Microsoft to replace defective Surface Pro 4 units which exhibit Screen Flickering [Update: Selectively issued refunds]

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

If you have nothing to add then add nothing.

I mean you seem to be subtracting, or at the very least trying to add a negative. 

 

This is is a news story, that isn’t going to change and it has no reason to change. 

 

Even if every company in the world gave lifetime support for their products it would still be news when one of those products failed. 

[Phentos]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It's not firmware, it's a hardware issue.  It'll either happen or it won't.

Thanks.

 

Still crossing my fingers though lol.

[ARikozuM]

<<< Apple fanboy right here. 

 

Meanwhile Apple still doesn't want to supply parts for repairs. 

 

Seriously, I called HP and was able to buy a keyboard and a screen for a laptop ($340), yet we can't buy a damn digitizer for replacement? 

[AlTech]

19 minutes ago, Phentos said:

Anyone know which firmware update caused this, if it's a specific one that is?

 

So far my SP4 has exhibited none of these issues but now I'm slightly concerned.

It's a hardware defect that causes this issue. Firmware or software is not responsible for it.

[mr moose]

21 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I mean you seem to be subtracting, or at the very least trying to add a negative. 

 

This is is a news story, that isn’t going to change and it has no reason to change. 

 

Even if every company in the world gave lifetime support for their products it would still be news when one of those products failed. 

If that's what you think then you haven't been reading my posts.

[Dabombinable]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

It's seems more like a design fault than wear and tear to me.  I would not expect issues like this to appear on any device in the first 5 years unless there was a design problem. This device is what? 3 years old tops?  In this case it appears to be a hardware issue that can be mitigated by putting it in the freezer (suggesting either a cooling issue or design defect in either a chip or the layout). 

 

Products only fail for one of three reasons (excluding external physical damage). 1. cheap product and poor quality. 2. general wear and tear or expected obsolescence or 3 design fault. I don't think this is 2 and it certainly isn't sold as 1 leaving 3.  And I personally believe warranty or not, if a company charges top dollar claiming the best of the best then they should be standing behind it for a reasonable period.   

 

 

 

From what I understand, in Australia there is no limit to the warranty period if an item has a manufacturing defect.

[suicidalfranco]

well i can appreciate that they didn't wait for a class action like others would have

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

From what I understand, in Australia there is no limit to the warranty period if an item has a manufacturing defect.

True, The ACCC refers to these as consumer guarantees as warranties are typical offered by manufacturers on a voluntary basis while consumer guarantees are actual consumer law that manufacturers must abide.  So regardless of warranty,   a laptop advertised as high quality and being sold at a price typically $500 more than a comparable laptop hardware wise, they must meet the following condition:

 

Quote

 

Products must be of acceptable quality, that is:

 

-safe, lasting, with no faults

-look acceptable

-do all the things someone would normally expect them to do.

 

Acceptable quality takes into account what would normally be expected for the type of product and cost.

 

I would call 3 years for a $2000  laptop well within consumer guarantee guidelines.

[John Ellmaker]

The surface has been plagued by problems every generation being compounded by its repairability and non existent upgrade paths.  The 4 would fail sfc out of the box iirc at release and can’t rememeber the number of times the Microsoft store had no repair option for a client when they were out of warranty but less than 3 years old.

[Kamjam21xx]

This>apple

[LAwLz]

6 hours ago, Kamjam21xx said:

This>apple

Apple have actually offered several extended warranties because of manufacturing defects in the past.

Just look at this video:

 

[Dabombinable]

12 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Apple have actually offered several extended warranties because of manufacturing defects in the past.

Just look at this video:

 

They effectively had to be dragged by the ear kicking and screaming to offer them though.

[ShortyfromLV]

Do you guys even know what are consumer protection laws ?

They HAVE to replace them. The word "promise" is there to make them look as if it's their own initiative.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, ShortyfromLV said:

Do you guys even know what are consumer protection laws ?

They HAVE to replace them. The word "promise" is there to make them look as if it's their own initiative.

I believe that's in the US, I believe there are very few protections once warranty expires.  

[ShortyfromLV]

41 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I believe that's in the US, I believe there are very few protections once warranty expires.  

 I guess the EU doesn't have this problem.

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, ShortyfromLV said:

 I guess the EU doesn't have this problem.

It may after he statutory 2 year warranty expires, but I am not really up to date with EU consumer law.  I know in Australia there the law is on the consumers side, but that doesn't mean you get satisfaction without a fight.   There are horror stories of people buying lemon cars and having all the consumer rights and laws on their side but the manufacturer still refuses to refund the purchase.

[AlTech]

56 minutes ago, ShortyfromLV said:

Do you guys even know what are consumer protection laws ?

They HAVE to replace them. The word "promise" is there to make them look as if it's their own initiative.

In the US, once warranty expires they don't legally have to do anything.

[TechyBen]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

In the US, once warranty expires they don't legally have to do anything.

But they can fine you for even trying to open up the device... for decades after the warranty expires. (PS3 DRM etc)

[divito]

On 11/05/2018 at 7:16 PM, mr moose said:

 

It's seems more like a design fault than wear and tear to me.  I would not expect issues like this to appear on any device in the first 5 years unless there was a design problem. This device is what? 3 years old tops?  In this case it appears to be a hardware issue that can be mitigated by putting it in the freezer (suggesting either a cooling issue or design defect in either a chip or the layout). 

 

Products only fail for one of three reasons (excluding external physical damage). 1. cheap product and poor quality. 2. general wear and tear or expected obsolescence or 3 design fault. I don't think this is 2 and it certainly isn't sold as 1 leaving 3.  And I personally believe warranty or not, if a company charges top dollar claiming the best of the best then they should be standing behind it for a reasonable period.   

 

 

 

A design fault would typically mean it's incidence rate would be all random, meaning we would have seen issues with brand new units. I only glossed over some of the stories, but it appears to present after some time, meaning it's more likely a part quality issue, or wear and tear having an effect on some aspect of the hardware over time (possibly related to part quality as well).

But I do agree that we've gotten to such a point, where good customer service and product pride is heralded as something to be commended when it should be more standard.

[Kamjam21xx]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Apple have actually offered several extended warranties because of manufacturing defects in the past.

Just look at this video:

 

Seen it

[Centurius]

On 12-5-2018 at 12:29 AM, AluminiumTech said:

Except the warranty has expired for almost all of the affected devices if not all of them.

 

They had no legal obligation to do this. So yes it is nice .

Under European law they very much had the obligation.

[suicidalfranco]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Apple have actually offered several extended warranties because of manufacturing defects in the past.

Just look at this video:

 

only after class actions on top of class actions 

[Commodus]

It's funny how a thread about defective Microsoft hardware somehow turns into another Only Apple Does Bad Things rant.  Apple belatedly responds to a systemic flaw in its hardware: devil incarnate.  Microsoft does the exact same thing: heroes!  Give them medals!

 

The boring reality is that large companies have a hard time completely avoiding glitches like this, and tend to be slow about responding as they collect data.

[LAwLz]

4 minutes ago, Commodus said:

It's funny how a thread about defective Microsoft hardware somehow turns into another Only Apple Does Bad Things rant.  Apple belatedly responds to a systemic flaw in its hardware: devil incarnate.  Microsoft does the exact same thing: heroes!  Give them medals!

 

The boring reality is that large companies have a hard time completely avoiding glitches like this, and tend to be slow about responding as they collect data.

Did someone touch a nerve?

This thread has in general been quite negative towards Microsoft, yet somehow you only react to someone saying something slightly negative about Apple.

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, divito said:

A design fault would typically mean it's incidence rate would be all random, meaning we would have seen issues with brand new units. I only glossed over some of the stories, but it appears to present after some time, meaning it's more likely a part quality issue, or wear and tear having an effect on some aspect of the hardware over time (possibly related to part quality as well).

 

Whilst I don't proclaim to know exactly  what the issue is, it  seems to be heat related and the article claims it was from the start in some cases, which means they likely have chosen parts not up to the environment conditions required for any length of time. That would be a design flaw.  E.G Using capacitors that are underrated for the temps they will be exposed to causing them to fail early would be a design flaw.

 

Quote

But I do agree that we've gotten to such a point, where good customer service and product pride is heralded as something to be commended when it should be more standard.

This is it in nutshell.

 

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

It's funny how a thread about defective Microsoft hardware somehow turns into another Only Apple Does Bad Things rant.  Apple belatedly responds to a systemic flaw in its hardware: devil incarnate.  Microsoft does the exact same thing: heroes!  Give them medals!

 

The boring reality is that large companies have a hard time completely avoiding glitches like this, and tend to be slow about responding as they collect data.

Whilst I agree apple did not need to be brought into this, You are wrong about MS doing the exact same thing, the last two major issues apple had were design faults also (I consider this a design fault), but they tried to hide one with an update that slowed the processor to hide the symptoms and the other is now part of a class action.  That is not the exact same thing as MS voluntarily replacing effected devices and offering reimbursement to those who have already paid to have them repaired.

 

So no, it's not O.K to bring apple to an MS debate, just like I hate people dragging MS into a lInux/mac/facebook debate, but lets not start ignoring facts to make a point.