Lisa Su Confirms 7nm Radeon RX Graphics Cards For Gamers In 2019

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Yeah, sorry my bad, the Canadian one was just Xeons... were there any GPUs? 

[edit]

Out of the 3 or 4 different server racks, they used 1 with Teslas in it. That makes sense, as you said, for the "AI" cores.

Hmm pretty sure we just put in Huawei CloudEngine 12800's and they weren't "1 million dollars", shows how street price means basically nothing lol.

[GMWolf]

11 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

So it seems AMD have been aiming for the bang per buck, and NVidia just for the bang.

 

So we will have to see what the pricing is in 2019? Will AMD come in where the 1050ti is currently? Cheap and performance? Or the 1070? With NVidia just having 1080ti v2 at even more cost, but even more performance?

AMD already are at 1070 and 1080 performance and price (vega 56 and 64). They will most likely continue competing in that range.
(yes, performance varies between  titles)

[Trixanity]

5 hours ago, Humbug said:

Ya We won't be able to predict the performance at all by looking at the new architectural details. Just too many variables and too complicated. Especially moving to a non gcn part we have no ballpark from which to extrapolate. Need to wait for benchmarks..

No predictions, no. However details on the architecture will tell us what AMD's goals are for the new arch and their ambitions. It will tell us what direction they're heading and give us an idea of what we're looking at. It obviously won't tell us the performance though as something good on paper won't necessarily work in practice. We've seen that a few times. Nevertheless, I want some info even if it wasn't performance numbers. It's annoying that we know absolutely nothing yet.

[Misanthrope]

"Confirms for gamers"

 

 

Gamers you say? How many Radeon cards have made it to gamer hands in the last year

 

You sure you didn't mean miners Lisa?

[Sauron]

On 7/6/2018 at 4:49 PM, savagepain said:

its funny intel released a 28 core cpu

Actually they didn't, they just showed an overclocked xeon with a server board on crack.

[Misanthrope]

11 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Actually they didn't, they just showed an overclocked xeon with a server board on crack.

The fact that we have to keep repeating this shows their strategy works and it worked because of unscrupulous youtubers that are woefully uncritical and go to these press events not as press but as stupid fucking fanboys.

[cj09beira]

24 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

"Confirms for gamers"

 

Gamers you say? How many Radeon cards have made it to gamer hands in the last year

 

You sure you didn't mean miners Lisa?

what are you upset about, miners are buying amd cards with much less bias as they only care about their profits, gamers wouldn't have done so at all and in the end amd is still developing the cards for the gaming or server market first, so in the long run gamers only gain from it as it allowed amd to get some extra funding that gamers would not have given to amd 

[cj09beira]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

The fact that we have to keep repeating this shows their strategy works and it worked because of unscrupulous youtubers that are woefully uncritical and go to these press events not as press but as stupid fucking fanboys.

it was hard to see at the time, as they were far way from it when the first news were done, the other part is that the moment that the first news got out intel won as no one is going to be paying atention to the retractions

unless its a whole new article that is really critical, and because intel kept silent for a while they didnt have enough info.

now after it was found out they should have been harsher, but most of the press lives from those samples and sponsorships which is a shame

[Misanthrope]

20 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

what are you upset about, miners are buying amd cards with much less bias as they only care about their profits, gamers wouldn't have done so at all and in the end amd is still developing the cards for the gaming or server market first, so in the long run gamers only gain from it as it allowed amd to get some extra funding that gamers would not have given to amd 

You know I was going to give you my actual answer, but since you are answering yourself I guess I don't need to, other than to point what a ridiculous straw man is to ask somebody a question then not even pretend to give them the chance to respond by going into your little tirade yourself on the very same post immediately after supposedly asking the question.

 

Instead I'll focus on your ridiculous answer that Mythical Misanthrope apparently gave by living rent free inside your head but I must warn you, it might disappoint you as well: Your ultimate conclusion is "Allowed amd to get some extra funding that gamers would not have given to amd"

 

That just perfectly summarizes AMD Radeon state of fucking failure right there: a division that is just not capable of getting funding, or even much profit at all, from gamers. Yes, absolutely accurate in fact. Even putting aside the last year or so of mining craze, AMD was still a perpetual second place to Nvidia for what 4 or 5 years? How can you possibly expect to be able to survive a crisis like the mining craze of 2017 if you are going into by being a perpetual second place "Good for the money in the midrange" company for so many years and so many generations?

 

How many times has AMD promised to be really working hard on optimizations? How many times have AMD GPU gamers have said "Oh you can't compare on-launch drivers of the 7970/290/580/Vega 64 to Nvidia, you have to wait for AMD driver optimization that is expected to take up to a freaking year at times (They were still finding extra performance a full year into the 290 for example)? In fact AMD acknowledged this themselves in February 2017 when they were preparing for the Vega release even stating that the delay was to make sure they had a more solid driver experience at launch and so on. Turns out that didn't pan out to be the case at all.

 

Bottom line is the arguments have been the same for years: Radeon is good...for the money. They run hotter but Sapphire makes the best coolers and PSUs are beastly now anyways. Radeon is competitive....if you focus on this list of games that are optimized for AMD...that happens to be most of the time a much smaller list of games.

 

It looks to me than the gamers market like it or not, has largely been shaped by Nvidia and that means their optimization and their tendencies and their bullshit. I do find myself hoping AMD would get some more traction today, we would be able to have things like adaptive sync or fancy hair effects move over to more gamers far more quickly but honestly AMD is in need of a Zen for gpu except built entirely around firing all of the software team and getting most of their funding and focus on driver optimization.

 

Otherwise they'll keep flopping and after the beating they took last years for gamers I am telling you there isn't as much good will as you probably imagine there is left and their numbers will show record low market share among gamers if they just release another crappy iteration of 'Good while meeting X condition' as they always have.

[cj09beira]

24 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

 

their downfall was probably when someone high up decided that gpus were going to move to igpus, that probably meant that the investment into increasing gcn to 6-8 shader engines was never done, which after 290x meant that amd had no simple way to scale up, then by the time they realized their error next gen is in development so there is no point in fixing gcn now, 

now they are stuck into a cycle of selling less, less R&D sell less, until next gen comes out, some people say it should bring good gains, i have no clue, ryzen should help amd hire more software guys, which should be their priority right now.

mining is a zombie right now but might come back with gddr6, lets hope not, though it would be funny as this time it would mean nvidea gpus would be the ones overpriced 

[leadeater]

41 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

-snip-

You know it's very bad on the PC side of the games industry when the Square Enix 1st Development Unit decides to partner with Nvidia for the PC port of FF15 which was built from the ground up originally for the PS4, power by AMD CPU and GPU, and highly optimized for it. You would think going with AMD on the PC port would make a lot more sense since well, you already optimized for that GPU architecture.

 

Square Enix is by no means lazy either, they will polish giant mounds of turds for years, even throwing them out and completely starting on a new pile just to make sure it is exactly their vision. They'll even make there own game engines for just single games then throw it out and start again new (though they seem to have finally caught on how idiotic that is).

 

They went with Nvidia not because GameWorks would make their life easier, they clearly have little interest in doing that with the stupid stuff they do. There was just no way any current AMD GPUs could run that game at 4k with acceptable frame rates the community expects on a PC.

[Morgan Everett]

3 hours ago, GMWolf said:

AMD already are at 1070 and 1080 performance and price (vega 56 and 64). They will most likely continue competing in that range.
(yes, performance varies between  titles)

They're there for performance, but not price. That's just the problem.

[Humbug]

54 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

their downfall was probably when someone high up decided that gpus were going to move to igpus, that probably meant that the investment into increasing gcn to 6-8 shader engines was never done, which after 290x meant that amd had no simple way to scale up, then by the time they realized their error next gen is in development so there is no point in fixing gcn now,

This is true, but now it's been a few years since AMD realized their mistake and refocused their R&D around discrete GPUs, and formed RTG etc.. So I fully expect that to start paying off and they will return to the high end. If not with Navi multi die GPUs then with the next gen non-GCN part...

 

Now they also have the benefit of being a profitable company whose revenue is growing fast, which is a really big deal.

 

Plus they will definitely get most of the next gen console wins with Zen2 cores and Navi graphics combined into an APU.

[Humbug]

 

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

 At least when you buy Nvidia you don't have to worry about any games not liking your GPU and performing badly, that's why it doesn't matter that the RX 580 is often a better buy than a GTX 1060 because the RX 580 still has those potential problems looming over it.

 

6 hours ago, Humbug said:

I agree with the rest of your post. But don't think this is a problem. It tends to get overstated. If there is an issue it generally gets quickly squashed with a driver. AMD tends to dominate on some games and Nvidia in others. But AMD is very reliable.

 

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

I agree but the sentiment is there so that's exactly what happens and the only way to change that is to not have products that have large drawbacks like the Vega 64. If it's going to hurt more than help then don't make it.

 

Yep, to further illustrate this point... here is the newest Unreal engine Game.

 

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/06/06/state_decay_2_video_card_performance_review/5

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/06/06/state_decay_2_video_card_performance_review/6

 

As can be seen from the frametimes in this particular game even though Nvidia has higher average framerates, AMD actually offers a much better gameplay experience. Much smoother with tighter consistent delivery. i.e. in other words no hitching. So in this case Nvidia is the one which has GPUs the game doesn't like and is not smooth. This despite the unreal engine being loaded with Nvidia tech.

 

Maybe AMD will put out a driver which catches up the average framerate, or maybe Nvidia will fix their smoothness issue.

 

But yeah my point is really that the sentiment amongst the ignorant crowd that Nvidia provides a better experience needs to die. It's not healthy or true, but that's the power of branding...

[GMWolf]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

They went with Nvidia not because GameWorks would make their life easier, they clearly have little interest in doing that with the stupid stuff they do. There was just no way any current AMD GPUs could run that game at 4k with acceptable frame rates the community expects on a PC.

I think market share is a more likely explanation. But yes.

[GMWolf]

2 minutes ago, Humbug said:

 

 

 

Yep, to further illustrate this point... here is the newest Unreal engine Game.

 

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/06/06/state_decay_2_video_card_performance_review/5

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/06/06/state_decay_2_video_card_performance_review/6

 

As can be seen from the frametimes in this particular game even though Nvidia has higher average framerates, AMD actually offers a much better gameplay experience. Much smoother with tighter consistent delivery. i.e. in other words no hitching. So Nvidia is the one which doesn't like your GPU and is not smooth.

 

Maybe AMD will put out a driver which catches up the average framerate, or maybe Nvidia will fix their smoothness issue.

 

But yeah my point is I really the sentiment amongst the ignorant crowd that Nvidia provides a better experience dies. It's not healthy.

Before people say "Ah but this is just one game., AMD fans always point to specific games!"; thats an Unreal title. Running on the unreal engine, which is optimized to run on both platforms (if not more on Nvidia's side due to market share). This will be somewhat representative of many games, especially of Unreal titles (a very popular engine, even amongst AAA developers)

[Trixanity]

2 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

You know I was going to give you my actual answer, but since you are answering yourself I guess I don't need to, other than to point what a ridiculous straw man is to ask somebody a question then not even pretend to give them the chance to respond by going into your little tirade yourself on the very same post immediately after supposedly asking the question.

 

Instead I'll focus on your ridiculous answer that Mythical Misanthrope apparently gave by living rent free inside your head but I must warn you, it might disappoint you as well: Your ultimate conclusion is "Allowed amd to get some extra funding that gamers would not have given to amd"

Wow, so much anger all from what's called a rhetorical question. It's a common literary device.