.1 gen 1 and 3.1 gen 2 is confusing enough to a lot of people.

They could of done better with the names, 3.0 is 5Gbs, 3.1 is 10Gbs, 3.2 is 20Gbs

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, The Benjamins said:

Both USB and Thunderbolt standards allow for 100w power delivery, Native DP (DP supports passive HDMI 1.4 and DVI)

 

also USB will not just stop developing because of competition, you would expect them to improve to try and beat TB.

Yeah, USB 3.2 Gen2x2 only brings USB on par with Thunderbolt 2. USB 3.1 Gen 2 brought them up to Thunderbolt 1.

 

They still need to try and beat Thunderbolt 3 though.

[themctipers]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I thought that was Apple locking it down? Either way it sucks that it's only an open connector standard until recently. Having USB 3.0,3.1 gen 1 and 3.1 gen 2 is confusing enough to a lot of people.

3.0 = 3.1 gen 1 

3.1 old = 3.1 gen 2

 

why did they have to shuffle it around..

Just now, The Benjamins said:

Both USB and Thunderbolt standards allow for 100w power delivery, Native DP (DP supports passive HDMI 1.4 and DVI)

 

also USB will not just stop developing because of competition, you would expect them to improve to try and beat TB.

HDMI 1.4b is not enough for me, I have a 4k 60hz display! No it does not have a free displayport input.. 
100w power delivery, but pretty much nobody has a PD hub that does >65w or so, or 20v 3a. I am waiting for a hub to do USB A ports while also doing PD of 100w because I use the Apple 87w USB C charger with my laptop. 

[Sauron]

6 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

3.2 is more of a physical connector optimization, it allows to use all the pins of Type-C which was not out before 3.0 was released.

Again - why? Couldn't they just wait a couple of years and release type-C at its full potential right away? Instead, we have 3.1 in the middle which comes in two different connector types, one of which also supports thunderbolt... sometimes.

[Sauron]

18 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

 

Hold on a second... is that a f***ing pci slot? ARE THOSE IDE PINS? What the hell is this?

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

Hold on a second... is that a f***ing pci slot? ARE THOSE IDE PINS? What the hell is this?

Honestly I have no idea .

[Sakkura]

16 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I wish they'd just wait 10 years and come out with a single 200Gbps 4.0 standard. Right now 3.0 is good enough for 99% of use cases and fragmentation like this only causes confusion.

I wish Asmedia controllers would just stop being ass. I'd much rather have a solid 5 Gbps port than a port that's 20 Gbps on paper only.

[samcool55]

8 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Hold on a second... is that a f***ing pci slot? ARE THOSE IDE PINS? What the hell is this?

Exactly what i was thinking! Like, can you even adapt usb to that somehow? Wtf is the point of those connectors?

There is a pci-e 1x slot at the bottom so it's not all 90's stuff...

[Sauron]

9 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Meh, Ethernet is evolving slowly because of that. 12 years between 10Gbps and 40/100Gbps, and it's not even broadly available.

And yet... have you ever been confused about the capabilities of an Ethernet port? Yes, the standard advances slowly, but that's not because of the longer intervals between releases. If they had released a standard every 3 years at 15, 20, 40 and 100Gbps in those 12 years the advancement would have been just as slow but the fragmentation would have been depressing.

11 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Exactly what i was thinking! Like, can you even adapt usb to that somehow?

Yeah, but it makes no sense  

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Pins are just pins, they don't need to be connected to an IDE controller. It's pretty common on development boards.

Oh I see... what about the pci slot though? Doesn't strike me as a particularly handy pinout.

[AlwaysFSX]

Cool, when is USB 3.3 coming out? With it plug in to a new header too?

[The Benjamins]

30 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Again - why? Couldn't they just wait a couple of years and release type-C at its full potential right away? Instead, we have 3.1 in the middle which comes in two different connector types, one of which also supports thunderbolt... sometimes.

Type C was developed to replace Micro and Mini B, and to allow for native USB 3.x support and reversible connections. With out the knowledge of adoption rate would it be smart to spend more money and wait years to release it at the same time. To me that sounds really risky to not have a solution to having a small USB 3.x port for years.

 

EDIT:

 

Also if Type C was delayed then TB 3 would be delayed or use a different connector which would destroy the USB compatibility of TB 3.  I don't see how this would be better.

[Sauron]

Just now, The Benjamins said:

Type C was developed to replace Micro and Mini B, and to allow for native USB 3.x support and reversible connections. With out the knowledge of adoption rate would it be smart to spend more money and wait years to release it at the same time. To me that sounds really risky to not have a solution to having a small USB 3.x port for years.

If Type C had been a single, well defined standard, sure - but it wasn't, and only now are we starting to get all the features the cable theoretically allows. Nobody was in a rush to get usb 3 on smartphones (even with quick charge we're nowhere near the peak power delivery Type C supports) and waiting a year or two wouldn't have hurt.

[The Benjamins]

9 minutes ago, Sauron said:

If Type C had been a single, well defined standard, sure - but it wasn't, and only now are we starting to get all the features the cable theoretically allows. Nobody was in a rush to get usb 3 on smartphones (even with quick charge we're nowhere near the peak power delivery Type C supports) and waiting a year or two wouldn't have hurt.

Type C is a single, well defined standard. Type C like Type A and B are Physical connector standards ONLY. most people fail to understand that.

 

Type Letter standards are physical connector standards only

Number standards are controller standards only

 

USB 3.2 is the first controller standard the does not support Type A and B.

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, The Benjamins said:

Type C is a single, well defined standard. Type C like Type A and B are Physical connector standards ONLY. most people fail to understand that.

I understand that, the problem is that it doesn't make a difference - I can't reliably tell what a port will do for me just by looking at it or its name, and that is a problem.

2 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

USB 3.2 is the first controller standard the does not support Type A and B.

As I said, they should have waited, released Type C along with 3.2 and called it a  day. This way we'd know exactly what a Type C port can do for us and what a Type A can't.