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Outraged by the implementation of Women in Battlefield 5

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1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

It feels out of place and forced, and I think most people feel that way.

The thing is, a lot of people such as myself - a battlefield fan - didn't care and it didn't felt out of place and forced. Why is that?
The discussion is in WHY does it feel out of place and forced for some people?

I explained it in my post and I'm gonna develop it explicitly again because there are various psychological phenomenons at work here and I could cite some for you:
1. Status Quo bias: people prefer when things remain the same. In BF5's case, they obviously changed something
2. Norms & Values: The discomfort of transgressed norms, not only that, but the expression of it. In fact, a during a very recent study of the university of ULB (I assisted to the lecture last month) the discrimination of LGBT people at work: in short, there was a theory that could be inducted with the data gathered: People that transgress the norm are not discriminated because they transgressed it, but because they show that they transgressed.

For instance, you get records of such conversations: "I hate muslim/gay people!" -"Well, I'm actually muslim/gay" -"Oh, you're okay because we don't notice it"
In case of BF5, they flagantry transgressed the norm of by presenting a woman as the new face of the game
3. The cognitive dissonance: which is the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes: It's an extremely strong psychological state in which people won't accept their own incoherence (it's actually part of a defense mechanism to preserve self-integrity and thereby mental sanity), that's why even the most developed arguments won't even work.

No one wants to be sexist because it's socially undesirable. I believe many of the people complaining about the woman in the game also believe in equality between genders and women's rights. I believe they do not mean to be demeaning to women in any way. BUT the incoherence I exposed in the sole argument brought by those people which complains about historical inaccuracy (...):

1. Battlefield never pretended (in any game) to be historically accurate
2. There are many other bigger inaccuracies that didn't bother people that much

(...) shows that, the outrage may actually be (intended or not) sexism deflected (by the cognitive dissonance) behind the curtain of "historical accuracy". Because they ofcourse don't mean to be sexist, but they need to find a thing ("historical inaccuracy) to blame their discomfort on.
 

I'm sure there are many other phenomenons such as the lack of the ability of decentring which means being able to step outside of one's own truisms, cognitive scheme and preconceived, culturally anchored thoughts and ideas.

All in all, the status quo bias, norm&values, the cognitive dissonance are the main psychological phenomenons (I could observe in the people commenting against of the implementation of women in the game) that could explain their discomfort and the reason why they oppose this change. 

 

This is my last comment for this thread.

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18 hours ago, Beer_Nontitju said:

When making such a claim, be sure to quote multiple arguments of mine instead of one and clearly display the incoherence's if there is any. Otherwise, your claim remains baseless.

 

I'm making the same point and repeating myself to almost every new comments like yours with the same logical path by exposing the same contradiction (that is made by the "contra-female soldier in WW2 virtual game" opinions) that all ends with the same conclusion every time. 

So no, no logical fallacies.
 

Honestly, I would have considering the amount you've posted would have been a whole page worth but regardless it would have been fruitless based on your behavior thous far.

Also, yes you've displayed plenty of logical fallacies but rest assured. I'm sure those will not be your last in this thread alone.

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2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

I agree that the claim that Siege is a "small game" is certainly not accurate.

 

Though, how exactly do you measure a game that has since switched to a F2P model, which will inherently attract more players that aren't willing to pay for a game? It's a difficult comparison to make in any circumstances.

 

Though I could definitely believe ~15m copies sold before F2P model, and an additional 5m players attracted via the F2P model. These are plausible figures for sure.

R6S went F2P?

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2 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

R6S went F2P?

Didn't it?

 

Correction: Not F2P, but they changed their monetization system by reducing the cost of entry with a $20 "Starter Edition".

 

So, you can either buy the "full" game for $50, or you can buy the "Starter Edition" for $20. The Starter Edition has a different (slower) system of unlocking operators.

 

I must have confused that with it going full F2P (or I was thinking of a totally different game, perhaps).

 

Either way, my bad.

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4 hours ago, asus killer said:

19 pages of drama over this. Hell yes, internet is working just fine. :D

i dont see how this could cause so much controversy. its people who want "avarage" ww2 meets game design and what battlefield really is. 

 

Spoiler

Spoiler: Avarage WW2 was slaughter at the eastern front or slaughter in China. also a whole lot of factory work

 

i cant be bothered reading to many pages of this. ive read at least 10. and three of those were repeats of the same stuff. 

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@Beer_Nontitju

Just a bit of an FYI BTW, the implementation of Women in BF5 is the least of anything from the trailer that people have taken issue with. And Kotaku's "article" has far more in common with a hit piece than an actual news article.

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4 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

@Beer_Nontitju

Just a bit of an FYI BTW, the implementation of Women in BF5 is the least of anything from the trailer that people have taken issue with. And Kotaku's "article" has far more in common with a hit piece than an actual news article.

The vistas of this thread that have become exceedingly difficult to navigate disprove your argument.

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11 minutes ago, Deus Voltage said:

The vistas of this thread that have become exceedingly difficult to navigate disprove your argument.

You just have to look at the way the "article" is written, and the comments under the trailer's video.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

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1 hour ago, Warboy said:

-snip-

That explanation is ridiculous, but I do agree that having female characters is a good thing as players do like to play female characters. The same can be said for disabled characters or just being able to customize your character in general to look the way you want.

 

On the other hand, doing it to appease society or to not have to explain how sexism is a thing or how men actually are superior in certain aspects (as are women in others) is absolutely ridiculous.

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1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

That explanation is ridiculous, but I do agree that having female characters is a good thing as players do like to play female characters. The same can be said for disabled characters or just being able to customize your character in general to look the way you want.

 

On the other hand, doing it to appease society or to not have to explain how sexism is a thing or how men actually are superior in certain aspects (as are women in others) is absolutely ridiculous.

Wouldn't that count as, uh "mansplaining"?

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At first I just thought she was captain hook. Upon looking at the gameplay it looks like her whole arm is fake. The tech back then, she wouldn't even be able to level a rifle with a fake arm. Nope annoyed that she's a cripple then a women, boobs are nice.

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3 hours ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

At first I just thought she was captain hook. Upon looking at the gameplay it looks like her whole arm is fake. The tech back then, she wouldn't even be able to level a rifle with a fake arm. Nope annoyed that she's a cripple then a women, boobs are nice.

Holding a rifle is simpler than you think. That entire arm is relegated to one job and that is support. 

Crippled serving im ww2, especially officers, were actually a thing. 

The tech was actually there, like they arent advanced prostetics, but its a thing.

 

Another thing to consider is that she is a marksman. Something that is expencive to train and optics arent exactly cheap. The likelyhood of them keeping her in service is increased. 

9ab225f.png

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Why does it matter to people?

 

It doesn't matter at all to me. 

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16 minutes ago, Mihle said:

Why does it matter to people?

 

It doesn't matter at all to me. 

I wish we could answer this questions........

 

All i want is my il 2, my Su 100Y, my KV2, and last but not least the russian AAA trucks with twin 25 mm

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7 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

Crippled serving im ww2, especially officers, were actually a thing. 

Not however on the front lines, and not using a rifle in combat. Can it be used to provide a rifle rest when in a fixed position, sure. Using it in a combat situation in a different ball of wax entirely. Not to mention that the arm in question is also used when aiming the weapon, and without the fine manipulation the wrist and fingers grant that becomes significantly more difficult and awkward.

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26 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

-snip-

Prostetics limbs were used in combat in the 20th centuary. Frontline, probably no, but she is a marksman. Yes it becomes more difficult, but as a marksman you arent supposed to serve during a mechanised assault using mechanized infantry. 

 This is a battlefield game, not the western front. 

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4 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

Holding a rifle is simpler than you think. That entire arm is relegated to one job and that is support. 

Crippled serving im ww2, especially officers, were actually a thing. 

The tech was actually there, like they arent advanced prostetics, but its a thing.

 

Another thing to consider is that she is a marksman. Something that is expencive to train and optics arent exactly cheap. The likelyhood of them keeping her in service is increased. 

-snip-

 

41 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Prostetics limbs were used in combat in the 20th centuary. Frontline, probably no, but she is a marksman. Yes it becomes more difficult, but as a marksman you arent supposed to serve during a mechanised assault using mechanized infantry. 

 This is a battlefield game, not the western front. 

Source, because everything I've seen points to the fact that if she is a soldier, she would not be deployed at all after receiving such a injury. The likelihood is she is a rebel but from the way she's treated in the trailer, She seems to carry a military rank.

 

Also she used her prosthetic for more than just support. She used it as an actual arm most of the trailer, especially "helping" to swing the club. She used it to crawl and swivel also. She also seems to use it to grapple the bike. Correction, She balanced her rifle perfectly with it while swinging around onto the bike with her actual arm.


Also since his video was used earlier for "Immersion vs Realism." (here)

Here you go -

 

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So, I'm watching the trailer again, and the woman doesn't start out with a sniper rifle. She's running around with a tommy gun blazing. Which makes the entire thing even more farcical. Especially since as a british troop she would have been running around with a Lanchester, Sten, or Stirling.

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8 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

Holding a rifle is simpler than you think. That entire arm is relegated to one job and that is support. 

Crippled serving im ww2, especially officers, were actually a thing. 

The tech was actually there, like they arent advanced prostetics, but its a thing.

 

Another thing to consider is that she is a marksman. Something that is expencive to train and optics arent exactly cheap. The likelyhood of them keeping her in service is increased. 

9ab225f.png

Another thing to consider. There were not women in combat from britian. Hold a rifle is easy, holding a rifle in front line combat is not. Either way cripples were on the front lines if they were lucky they did paperwork or logistics. The idea of a cripple British women on the front line is rediculous. The idea of a soldier who lost a whole arm on the front lines even just not going to happen. Who cares how expensive the optics are hand them to someone who isn't crippled and send the cripple home. Cripples don't belong in combat period they are a liability nothing more.

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21 hours ago, Warboy said:

Wouldn't that count as, uh "mansplaining"?

Nah, there is no such thing as mansplaiing.  It's another of those made up things that people use to make some look guilty of sexism where none exists.

 

If some one needs something explained to them its because they don't understand not because of their sex,  the whole concept of mansplaining makes it sound like woman don't inherently need anything explained, and that attempting to educate them is sexist.  If people cant see what is wrong with that then they deserve the dystopian BS future we are getting.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Nah, there is no such thing as mansplaiing.  It's another of those made up things that people use to make some look guilty of sexism where none exists.

 

If some one needs something explained to them its because they don't understand not because of their sex,  the whole concept of mansplaining makes it sound like woman don't inherently need anything explained, and that attempting to educate them is sexist.  If people cant see what is wrong with that then they deserve the dystopian BS future we are getting.

Let's be clear, while "mansplaining" is a 'catch-all' term that is often abused and used incorrectly, there are definitely instances of sexism in which, for example, a man with zero medical knowledge tries to "explain" something to a female doctor, simply because she's a woman and he's a sexist douche.

But the opposite can be true too, where, say, hypothetically, a female explains how to clean a toilet to a man, simply because he's a man and she assumes (perhaps incorrectly) that he must not know how to do it.

I have no stats on occurrence or which one is more common, though.

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1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

Let's be clear, while "mansplaining" is a 'catch-all' term that is often abused and used incorrectly, there are definitely instances of sexism in which, for example, a man with zero medical knowledge tries to "explain" something to a female doctor, simply because she's a woman and he's a sexist douche.

But the opposite can be true too, where, say, hypothetically, a female explains how to clean a toilet to a man, simply because he's a man and she assumes (perhaps incorrectly) that he must not know how to do it.

I have no stats on occurrence or which one is more common, though.

what you are describing is not mansplaining, He is ignorant and he just happens to be a man. What you are describing is basically just sexism.  You don't have to be a man to be sexists or ignorant.  the term mansplaining highlights a gender insinuating that gender is the cause of the ignorance/sexism.  It is totally made up, there are other words and crimes that describe such behavior without nailing it to one gender.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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