Stop Charging your Phone Overnight!

[iRiverflow]

In the video, Linus says that the depth of discharge is important. So the optimal method is to charge anywhere between 25%-80% capacity. This means that there will be more charge sessions. Does more charge sessions also wear out the battery? If so, does this mean that the disadvantage of increasing the number charge sessions is outweighed by the benefit of keeping it in the 25%-80% capacity? 

[Zodiark1593]

4 hours ago, manikyath said:

meanwhile i've been doing exactly what linus is saying not to do for 5 years with my moto G.

 

this thing gets charged overnight, ran straight into the ground, and charged overnight again..

i do think part of that 5 year lifetime is the fact that after 5 years the battery still lasts almost a week straight.

The moto G doesn't exactly stress the battery much.

 

I usually go on the charger at north of 60%, though as I use my phone as a hotspot very heavily in the evening, as well as occasional long gaming stints, I keep it on the charger. I also use a 1.25A charger instead of the included fast charger. 

 

So theoretically, I'm doing everything right but the "stay away from 100%" bit, though with my usage case (this thing is literally my only source of home internet), I can't really avoid the last part without deeply discharging the battery.

[Streetguru]

I've been charging my one plus one overnight for like ever, battery still seems pretty fine.

[MrKillerCow]

is it possible to see the source/reference material used in this video? would like to get into the details myself

[KostWarCZE]

I have OnePlus 2 with LOS 15.1 and i let it charge overnight for 2 years.. Never had any issue with it and its still on 99% health (based on random "battery health" app from google store) and i would rather change its battery if neccesary if it gone bad..

Does it really matter to have on 25%-85% ?

[Cole5]

I work 12 hour days and samsung makes pathetic batteries, so i need that 100%

[Defconed]

I have an idea for this video's topic
It should be "How to not use your cell phone"
Asking people to use 10% of their battery is totally nonsense. According to this logic, not using your phone at all would be the best option.
Also, there're some problems in this vid
1. fast charging doesn't necessarily mean high voltage, even QC can be done at 6V 3A over the cable, and charging voltage DOES NOT necessarily get pass-throughed to the battery directly(while they can be, in order to get even better efficiency ).
2.According to that graph, lower SOC% and shallower usage could result in less batt degradation, but doesn't shallower usage of batt leads to more drain&charge cycles given that the workload is fixed??
3.Pushing the whole theory even further, we can even suggest people to have battery banks connected to their phone 24*7, since that will create 0 stress cycle (I know keeping batt at full voltage also causes degradation, but you know what do I mean).
In conclusion: There're technical imperfections in this video, and the theory is basically telling people how to not use their phone, which is not practical at all. People need fast-charging cuz they do need to pump that much energy into the phone, and they need it fast, cuz there won't always be a socket or power bank. If you can already sit and take hours to allow your battery to "Sip", why don't you use your laptop already?

Plus, if people're pushing their battery hard, it would also take years for batt to degrade to 10% of design volume. So what's the point of using it so carefully at the beginning? Waiting for batt to die by aging?
A real pratical advice will be "AVOID deep drains and extreme temps( e.g. in your car with windows closed)"

PLEASE work on technical details harder next time, this vid is totally unacceptable
@James Please forward this to the team if possible

[Defconed]

5 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

so is a plebian 5V 1A charger overnight safe? O_O I might have done this for my new phone (never dipping below 70% on regular days)

(also I try to not deep discharge my phones. that's the job for the external power banks ._.)

Dude, to be honest, it is YOU using the PHONE, not the other way.
Given your workload, your batt won't really degrade that fast, so just charge as you need.

There is a very very tiny chance of fire or something, so try not recharge at night. Or just use a fireproof (iron, for instance) box to contain your cell, just in case you are feeling not OK.

You can always get a brand new batt by spending a little.

[James]

7 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

so is a plebian 5V 1A charger overnight safe? O_O I might have done this for my new phone (never dipping below 70% on regular days)

(also I try to not deep discharge my phones. that's the job for the external power banks ._.)

Limiting your depth of discharge (DoD) is good, but you should shift the range from 70-100 to something like 40-70. 

Choice of charger isn't going to affect the damage charging overnight will do.

1 hour ago, Defconed said:

I have an idea for this video's topic
It should be "How to not use your cell phone"
Asking people to use 10% of their battery is totally nonsense. According to this logic, not using your phone at all would be the best option.
Also, there're some problems in this vid
1. fast charging doesn't necessarily mean high voltage, even QC can be done at 6V 3A over the cable, and charging voltage DOES NOT necessarily get pass-throughed to the battery directly(while they can be, in order to get even better efficiency ).
2.According to that graph, lower SOC% and shallower usage could result in less batt degradation, but doesn't shallower usage of batt leads to more drain&charge cycles given that the workload is fixed??
3.Pushing the whole theory even further, we can even suggest people to have battery banks connected to their phone 24*7, since that will create 0 stress cycle (I know keeping batt at full voltage also causes degradation, but you know what do I mean).
In conclusion: There're technical imperfections in this video, and the theory is basically telling people how to not use their phone, which is not practical at all. People need fast-charging cuz they do need to pump that much energy into the phone, and they need it fast, cuz there won't always be a socket or power bank. If you can already sit and take hours to allow your battery to "Sip", why don't you use your laptop already?

Plus, if people're pushing their battery hard, it would also take years for batt to degrade to 10% of design volume. So what's the point of using it so carefully at the beginning? Waiting for batt to die by aging?
A real pratical advice will be "AVOID deep drains and extreme temps( e.g. in your car with windows closed)"

PLEASE work on technical details harder next time, this vid is totally unacceptable
@James Please forward this to the team if possible

I disagree with you and refute your claims.

 

-6V is a lot for a Li-ion battery. Anything over 3.9 becomes stressful.

 

-We didn't ask people to use only 10% of their battery at a time, we just said that would be healthful for the battery. We highlighted the fact that many people work between 25%-80%. And it's not total nonsense; since working on this video, I've been intermittently charging my phone (in part with a wireless charger) with a depth of discharge maybe 20% or 40% change and it's been easy. The hardest part is remembering to STOP charging it.

 

- For optimal health, you need to strike a balance between DoD and charging to 100%, that's why we recommended a shallow depth of discharge in the mid-range of your battery's capacity.

 

-We never recommended that people " sit and take hours to allow your battery to "Sip"". In fact we recommend the opposite: charging for short durations. 

 

- If you need a lot of power in a hurry, you can still rely on fast charging- you just have to do it between about 20%-70%

 

- And, as we said in the video, people can prioritize per-day battery life or long term battery health as per their own needs.

 

Much of the information game from this site (which nearly every popular article about Li-Ion batteries ultimately cites):

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

 

We appreciate skepticism, and if we ever get something wrong we humbly concede and endeavor to set the record straight. However, we ask that you please provide references demonstrating as much. 

[Aprime]

23 hours ago, Nomar1245 said:

If you have a smart outlet, you can use tasker and IFTTT to disable the outlet when the phone reaches a specific percentage, and then power back on when the battery drains. A method that does not require root to prevent the battery from charging to 100%

I need to remember to do that.

[printf_cyber]

On 5/11/2018 at 1:20 AM, Bigbootyjudy said:

YYYYYAAAAYYYY, rejoice for old hardware like my s4 where I can just switch out a new battery whenever I want.

I know that feel bro...

[Defconed]

I agree with the rest of your refutations, but not these:
1.

12 hours ago, James said:

-6V is a lot for a Li-ion battery. Anything over 3.9 becomes stressful.

 

The voltage I'm talking about it the supplied voltage over the wire, there's no clear evidence that all the phones will always perform pass-through charging (delivering input voltage to batt without reducing the voltage), I'm still gathering exact technical details on this. Just because a phone's using 14.5 of voltage doesn't mean that it charges the battery with it.
I just asked someone about this, he said that only fast-charging that uses 5V (DASH, VOOC,SCP) have implemented pass-through charging.
But at 3:35 (on FPC version), Linus is complaining about iPhoneX using 14.5V while charging. And I suppose this is a factual error: batteries don't get charged at that voltage, at least not at 14.5v
2.

12 hours ago, James said:

If you need a lot of power in a hurry, you can still rely on fast charging- you just have to do it between about 20%-70%

BMICs will manage it automatically, fast charging will decrease its power over time, and eventually shutdown around 90% of displayed batt%

I will be keep working on these
errrr anyway, batt management is more of a private stuff. so...yeah

Edited May 12, 2018 by Defconed

[Kamjam21xx]

Idea came to me.

Could look into using a color checker with davinci resolve. Its got a tool you can just drag and drop on part of your shot, and it automatically calibrates your colors. 

 

Probs a bad ides for the workflow, but its nice to know its there i suppose.

 

[D13H4RD]

I charge my Note8 every night. So far, it seems fine.

 

Also, I’m obsessed with wireless charging (I have 3-4 pads for one phone)

[Mira Yurizaki]

On 5/11/2018 at 6:58 AM, iRiverflow said:

In the video, Linus says that the depth of discharge is important. So the optimal method is to charge anywhere between 25%-80% capacity. This means that there will be more charge sessions. Does more charge sessions also wear out the battery? If so, does this mean that the disadvantage of increasing the number charge sessions is outweighed by the benefit of keeping it in the 25%-80% capacity? 

The things I took from Battery University about lithium rechargeable batteries is that they, basically, hate being discharged. They had a charge on their website where they showed discharge depth and how many recharges you can expect. At 100% depth discharge gets you 600 recharges on a LiPo, but 10% depth discharge gets you 15,000 recharges. If you take the total amount of mAH you can get from the battery from those recharges, recharging sooner gives you more.

 

While I don't really see the practicality of recharging at 80%-90% (80% appears to give you the most mAH), their explanation the more the battery has to recharge in a session, the longer it's exposed to elevated temperatures during the recharge process. And the other take away I got from Battery University is basically lithium rechargeable batteries hate heat. Heat is the bigger killer than anything else.

 

Though charging the battery to 100% is bad if you planned on leaving the battery in storage for long periods of time. And heat also accelerates this process.

[James]

On 5/11/2018 at 10:44 PM, Defconed said:

I agree with the rest of your refutations, but not these:
1.

The voltage I'm talking about it the supplied voltage over the wire, there's no clear evidence that all the phones will always perform pass-through charging (delivering input voltage to batt without reducing the voltage), I'm still gathering exact technical details on this. Just because a phone's using 14.5 of voltage doesn't mean that it charges the battery with it.
I just asked someone about this, he said that only fast-charging that uses 5V (DASH, VOOC,SCP) have implemented pass-through charging.
But at 3:35 (on FPC version), Linus is complaining about iPhoneX using 14.5V while charging. And I suppose this is a factual error: batteries don't get charged at that voltage, at least not at 14.5v

2.

BMICs will manage it automatically, fast charging will decrease its power over time, and eventually shutdown around 90% of displayed batt%

I will be keep working on these
errrr anyway, batt management is more of a private stuff. so...yeah

2. Is correct. You phone will stop fast charging around 70% BUT charging to higher capacity (90-100%) is still stressful to the battery, regardless of how slowly you do it

[Princess Twilight Sparkle]

Nah, it’s so annoying when coworkers ask to borrow a charger at the start of their day just because they forget to charge at night.

[Canada EH]

On 5/10/2018 at 12:06 PM, James said:

holding high voltage for long periods stresses the battery.

common knowledge there

 

also low voltages

high voltages

 

for battery lasting longest

keep discharge rates to a minimum

and keep the battery voltages, depending on chemsitry, LiPo is good for long periods at 3.6-3.80V which is its storage voltage. Charging to 4.20V is within spec, I prefer charging 4.10 or 4.15V, but how'd anyone know on a device.

 

 

[Egg-Roll]

9 hours ago, James said:

2. Is correct. You phone will stop fast charging around 70% BUT charging to higher capacity (90-100%) is still stressful to the battery, regardless of how slowly you do it

Oh really? (first part)...

*It could be a display bug, but I doubt it I can climb to 100% faster than the A5, using the same charger. However quick math using a online calc shows it might just be using the 9V of my charger instead of 5 (at 96%), but because my reader is plugged into my whole setup I can't be 100% sure, lowest difference reading displays a possible 6.6V which could be 5V.

 

Or are you referring to the safety first because you have no access to the battery phones? Like IDK 99-100% of all top tier phones...

 

I've also incidentally recreated my battery warning function... (I cut out a chat head) Tho it was cooler than last time, notice how I still have the quick charge enabled even at 100% .

If only Sammy was smart enough to implement this.

2 hours ago, Canada EH said:

but how'd anyone know on a device.

I use a app called SystemPanel
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=nextapp.systempanel

 

Once installed (the link above not V2) it's under Menu > Monitor> Scroll to the Bottom.

They have a V2.

For it just simply load it and click the battery/memory/storage row, and scroll to the bottom.

 

There is also Ampere https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gombosdev.ampere&hl=en, neiter show input Volts... Math and a reader will be needed.

[xnamkcor]

I'll stop charging overnight when my phones stop losing up to a third of the battery overnight.

[Defconed]

On 2018/5/15 at 1:52 AM, James said:

2. Is correct. You phone will stop fast charging around 70% BUT charging to higher capacity (90-100%) is still stressful to the battery, regardless of how slowly you do it

so PLEASE check and fix about the problem that I mentioned in 1.
voltage over USB has nothing to do with voltage on batteries
My reasons are simple: the batt voltage detected by phone sensors do get pump up a little when plugged in, which means that this voltage is EXACTLY the voltage of batt+charging current * batt resistance
the displayed number never get bigger than around 4.4, while my phone charges at 6V
If you want to prove me wrong on this, you need to show that there's a persistent 14.5V over iPhone X's battery
And we both know that it would blow the whole battery up
So can we correct/explain it maybe?

On 2018/5/12 at 1:39 AM, James said:

and if we ever get something wrong we humbly concede and endeavor to set the record straight

Yeah I know that the vid didn't say "this is the charging voltage!" but instead it said
"But fast charging works by forcing a ton of electrons at high voltages"
"I mean we're talking about 14.5 volts on the iPhone X..."
 

I suppose this is something wrong, right?
 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Defconed

[James]

10 hours ago, Defconed said:

so PLEASE check and fix about the problem that I mentioned in 1.
voltage over USB has nothing to do with voltage on batteries
My reasons are simple: the batt voltage detected by phone sensors do get pump up a little when plugged in, which means that this voltage is EXACTLY the voltage of batt+charging current * batt resistance
the displayed number never get bigger than around 4.4, while my phone charges at 6V
If you want to prove me wrong on this, you need to show that there's a persistent 14.5V over iPhone X's battery
And we both know that it would blow the whole battery up
So can we correct/explain it maybe?

Yeah I know that the vid didn't say "this is the charging voltage!" but instead it said
"But fast charging works by forcing a ton of electrons at high voltages"
"I mean we're talking about 14.5 volts on the iPhone X..."
 

I suppose this is something wrong, right?
 

Could you kindly provide links to references for your claims relating to (1)?

[Defconed]

32 minutes ago, James said:

Could you kindly provide links to references for your claims relating to (1)?

http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NCP4371-D.PDF
take Qualcomm QC3 solution as a instance
NCP4371 deals with voltage requesting , and passes it to back end

this might not be a exact match, but I suppose it'll work
http://www.ti.com/product/bq24192
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/bq24192.pdf

Operating Vin Max:17V

On page 6 its says"fast charging current 4.5A"
So yes, this is obviously fast-charging compatiable
Operating Vin Max:17V

Battery Charge Voltage (Max) (V):4.4V
Yes 4.4, TexasInstruments can't deliver anything higher than that
because anything could damage the battery
I think this can already prove that fast charging does that voltage conversion, didn't it?
You just said that any voltage above 3.9v is stressful, and now you're asking me to prove that a phone didn't throw 14.5v at its battery.
What's the logic in this? 
Please dig a little deeper next time to avoid this sort of self-contradiction, this is exactly what I referred to as
"Unacceptable"
Pls relay this to team if possible

[System Error Message]

i want to clarify and clear a big misunderstanding. A lot of battery and battery controller manufacturers can tweak their batteries. For instance in the past apple used to tweak their batteries to have the maximum capacity at expense of life. This is why apple batteries would die quicker.

 

A lot of manufacturers actually know about battery charging and discharging, the thing about lithium ion is that it is consistent. How much you charge and discharge equally wears it however there is a minimum life (500 cycles) and if you treat it well you can get up to 1000 cycles. For instance my samsung galaxy s4 lasted for 5 years on stock battery because after tweaks i charged it from empty to full every 3-5 days. Following the minimum cycle before it wore out, 3*500 cycles is 1500 days, so more than 4 years before it started to lose its capacity. Think about electric/hybrid cars too, the purpose of the controller is to control the charge/discharge so that the battery performs consistently and will last as expected. It doesnt really make a difference between discharging fully and charging and only partial with lithiums if the battery controller considers 80% the max charge. It is very dependent on the battery controller.

[MattMatt]

The mentality many have here winds me up. I see this so frequently now on most topics, where people are in their own bubbles and don't stop to consider someone else might be different. If this information doesn't apply to you then you do your thing but this doesn't make the video wrong, stupid or less informative. 

 

We're also talking about levels of preservation that depend heavily on a lot of variables. There are so many yet some people try and argue they've had a phone for years and charged it fully all the time without issue... as if this advice is now null and void??? The difference in performance after years of use will likely be difficult to perceive unless you compare it with a new battery. Someone claiming their battery is fine after being abused might have 70% total capacity remaining after a few years and someone else who tried to care for it may have 75% or 80%. It will make a difference but not necessarily night and day, all batteries will die in the end. Also one person's idea of abusing a battery is likely very different to the next. Even where you live (temperature) will effect the lifespan.

 

No one is telling you to use just 10% of your battery, or keep it between 40-80% else certain death will follow. It's providing a framework of information that can alter your decisions over time and help preserve your battery better when you can and circumstances allow it. You can choose to follow the advice more closely or ignore it, or somewhere in between but the information isn't wrong or stupid. 

 

Even Tesla provides the option to charge to only 80% to reduce wear on the battery.

 

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/448466037441179649