Intel's 28 Core 5Ghz CPU is misleading at best

[porina]

5 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

at least those cars everyone knows it'll never be on mass sale ._.

Well, the majority don't make it, but some occasionally do. With changes for better or worse.

5 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

I missed the live presentation, so I'm not sure on how exactly intel wanted it to be, but going by the pc hardware industry side of things, making "one-off works of art" for stage isn't common i think o_o

I actually want to see more "we could do this" type stuff. Let their employees have some fun doing something bonkers now and then.

 

As much as has been dumped on the cooling system, it isn't out of the reach of the determined overclocker. I didn't realise those chillers were of such a price:performance ratio, and the sensible part of me is struggling to control the yolo part of me in thinking about getting one to play with. My other interest is fishkeeping so I have heard of these coolers before, but never looked at crossing worlds like this before.

 

The custom mobo with serious power delivery is probably beyond most mortals. I'm not in the extreme overclocker zone yet, but some of the stuff I saw in the routine competitions at OCN are getting there.

[Motifator]

If you have the money, IMHO get a custom water loop with top notch components. Like Aquacomputer, go no less. More extreme methods of cooling are not too sensible for daily usage.

[laminutederire]

1 hour ago, ScratchCat said:

Epyc has 32 cores, the moon lander has 1 main core (maybe redundant systems), therefore my very Epic computer can land on 32 moons at once!

They most likely had this as a proof of concept and kept it back to use as a distraction should a competitor launch a potentially good system.

Yeah of course. But like people weren't that sceptical about 28 cores at 5GHz on regular cooling...

Threadripper could do 4.3GHz with a decent air cooler, but that 28 core part isn't near those 5 Ghz with the same cooler. (That's the strength and drawback of Ryzen. They hit a wall on both generations, rather fast, but higher core count parts can also go as high as that wall. So their high core count parts are quite powerful.)

But on topic, there are too many people saying Intel is better because their CPU can be pushed higher, not considering that you usually need A quite decent cooler to do that. Like people saying every coffee lake part hits at least 5GHz, when in practice, not all of them, and even when they do they remain quite hot if you don't put a lot of money on cooling them. But there's this absence of criticism which is baffling and hurting everyone.

[The Benjamins]

Just now, laminutederire said:

Yeah of course. But like people weren't that sceptical about 28 cores at 5GHz on regular cooling...

Threadripper could do 4.3GHz with a decent air cooler, but that 28 core part isn't near those 5 Ghz with the same cooler. (That's the strength and drawback of Ryzen. They hit a wall on both generations, rather fast, but higher core count parts can also go as high as that wall. So their high core count parts are quite powerful.)

But on topic, there are too many people saying Intel is better because their CPU can be pushed higher, not considering that you usually need A quite decent cooler to do that. Like people saying every coffee lake part hits at least 5GHz, when in practice, not all of them, and even when they do they remain quite hot if you don't put a lot of money on cooling them. But there's this absence of criticism which is baffling and hurting everyone.

The clock speed of AMD's 32c and 24c demo CPUs is 3.0 Base 3.4 all core boost.

[laminutederire]

3 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

The clock speed of AMD's 32c and 24c demo CPUs is 3.0 Base 3.4 all core boost.

Wasn't last gen threadripper able to be overclocked to 4GHz without needing a phase change system though? As in overclocked to the same frequency wall quite easily.

[Đỗ Đức Huy]

remember bois, the only reason why AMD is still around is so Intel does not get sued for having a monopoly. TR2 being 32 cores is well within reasons ever since De8auer delid TR1 and tries to get EPYC running on X399. You think Intel wont do crazy stuff the moment AMD looks competitive again? Look at this!

Dual LGA 1366 enthusiast board. Boom done! Remember skull trail? yeah. Intel only keeps AMD alive so that they can milk the market without fear of anti monopoly regulations

[ScratchCat]

1 minute ago, The Benjamins said:

The clock speed of AMD's 32c and 24c demo CPUs is 3.0 Base 3.4 all core boost.

That is to keep within the 250W TDP, effectively TR can double the core count at just under double the power consumption (no extra memory controllers).

4 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Yeah of course. But like people weren't that sceptical about 28 cores at 5GHz on regular cooling...

Certainly worrying. Even the i9 XE is set to run at 2.6 GHz for 28 cores, double clock speed and almost core count within a generation? More obvious than that one shouldn't trust Facebook

6 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Threadripper could do 4.3GHz with a decent air cooler, but that 28 core part isn't near those 5 Ghz with the same cooler. (That's the strength and drawback of Ryzen. They hit a wall on both generations, rather fast, but higher core count parts can also go as high as that wall. So their high core count parts are quite powerful.)

But on topic, there are too many people saying Intel is better because their CPU can be pushed higher, not considering that you usually need A quite decent cooler to do that. Like people saying every coffee lake part hits at least 5GHz, when in practice, not all of them, and even when they do they remain quite hot if you don't put a lot of money on cooling them. But there's this absence of criticism which is baffling and hurting everyone.

If AMD can fix the 4.3-4.4 GHz wall Intel will be in trouble. It is worth noting that this is actually what keeps Ryzen rather power efficient, if you can't reach the high frequency you need not waste voltage on progressing towards it.

People also forget to mention that you need a high end Z series board to OC Coffee Lake while Ryzen enables overclocking on virtually everything.

[ScratchCat]

3 minutes ago, Đỗ Đức Huy said:

remember bois, the only reason why AMD is still around is so Intel does not get sued for having a monopoly. TR2 being 32 cores is well within reasons ever since De8auer delid TR1 and tries to get EPYC running on X399. You think Intel wont do crazy stuff the moment AMD looks competitive again? Look at this!

 

Dual LGA 1366 enthusiast board. Boom done! Remember skull trail? yeah. Intel only keeps AMD alive so that they can milk the market without fear of anti monopoly regulations

Although keeping the performance crown is important most consumers will get what they perceive to be best. This means that even though Intel could have a higher performance platform it would be ridiculously expensive (2x CPUs + premium markup + niece product markup).

Looking at the mess which was the X299 platform I must say that AMD caught Intel unaware, not something which should happen to someone in a pseudomonopoly position.

[InertiaSelling]

GN has just released a video about this. It's called 28 cores of bullshit.

 

[The Benjamins]

11 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Wasn't last gen threadripper able to be overclocked to 4GHz without needing a phase change system though? As in overclocked to the same frequency wall quite easily.

The 1950x had a 3.4 Base and a all core boost of 3.6 i think. (XFR only), and these TR 2000 are not retail parts so the clocks may change.

[Motifator]

4 minutes ago, Đỗ Đức Huy said:

remember bois, the only reason why AMD is still around is so Intel does not get sued for having a monopoly. TR2 being 32 cores is well within reasons ever since De8auer delid TR1 and tries to get EPYC running on X399. You think Intel wont do crazy stuff the moment AMD looks competitive again? Look at this!

 

Dual LGA 1366 enthusiast board. Boom done! Remember skull trail? yeah. Intel only keeps AMD alive so that they can milk the market without fear of anti monopoly regulations

There is no point in delidding anything AMD that is from current generations, they all have solder. That EVGA board was for the end user, it did NOT compete with AMD Opterons based on the Istanbul die, those were server chips. Please get your facts right.

[Ryujin2003]

Someone already beat me to GN's article.

 

I wonder what happens now to everyone who said F*ck Threadripper 2 because Intel is badass... Does this change anything?

[Blademaster91]

30 minutes ago, ScratchCat said:

That is to keep within the 250W TDP, effectively TR can double the core count at just under double the power consumption (no extra memory controllers).

Certainly worrying. Even the i9 XE is set to run at 2.6 GHz for 28 cores, double clock speed and almost core count within a generation? More obvious than that one shouldn't trust Facebook

If AMD can fix the 4.3-4.4 GHz wall Intel will be in trouble. It is worth noting that this is actually what keeps Ryzen rather power efficient, if you can't reach the high frequency you need not waste voltage on progressing towards it.

People also forget to mention that you need a high end Z series board to OC Coffee Lake while Ryzen enables overclocking on virtually everything.

Except that a Z series board isn't really that expensive especially with ram still being more expensive than a decent board, if you want an X470 board with the same features you're spending about the same, and overclocking Ryzen doesn't really matter when there isn't much room than what you already get out of the box. Is the TDP still at 250W on X399 having 2x cpu 8 pin connectors?

37 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Wasn't last gen threadripper able to be overclocked to 4GHz without needing a phase change system though? As in overclocked to the same frequency wall quite easily.

It took liquid nitrogen to get threadripper to 5Ghz, iirc wasn't totally stable at 4Ghz either, along with bios bugs and with the varying quality of the socket retention screw some requiring excessive force to tighten down. People forgot about that and shit on only Intel for a rushed launch.

 

[XenosTech]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

with the varying quality of the socket retention screw,some requiring excessive force to tighten down. People forgot about that and shit on only Intel for a rushed launch.

 

This had nothing to do with AMD though... That was all at OEM's like ASUS and MSI for not doing QA on their stuff

[TenThousand]

I think the reason people are going bananas over it is because Intel is on it. If some random overclocker (even derbauer) got it to 5ghz on ln2, no one would've cared.

 

It's not impossible that intel themselves paid people to write articles about it to begin with, just to steal a bit of amd's thunder. Even knowing that it will backlash. They'll take some momentary flak, but as long as people aren't talking about amd, then that's all that matters.

 

It's the same way big companies break laws. The fine is nothing compared to what they gain.

[cj09beira]

1 hour ago, Đỗ Đức Huy said:

remember bois, the only reason why AMD is still around is so Intel does not get sued for having a monopoly. TR2 being 32 cores is well within reasons ever since De8auer delid TR1 and tries to get EPYC running on X399. You think Intel wont do crazy stuff the moment AMD looks competitive again? Look at this!

Dual LGA 1366 enthusiast board. Boom done! Remember skull trail? yeah. Intel only keeps AMD alive so that they can milk the market without fear of anti monopoly regulations

except thats a race intel doesn't want to enter, first because amd has much better margins on the high end than intel does so prices for the amd cpus will always be lower, secondly because it will cannibalize intel's own market, thirdly because amd can just release/unlock the multiplier on epyc and intel's little 6 channel platform will seem insignificant, and even with 2 cpus intel doesn't reach what amd is doing with 1 

we see ryzen as a good competitor for the intel core cpus, but on the server side amd is farther ahead (for non avx loads of course) their cpus from what i have seen usually cost half of what intel is asking for (msrp)

 oh and i had forgoten the biggest one, amd is already sampling their 7nm cpus, you know the ones with 48-64 cores per cpu, ya ya intel is totally just letting amd keep afloat

[Drak3]

9 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

server side amd is farther ahead (for non avx loads of course)

AMD's best EPYC is keeping up with Intel's best Xeon in AVX.

[Pretzel4000]

When I watched Paul's video I realized something was up, as he does show the base frequency and the chiller, but Intel taking back the CPU brings as an interesting development...

[cj09beira]

22 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

AMD's best EPYC is keeping up with Intel's best Xeon in AVX.

ya they were really smart when making epyc and gave it enough bandwidth to compensate for lack of avx2

[Christophe Corazza]

On 6-6-2018 at 9:36 PM, huilun02 said:

But of course when Green/Blue team supporters find themselves knee deep in dirt they just give a canned response "AMD is also (or will somehow be) guilty of the shit we pull so we do not deserve to be judged"

 

As part of the Green/Blue team, I must say that you’re spot on 

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

ya they were really smart when making epyc and gave it enough bandwidth to compensate for lack of avx2

Zen lacks in AVX1, AVX2 sees bandwidth limitation.

[CTR640]

4 hours ago, TheGlenlivet said:

Their timing was... interesting.  They HAD to know that AMD had a 32 core TR2 out this week.  Why go through all the effort to show off a product that wasn't (5Ghz though) as good to begin with?

It does seem desperate and immature.

Most of the fucked up moronic companies ARE immature these days.

 

And anyone who really thought Intel would be releasing a 5GHz CPU out of the box simply got brain deep in the rectum and poop in skull. It's already too fishy this shit company is showing off a 28core 5GHz CPU. And do you know what's more fucked up? A stupid kid gaming on a 28core CPU, really?? https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/5/17428570/intel-28-core-processor-teaser-computex-2018

[TheGlenlivet]

 

'Nuff said.

[Dylanc1500]

19 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Zen lacks in AVX1, AVX2 sees bandwidth limitation.

Also no AVX-512.

 

On another thought: Since, for all intents and purposes, this was an Octo-socket capable sku, I'm wondering what the board could have looked like with eight of these all clocked that high. Even better, what would the power supply have looked like. Sooooo much rgb ram as well....

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, cj09beira said:

except thats a race intel doesn't want to enter, first because amd has much better margins on the high end than intel does so prices for the amd cpus will always be lower, secondly because it will cannibalize intel's own market, thirdly because amd can just release/unlock the multiplier on epyc and intel's little 6 channel platform will seem insignificant, and even with 2 cpus intel doesn't reach what amd is doing with 1 

we see ryzen as a good competitor for the intel core cpus, but on the server side amd is farther ahead (for non avx loads of course) their cpus from what i have seen usually cost half of what intel is asking for (msrp)

 oh and i had forgoten the biggest one, amd is already sampling their 7nm cpus, you know the ones with 48-64 cores per cpu, ya ya intel is totally just letting amd keep afloat

Of course AMD has higher margins, while they take some existing dies and glue interconnect it together on a huge server socket.

You don't get the server market though, if a company needs multiple chips on a board they're for sure not going to be overclocking and are buying OEM servers.

 Also only seems to be fine for AMD to make money, same people that always said $900 cpu's and $400 motherboards were insane but now it's fine because AMD is doing it, and you're falling for the 7nm buzzword hype while Intel 14nm will still outperform it.

1 hour ago, huilun02 said:

I don't think even AMD stretches their marketing this far

They might have cherry picked stuff but nothing as crazy as showing performance that no customer can be expected to replicate

Can't even buy that unlocked Xeon to begin with

But of course when Green/Blue team supporters find themselves knee deep in dirt they just give a canned response "AMD is also (or will somehow be) guilty of the shit we pull so we do not deserve to be judged"

Plenty of other companies do the same at press events, Noctua with their prototype fans and AMD hyping up a 7nm GPU that you can't buy. But nope can't judge AMD of the same sh*t they do in addition to over hyping and skewing benchmarks, I must be a green/blue supporter for doing so.