Outraged by the implementation of Women in Battlefield 5

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, matrix07012 said:

That's why I didn't engage in this conversation sooner, because I'm going to wait until the game is out and decide if it's good and immersive or not.

If that's the position you've taken, why did you argue for multiple pages that having women fighters will break immersion?

[matrix07012]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

If that's the position you've taken, why did you argue for multiple pages that having women fighters will break immersion?

Because of COD: WW2.

[Misanthrope]

15 minutes ago, matrix07012 said:

-vid-

I see.

 

Well if we're posting videos I'll do it as a link but this one explains why so many gamers hold these kinds of views today.

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, matrix07012 said:

Because of COD: WW2.

Ultimately it comes down to personal preference, but I just simply cannot understand the outrage over female characters. In my opinion, it doesn't matter at all that there weren't many female soldiers in WW2.

 

The benefits (greater outreach and interest to more gamers), outweighs any possible downsides, in my opinion.

[Syntaxvgm]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Ultimately it comes down to personal preference, but I just simply cannot understand the outrage over female characters. In my opinion, it doesn't matter at all that there weren't many female soldiers in WW2.

 

The benefits (greater outreach and interest to more gamers), outweighs any possible downsides, in my opinion.

Campaign-make them Russian, dont make them (all characters) look like something from fallout or borderlands or some shit. 

MP- who the fuck cares 
 

 

In before we get no good snow maps. 

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Campaign-make them Russian, dont make them (all characters) look like something from fallout or borderlands or some shit. 

MP- who the fuck cares 

Art style is certainly something to discuss.

 

As for the campaign? We have no details at all. These women could be French or German resistance fighters, Russian, etc. There are many possibilities. Or they could be one of the approximately 2.5% of Allied soldiers who were women in disguise pretending to be men.

 

We don't know these details, so there's no reason to get bent out of shape over them.

[matrix07012]

10 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

I see.

 

Well if we're posting videos I'll do it as a link but this one explains why so many gamers hold these kinds of views today.

The video I posted is apolitical, but sure, I’m gonna watch it.

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

BF1 is one of the least historically accurate historical games I've ever played lol.

Even the WW1 mod for Battlefield 1942 (the best Battlefield by the way) was more accurate than BF1 lol

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

Art style is certainly something to discuss.

 

As for the campaign? We have no details at all. These women could be French or German resistance fighters, Russian, etc. There are many possibilities. Or they could be one of the approximately 2.5% of Allied soldiers who were women in disguise pretending to be men.

 

We don't know these details, so there's no reason to get bent out of shape over them.

I am just personally delighted that most of the people that were very ANGRY (yes, all caps angry even) at other people being critical of the art style and thematic choices of Cuphead will now be equally angry at Battlefield V detractors because it's fun and should be above criticism and critics are overreacting right?

 

..right?

 

[Syntaxvgm]

8 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Art style is certainly something to discuss.

 

As for the campaign? We have no details at all. These women could be French or German resistance fighters, Russian, etc. There are many possibilities. Or they could be one of the approximately 2.5% of Allied soldiers who were women in disguise pretending to be men.

 

We don't know these details, so there's no reason to get bent out of shape over them.

didn't look like pretending to me. Also I whine about them not being Russian because there were many women fighting there because everyone was fighting. Big meat grinder. Interesting characters made popular by exaggeration/Russian propaganda 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Zaytsev

 

yet very few games seem to care about showing anything soviet union. 

sigh 

 

and people could been like "no actually lot of women solders in soviet union" less angry people. 

[Syntaxvgm]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

I am just personally delighted that most of the people that were very ANGRY (yes, all caps angry even) at other people being critical of the art style and thematic choices of Cuphead will now be equally angry at Battlefield V detractors because it's fun and should be above criticism and critics are overreacting right?

 

..right?

 

I thought that game was just one big circlejerk? IDK never played it. Respect the work it took though. 

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

didn't look like pretending to me. Also I whine about them not being Russian because there were many women fighting there because everyone was fighting. Big meat grinder. Interesting characters made popular by exaggeration/Russian propaganda 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Zaytsev

 

yet very few games seem to care about showing anything soviet union. 

I don't understand this comment:

Quote

didn't look like pretending to me

 

Women "pretended" to be men, in the sense that they disguised themselves to look like men, so that they could be accepted into the army.

[matrix07012]

2 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

didn't look like pretending to me. Also I whine about them not being Russian because there were many women fighting there because everyone was fighting. Big meat grinder. Interesting characters made popular by exaggeration/Russian propaganda 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Zaytsev

 

yet very few games seem to care about showing anything soviet union. 

That’s true. Most games don’t really show anything about the USSR or the Nazi Germany.

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

yet very few games seem to care about showing anything soviet union. 

Most of these military shooters are made with the US' point of view in mind, showing anything else is seen as a risk that might lead to lower sales; in the end in Battlefield it never really mattered because everyone mostly plays the multiplayer anyway, and being a russian or an american at that point is irrelevant.

[Misanthrope]

6 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

I thought that game was just one big circlejerk? IDK never played it. Respect the work it took though. 

That's not the point. The point that people even suggesting that it directly evoked extremely racist cartoons and thus might be a questionable choice for certain people that might find issue with that or wished to discuss those aspects of the game was blown out of proportion in a big, massive "How dare you bring that up any game can depict anything and it should still be supported cause you just want to censor us!" Usually with far more explicit language and far longer rants about it.

 

I am simply stating, that surely this people will be making that same argument now that people are talking about the questionable choice of not being historically accurate by including a woman in a WWII combat role, because how dare you bring that up any game can depict whatever they want and should still be supported cause you just want to censor us for includying women.

 

I am sure the typical gamer dudebro will be able to make these points again and be internally consistent with their "free speech" absolutism in gaming right?

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

I am sure the typical gamer dudebro will be able to make these points again and be internally consistent with their "free speech" absolutism in gaming right?

I thought the "free speech" part had gone out the window now that they want something removed from a game 

 

as for the cuphead situation, if you haven't seen it I recommend you watch this video:

it discusses pretty much the same point you were making.

[ARikozuM]

Hopefully they make the hit-boxes the same between male and female characters without making the dimensions appear smaller. I do hope they go about it like CoD: Ghosts where you could choose male or female and what kind of armor you wear (hopefully with stats to match). 

[Oggy]

They should have made the female mascot an underage-looking digital waifu. Everybody would have been happy...

[Brooksie359]

45 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

The characters in Battlefield 3 and 4 never existed, for example.  Soap never existed either.  They are fictional characters, and you're fine with that.  You're fine with other inaccuracies because "adds a mechanic".  But, you're bitching for the sake of bitching that a woman is on the frontline in a work of fiction.  Wasn't the original argument that a woman was on the cover of the game?  Cuz that's what people were bitching about in the OP.  It's not a simple inaccuracy, but they were arguing because "women".  Did you not even read the original post of this entire thread?  I mean if women being in fiction pisses you off, but other inaccuracies don't piss you off then feel free to hate on that.  That's your choice, but it is still fucked up.

When making a story based on historical events then base it off the historical events and what actually happened there. Just because something is made up doesn't mean it isn't historically accurate. I take it you don't get what historically accurate even means because all your argument seem to revile around historically accurate to mean it is not fictional at all. Also you talk about people who are saying sexist things and making that an argument as to why it is sexist. That's not how that works. An argument doesn't become sexist just because there are sexist people who agree with it. My entire point was that it is historically inaccurate and that it kinda makes me annoyed and slightly mad. That isn't sexist and if you want to portray it as such go right ahead. If they had implemented it in a historically accurate way I would not care so the issues has nothing to do with women being in the game. If I was sexist I wouldn't want them in the game at all. You can't say my reason for not wanting them in the game like they are is sexist when the reason is completely separate from them being women. I mean it irritated me when there are other inaccuracies in the game but I usually get over them as they have some sort of mechanic in mind. If they didn't have a mechanic in mind then yeah I would be just as mad about it. 

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

I thought the "free speech" part had gone out the window now that they want something removed from a game 

 

as for the cuphead situation, if you haven't seen it I recommend you watch this video:

it discusses pretty much the same point you were making.

Hey this is the second link to a Shaun video on this page alone, neat.

[Syntaxvgm]

15 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I don't understand this comment:

 

Women "pretended" to be men, in the sense that they disguised themselves to look like men, so that they could be accepted into the army.

everyone in this trailer is clearly trying to hide nothing. Here were have a British woman with a robot arm and a cricket bat being shoved in our face and they expect no one to get mad? Could've promoted woman from french resistance (pretty sure thats who that one woman was) or just again something soviet. It seems so purposely forced for no good reason. 

And that's totally who these arms worked, sure

It's like they wanted outrage. They will blame sexism when the game doesn't sell because it sucks or isn't anything past good enough. 
The entire trailer up to that point was so bad it almost looked like a parody of COD SP. 

And no on can even pretend there was no outrage in BF1 when they just decided the entirety of fucking France and Russia didn't exist and eventually added them via dlc. That's omitting history, people feel like this is rewriting history to fit some sort of agenda. They know it's not going to be super accurate and they expect some cliche's/existing misconceptions to make their way in, but no one up to this point associated this

Spoiler

with ww2 

[Brooksie359]

58 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

"This is just unnecessary", except for perhaps the thousands of women who want to play as a female?

 

Seriously, this is a MP shooter. The MP Setting is not historically accurate. Unless Deathmatch/Capture Points was something I missed in history class?

 

as said by @valdyrgramr, this is fiction. The devs and writers decide what parts (if any) of history to portrait accurately. If they want to feature a story in which the main character is one of the few females to be on the front lines? So be it. And because allowing female characters in MP just makes sense, so be it.

They could have done this by implementing them in a way that is accurate.... my point is there isn't a reason why they had to be inaccurate. Also I never said anything that would imply the devs can't do with the game what they want. That's their right it's their game. That doesn't mean I have to like it. Telling people that they them being mad about something isn't ok is beyond dumb. 

[Brooksie359]

35 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Ultimately it comes down to personal preference, but I just simply cannot understand the outrage over female characters. In my opinion, it doesn't matter at all that there weren't many female soldiers in WW2.

 

The benefits (greater outreach and interest to more gamers), outweighs any possible downsides, in my opinion.

They made alot of people and as well so idk if that even matters. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up losing more than they gained.

[Ryujin2003]

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

They made alot of people and as well so idk if that even matters. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up losing more than they gained.

Show me a where the majority, or "a lot" is upset. A few loud voices doesn't speak for the majority, or any large percentage of the lot, so saying "a lot" needs to have measure in order to be able to discount any benefits gained.

[Matsozetex]

6 hours ago, Sauron said:

Having issues with accuracy ONLY WHEN IT'S WOMEN is sexism, it shouldn't be too hard to wrap your mind around that.

Didn't COD WW2 have a fiasco where most of their weapons were entirely inaccurate. That counts as historical inaccuracy. 

 

With BFV the things I was confused about was the speed of the Churchill tanks and the guns.

 

For the most part battle field claims authenticity (non functional parts of the game) and the female character models is one of many issues surrounding it.

 

TBH even if it is not authentic, I hope they raise the skill ceiling in this title, BF1 held hands with way too many game mechanics