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Rare element to provide better material for high-speed electronics

speedbeastxx
6 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

At some point you hit physical limits. Like it's not like you can always make it smaller all the time.

No I completely agree, but I'm just saying, just because the say 3nm now, doesn't mean it's right. PS they have made a transistor from a single atom in the past.

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7 hours ago, Sauron said:

=virtually useless for consumer products. One of the benefits of using silicon is that it is (or was) extremely common. This won't cut it for mass production.

Not necessarily. There are many rare elements used in tiny quantities in mass production.

it's time

 

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21 minutes ago, Ben Quigley said:

No I completely agree, but I'm just saying, just because the say 3nm now, doesn't mean it's right. PS they have made a transistor from a single atom in the past.

Id prefer them working on graphed transistors and the like instead as it should provide a leap in both efficiency and performance

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4 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Id prefer them working on graphed transistors and the like instead as it should provide a leap in both efficiency and performance

we will just have to wait and see where this goes.

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2 minutes ago, speedbeastxx said:

we will just have to wait and see where this goes.

Oh they won't until they've squeezed everything out of silicon. Big companies are often slow to change even if it'd be for the best. They think it's easier to develop 5nm on Silicon instead of doing 16nm on graphene, because they know more silicon.

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Just now, laminutederire said:

Oh they won't until they've squeezed everything out of silicon. Big companies are often slow to change even if it'd be for the best. They think it's easier to develop 5nm on Silicon instead of doing 16nm on graphene, because they know more silicon.

At this moment in time yes but in the future when manufacturing graphene and the material in the article gets more affordable and easier, things will switch to it.

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Just now, speedbeastxx said:

At this moment in time yes but in the future when manufacturing graphene and the material in the article gets more affordable and easier, things will switch to it.

For them to be easier and more affordable they'd have to work on it. Personally I'd say they'll squeeze silicon until something like 2025, then they'll be stuck for 5-10 years on graphed and then well have good stuff.

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1 minute ago, laminutederire said:

For them to be easier and more affordable they'd have to work on it. Personally I'd say they'll squeeze silicon until something like 2025, then they'll be stuck for 5-10 years on graphed and then well have good stuff.

you probably correct.

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If it's rare, why incorporating it in mass produced  electronics?

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2 minutes ago, jefire411 said:

If it's rare, why incorporating it in mass produced  electronics?

Very little is needed and its added to a larger solution.

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5 hours ago, CTR640 said:

Didn't some scientists or a certain group of people have increased and improved the rechargeable batteries for eg smartphones?

So you no longer need to recharge the smartphone every day? It's been a long time ago since I read about that somewhere but the smartphone manufacturers doesn't like that so they have prevented it?

There's been lots of battery tech that has never been utilized in actual products, some have good reasons but others just seem like not wanting to incur the cost of adopting better technology. There is a very new one, very new, that is able to go back to using lithium metal and a plastic (I think, something like that) membrane to allow the ion tansfer. You can cut it with scissors and it'll keep working, you can take a flame to it and it won't burn, you can layer it and roll it etc damn amazing and if that goes no where then I know the battery industry is BS and failing us.

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This doesn't really mean much ... There are ALREADY materials that have a higher electron mobility than silicon . We just don't use them because of cost of manufacturing and the fact most of our current manufacturing tech is based on silicon.

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14 hours ago, RollTime said:

 

Not necessarily. There are many rare elements used in tiny quantities in mass production.

Yes, but this is a silicon replacement... and 99% of a cpu is silicon.

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4 hours ago, Sauron said:

Yes, but this is a silicon replacement... and 99% of a cpu is silicon.

That’s true. Hopefully we can find some way to either synthesize this or tellurium.

it's time

 

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On 5/26/2018 at 6:14 PM, Coaxialgamer said:

This doesn't really mean much ... There are ALREADY materials that have a higher electron mobility than silicon . We just don't use them because of cost of manufacturing and the fact most of our current manufacturing tech is based on silicon.

I don't think that's entirely correct. A semiconductor requires a material that doesn't have high electron mobility. That's why it's called a SEMI-conductor. If we wanted high electron mobility we'd just use a conductor, like a metal.
Transistors are made by taking a non-conducting material and binding it with another atom to make it a conducting material. Clever sorcery with this semi-conducting material creates cpus.


Aside from the poor choice of words, I assume you are referring to that we already have smaller atoms that can act as semiconductors. Graphene was mentioned earlier, which consists of carbon (70pm atomic radii), much lower than silicon (111pm atomic radii). I'm not sure how transistors are built but intuitively that tells me graphene could be be on a manufacturing node about half as small, but the reason we don't switch over to using carbon is more so because it would require a major overhaul of the current technology.


Explanation of transistors and semi-conductors, for those who are curious:

Spoiler

Transistors are made up of diodes, which is made up of two things: a p-doped material and a n-doped material. Essentially what you do is you take a non-conducting material (silicon) and force it to bond with atoms that have a different amount of electrons. Atoms bond by sharing electrons. So when forced to bond with another atom with more electrons, that material will have a "free electron" that can move around (n-doping, n for negative, since electrons are negative). Similarly, when bonded to another atom with less electrons, the material will have a "gap" that can move around (p-doping, p for positive, since a missing electron where there should be an electron results in positive charge). By mixing these two types of materials (either in NPN or PNP configuration) you can make a larger current switch on/off (0/1 boolean) using a smaller current. Exactly how this is done is beyond me because I only took a material science class, not a processor design class :P


 

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I'm not entirely sure how much this impacts transistor technology.

The article notes that the sheet can carry a large current over a wide surface area. This means less heat, which solves one of the issues with die shrinks, and possibly allows to have higher clockspeeds. But how does it actually play out in terms of how it works with silicon and stuff, I'm pretty confused.

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39 minutes ago, Raytsou said:

I don't think that's entirely correct. A semiconductor requires a material that doesn't have high electron mobility. That's why it's called a SEMI-conductor. If we wanted high electron mobility we'd just use a conductor, like a metal.
Transistors are made by taking a non-conducting material and binding it with another atom to make it a conducting material. Clever sorcery with this semi-conducting material creates cpus.


Aside from the poor choice of words, I assume you are referring to that we already have smaller atoms that can act as semiconductors. Graphene was mentioned earlier, which consists of carbon (70pm atomic radii), much lower than silicon (111pm atomic radii). I'm not sure how transistors are built but intuitively that tells me graphene could be be on a manufacturing node about half as small, but the reason we don't switch over to using carbon is more so because it would require a major overhaul of the current technology.


Explanation of transistors and semi-conductors, for those who are curious:


 

I know how semiconductors work , thanks .

We use semiconductors vs metals/conductors specifically because their conductivity can be controlled through doping ( in manufacturing ) and locally , during transistor operation.

But i was specifically referring to semiconductors here, which i thought was implied.

looking at the properties of different commonly used semiconductors , we can see that both Germanium and GalliumArsenide have a higher mobility vs Si .

http://eesemi.com/sigegaas.htm

 

that's not necessarily all that matters of course , but the orifinal article was stating mobility as the obvious benefit 

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Seems like Intel has some work to do.

While we are at it NVIDIA you've delayed the next-gen launch .. forever so why don't you implement this while you are at it ;)

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13 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

I know how semiconductors work , thanks .

We use semiconductors vs metals/conductors specifically because their conductivity can be controlled through doping ( in manufacturing ) and locally , during transistor operation.

But i was specifically referring to semiconductors here, which i thought was implied.

looking at the properties of different commonly used semiconductors , we can see that both Germanium and GalliumArsenide have a higher mobility vs Si .

http://eesemi.com/sigegaas.htm

 

that's not necessarily all that matters of course , but the orifinal article was stating mobility as the obvious benefit 

I think I understand what you're saying. Correct me if I'm wrong:
You're referring to the speed at which the "free" electrons and "gaps" can move through the material?

at the same time, I feel as though the point of the article isn't just about mobility, but also because it can be done over a large surface area, reducing heat and increasing stability. Another point made was, quote: "make transistors made from two-dimensional materials easier to produce on a large scale" and "very high production yield".
Depending on how much is "easier to produce" and "high yield", it could possibly be more attractive than Ge and GaAs.

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