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matrix07012

Massive changes to the Steam Store after the waifu holocaust

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Massive changes to the Steam Store after the waifu holocaust

 

TL;DR - if it's not illegal or an obvious troll game, it's allowed

 

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Recently there's been a bunch of community discussion around what kind of games we're allowing onto the Steam Store. As is often the case, the discussion caused us to spend some time examining what we're doing, why we're doing it, and how we could be doing it better. Decision making in this space is particularly challenging, and one that we've really struggled with. Contrary to many assumptions, this isn't a space we've automated - humans at Valve are very involved, with groups of people looking at the contents of every controversial title submitted to us. Similarly, people have falsely assumed these decisions are heavily affected by our payment processors, or outside interest groups. Nope, it's just us grappling with a really hard problem.

Unfortunately, our struggling has resulted in a bunch of confusion among our customers, developer partners, and even our own employees. So we've spent some time thinking about where we want to be on this, and we'd like to talk about it now. But we also think it's critical to talk about how we've arrived at our position, so you can understand the trade-offs we're making.

 

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So we ended up going back to one of the principles in the forefront of our minds when we started Steam, and more recently as we worked on Steam Direct to open up the Store to many more developers: Valve shouldn't be the ones deciding this. If you're a player, we shouldn't be choosing for you what content you can or can't buy. If you're a developer, we shouldn't be choosing what content you're allowed to create. Those choices should be yours to make. Our role should be to provide systems and tools to support your efforts to make these choices for yourself, and to help you do it in a way that makes you feel comfortable.

With that principle in mind, we've decided that the right approach is to allow everything onto the Steam Store, except for things that we decide are illegal, or straight up trolling. Taking this approach allows us to focus less on trying to police what should be on Steam, and more on building those tools to give people control over what kinds of content they see. We already have some tools, but they're too hidden and not nearly comprehensive enough. We are going to enable you to override our recommendation algorithms and hide games containing the topics you're not interested in. So if you don't want to see anime games on your Store, you'll be able to make that choice. If you want more options to control exactly what kinds of games your kids see when they browse the Store, you'll be able to do that. And it's not just players that need better tools either - developers who build controversial content shouldn't have to deal with harassment because their game exists, and we'll be building tools and options to support them too.

 

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So what does this mean? It means that the Steam Store is going to contain something that you hate, and don't think should exist. Unless you don't have any opinions, that's guaranteed to happen. But you're also going to see something on the Store that you believe should be there, and some other people will hate it and want it not to exist.

It also means that the games we allow onto the Store will not be a reflection of Valve’s values, beyond a simple belief that you all have the right to create & consume the content you choose. The two points above apply to all of us at Valve as well. If you see something on Steam that you think should not exist, it's almost certain that someone at Valve is right there with you. 

To be explicit about that - if we allow your game onto the Store, it does not mean we approve or agree with anything you're trying to say with it. If you're a developer of offensive games, this isn't us siding with you against all the people you're offending. There will be people throughout the Steam community who hate your games, and hope you fail to find an audience, and there will be people here at Valve who feel exactly the same way. However, offending someone shouldn't take away your game's voice. We believe you should be able to express yourself like everyone else, and to find others who want to play your game. But that's it. 

 

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In the short term, we won't be making significant changes to what's arriving on Steam until we've finished some of the tools we've described in this post. As we've hopefully managed to convey, navigating these issues is messy and complicated. Countries and societies change their laws and cultural norms over time. We'll be working on this for the foreseeable future, both in terms of what products we're allowing, what guidelines we communicate, and the tools we're providing to developers and players.

 

I give Valve massive props for this and I believe other companies should follow Valve's example *cough* Twitter, YouTube *cough*.

 

And here comes the avalanche of salt from "game journalists", right on cue. "Valve won't ban games that people I don't like enjoy!"

https://archive.is/iEU6N

 

Source: https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1666776116200553082 / http://archive.is/KtduG


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I support this decision - so long as they give us better means of filtering out stuff we don't care about than what we have now.

 

Also, I wonder if this means they'll be straight up allowing full-on porn/hentai games, now, without the devs needing to create 18+ patches.

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37 minutes ago, matrix07012 said:

So what does this mean? It means that the Steam Store is going to contain something that you hate, and don't think should exist. Unless you don't have any opinions, that's guaranteed to happen. But you're also going to see something on the Store that you believe should be there, and some other people will hate it and want it not to exist.

Beautiful.

 

Does this change the release of 'Active Shooter' then?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
35 minutes ago, onlybuilt4cubanxlinx said:

Beautiful.

 

Does this change the release of 'Active Shooter' then?

No, because it was a scam made by a person that was already banned from Steam for making scams.


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Your archive links do not work for me. First I get a security error and when I disable HTTPS I get a cloudflare error that they do not have a DNS record for that address.

 

Anyway, these are great news. I think more services should operate like this. They provide the infrastructure and tools, and then people can do whatever they want (unless it is illegal) with it. Like you said, Twitter would become much better if they stopped trying to enforce certain political views.

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18 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Like you said, Twitter would become much better if they stopped trying to enforce certain political views.

Twitter would be significantly better if they just did the basics right - i.e. just showing the tweets of people you follow in chronological order without skipping over them and not showing the other pointless bullshit in between (such as "[This person] liked [this tweet]", etc.). But getting rid of some of their bias would help out a bit, too.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
27 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Your archive links do not work for me. First I get a security error and when I disable HTTPS I get a cloudflare error that they do not have a DNS record for that address.

It’s apparently an issue with Cloudflare’s DNS.


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Well that certainly sounds decent but what are they going to do once another watchdogs rats them out to Paypal?

 

This "you have the option" thing wouldn't fly then unless it's opt in to see all content and that wouldn't be as well received as this.

 

If on the other hand they decide "fuck paypal" they'd lose significant business due to the option no longer being available.

 

I will remain skeptical to see what happens in the probably mid to long term future.


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22 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Well that certainly sounds decent but what are they going to do once another watchdogs rats them out to Paypal?

 

This "you have the option" thing wouldn't fly then unless it's opt in to see all content and that wouldn't be as well received as this.

 

If on the other hand they decide "fuck paypal" they'd lose significant business due to the option no longer being available.

 

I will remain skeptical to see what happens in the probably mid to long term future.

Use PayPal to get Steam gift cards?

 

Their content isn't what I'd consider pornographic, so I guess it's up to PayPal. However, if PayPal refuses Steam, it's also have to refuse Humble Bundle, Gamers Gate, Fanatical, etc for the same reason. This would allow for another computer to move in and take their own market share.

21 minutes ago, Canada EH said:

What the fuck is a troll game?

 

Like a creature under the bridge that asks for a toll?

I dont get it.

Shadow of Mordor, Elder Scrolls, and Lego LOTR are all going to be removed.

 

But I'd guess probably spam games. Those cheaply made games to make money and little to no effort.

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33 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Their content isn't what I'd consider pornographic, so I guess it's up to PayPal. However, if PayPal refuses Steam, it's also have to refuse Humble Bundle, Gamers Gate, Fanatical, etc for the same reason. This would allow for another computer to move in and take their own market share.

What's to say they wouldn't refuse all those stores?

 

Just in case there's any doubts Steam is overwhelmingly bigger than most of those other stores, probably combined. The groups doing the tattle tell are politically motivated groups looking to do the most visible damage possible and if you want that, you go after the biggest and most visible possible target guilty of the offense you've found.

 

Why? because if they get Paypal to drop Steam that would be a huge win for them, certainly much larger than getting any of the other stores to be dropped.


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Good job, Valve, for not having a YouTube-type scandal.


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5 hours ago, TimeOmnivore said:

Also, I wonder if this means they'll be straight up allowing full-on porn/hentai games, now, without the devs needing to create 18+ patches.

Hmmm, I would like to see that happen, BUT, It may be placed in another section (maybe a full R-18 store), who knows? Good news for the people that need to buy 2 times the game to get the steam censored game and the patch (from another website)

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And SJWs are mad again. This is the downfall of America, political correctness. Guess what people, the world isn't a place where everything goes your way and everything is rainbows, unicorns, and butterflies. The real world isn't fair and you will be offended, get over it.

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5 hours ago, matrix07012 said:

TL;DR - if it's not illegal or an obvious troll game, it's allowed

thank god!

now i can play my very perverty game of scantly clad women...

(i will also be updating my post on this with this update)


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This was going to be the only answer that didn't start a "muh free speech" shitstorm on top of the existing one. Personally, I think games like active shooter are no worse than GTA or Hatred, or the infamous airport level in Call of Duty. Even VN's should be allowed, and I really think they contribute nothing positive to the ecosystem

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5 minutes ago, Swatson said:

This was going to be the only answer that didn't start a "muh free speech" shitstorm on top of the existing one. Personally, I think games like active shooter are no worse than GTA or Hatred, or the infamous airport level in Call of Duty. Even VN's should be allowed, and I really think they contribute nothing positive to the ecosystem

Visual Novels = Active Shooter

 

Or in layman's terms: Reading what is a picture book is equal to a pointless classroom shooter. 

 

SMH

5 hours ago, TimeOmnivore said:

Also, I wonder if this means they'll be straight up allowing full-on porn/hentai games, now, without the devs needing to create 18+ patches.

I like the current system of allowing the devs to place the R-18 or H patch on their community hub. 


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Lol did valve just pull a con in order to bring in even less quality control?

 

Valve playing consumers like a fiddle


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Good stuff!

 

I don't want somebody deciding what is offensive for everybody else.

 

Different things are sensitive to different groups of people. Depiction of Nazi stuff may be more sensitive in Germany, depiction of school shootings may be more sensitive in USA, depiction of Islamic extremism will be sensitive  in the middle east etc..

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2 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Visual Novels = Active Shooter

 

Or in layman's terms: Reading what is a picture book is equal to a pointless classroom shooter. 

 

SMH

I like the current system of allowing the devs to place the R-18 or H patch on their community hub. 

Such strawman, very triggered.

Visual Novels wish they were active shooter btw.

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Steam is an online game retailer, not a regulatory body.

Games for everybody and to suit every taste.

 

Of course, they can always decide to not sell something on their store. People will buy it elsewhere.

But that isn't good for business, neither is showing how they can be easily pushed around by some dumb politicians

 

The users on Steam who get triggered by something they don't want to see? They wont even buy it and have no business in reviewing it. Should they matter at all?

It is YOUR store. Idiots who think what they dont like should not be sold at all, are the ones in the wrong. You walk into a DVD rental and find something unsavory, the store owner wont give a flying f about your opinion.

 

Oh, a safe place for kids? I don't think Steam should be expected to pick up the ball when it is the parents who are incompetent.

And no, I am not defending weeb games. I don't buy or play them. I don't even watch anime.

Wish more companies could also grow a pair of balls.


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4 hours ago, TomatoSenpai said:

Hmmm, I would like to see that happen, BUT, It may be placed in another section (maybe a full R-18 store), who knows? Good news for the people that need to buy 2 times the game to get the steam censored game and the patch (from another website)

I am also curious about this. If there is a better content filtering system in place, with better implimented age gating I doubt it would be an issue.

 

As it is now though, I'm pretty sure explicitly pornographic games won't be allowed on the basis of "illegal" because the Steam store markets to minors and doesn't have proper age gating to deal with that kind of content.

 

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