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papajo

Its time to protest! (TOLD YA SO! nah-nah nah nah nah :P)

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Posted · Original PosterOP

A few months ago I started a topic about the illegal and unethical price gauging of PC hardware manufacturers (Starting the talk in OP focusing on graphics card prices but later on explaining with links and facts about how those silicon chips and pcbs are made and finally talking about the fixes memory  prices as well in the tabs that follow) 

Especially about price fixing memory chips nobody believed me (although its a no brainier since they are made out of silicon and other COMMONLY ABUNDANT materials so there can not be any "shortage" of the materials that comprise something are available in very low prices and in huge quantities!!! )

 

 

And here it is https://www.techpowerup.com/243767/samsung-micron-and-hynix-accused-of-dram-price-fixing

 

Yet an other lawsuit (while already one had taken place in the past for the same reason and in which the big manufactures lost or in other-words found guilty and had to pay the price!)

The problem here though is that we(as consumers) dont get nothing out of this only the ones who participated in the law suit.

They just pay the legal fines and keep on exploiting the rest of the world since the profit from price-gauging there is bigger than the fines they need to pay to a small group of people in the US!

We need to STOP this.

And the only way to stop it (since its impossible to organize on a global scale) is to alter our personal behavior and attitude towards them

meaning A) stop being fanboys and realize that everybody of us consumers gets hurt if we are being apologetic towards our favorite company ("but but but smamsung.. good... shortage... bad miners!! the economy!!"  etc )

 

B) BITCHING ABOUT THE PRICE on retail stores even if you buy something that you are forced to buy (e.g your ram died and you need a new pare expensive or not because you have to have your computer running) BITCH about it if its an online order send a letter of complaint!! 

And for the rest of you hold up in purchasing new retail GPUs/CPUs from Intel (and AMD if after that they start to make the same price fixing as intel but for the time being they are good although they did not release a 2800x while they already have the silicon ... but for now and due to the rest of them mobs I personally ignore that faul step from AMD) and RAM modules.

Try to buy used ones or refrain from buying new retail ones and sticking on your current gear as much as possible.

 

C) Stop supporting/unsubscribe and BITCH in the comments of  ANY type of media groups (in youtube, twitch, websites, pod casts etc) that are apologetic towards this thievery and use the same policy words such as "markets, the economy, shortage, mining" when they excuse the 100%+ retail price increases that happened within a month and keep on going! They either dont know better and need to learn or are SELL OUT SHILLS of those companies!! either way let them know you dont like what they are doing!


Those mofos have to step down!!!! 

 

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Hah buying used in a rural area of Norway..... 

 

Wait when did Intel price fix things? I thought their things were expencive like any other thing.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, GoldenLag said:

Hah buying used in a rural area of Norway..... 

 

Wait when did Intel price fix things? I thought their things were expencive like any other thing.

keeping prices high on three year old tech and specs while not releasing what they already have in house ready to retail (like the 6 cores which they already had but only released once AMD came up with better products than theirs) is an other way of price fixing since you are a monopoly and just milk your customers that way.

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Just now, CapitalistVN said:

Uh... This might be more suitable in the General Discussion topic, not here

It isnt completely wrong, since this does touch on CPU, GPU and memmory. Considering the amount of topics memmory spanns it should be in general. Because what doesnt have a variant of ddr3/4

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Just now, papajo said:

keeping prices high on three year old tech and specs while not releasing what they already have in house ready to retail (like the 6 cores which they already had but only released once AMD came up with better products than theirs) is an other way of price fixing since you are a monopoly and just milk your customers that way.

The 6-core cpus were coming at roughlt the same time. Expect about a quarter later. The CPUs were indeed rushed. There were some stagnation during the 4-core era. The way they built their CPUs really benefited from smaller core counts. (Ring-bus and sp fourth). Pricing wise i havent paid much attention to them over that past years. 

 

Not defending intel, but i wouldnt call the 7700K "Old" tech. Then again im not the most educated man in the world

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Accused of != convicted of

 

And just because cost goes up (demand for product) while production cost stays the same does not inherently mean there is price fixing going on.


.

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Intel had 6c12t CPUs in 2011. They could have pushed 6 cores for enthusiasts long ago.


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3 hours ago, papajo said:

meaning A) stop being fanboys and realize that everybody of us consumers gets hurt if we are being apologetic towards our favorite company ("but but but smamsung.. good... shortage... bad miners!! the economy!!"  etc )

Whether or not someone is apologetic isn't going to change anything. People will still need to buy what they need and at the end of the day, people MIGHT give a shit for a whole five minutes before they stop caring.

3 hours ago, papajo said:

B) BITCHING ABOUT THE PRICE on retail stores even if you buy something that you are forced to buy (e.g your ram died and you need a new pare expensive or not because you have to have your computer running) BITCH about it if its an online order send a letter of complaint!! 

Oh yeah.....that'll certainly do something....

Image result for complaint box garbage

3 hours ago, papajo said:

And for the rest of you hold up in purchasing new retail GPUs/CPUs from Intel (and AMD if after that they start to make the same price fixing as intel but for the time being they are good although they did not release a 2800x while they already have the silicon ... but for now and due to the rest of them mobs I personally ignore that faul step from AMD) and RAM modules.

Try to buy used ones or refrain from buying new retail ones and sticking on your current gear as much as possible.

Hmmmm, let's see, I can refrain from buying something I want and not change a damn thing since the laws of game theory dictates that no one else is going to follow that, or I can buy what I want and enjoy what I want when I want it....

3 hours ago, papajo said:

C) Stop supporting/unsubscribe and BITCH in the comments of  ANY type of media groups (in youtube, twitch, websites, pod casts etc) that are apologetic towards this thievery and use the same policy words such as "markets, the economy, shortage, mining" when they excuse the 100%+ retail price increases that happened within a month and keep on going! They either dont know better and need to learn or are SELL OUT SHILLS of those companies!! either way let them know you dont like what they are doing!

Ah yes, that will solve all the problems. LTT bitching about RAM prices is going to make the multi-billion dollar industry change.

 

Oh, and just for the record, Nvidia/AMD aren't the ones who see the huge profits when mining (and GPU prices) spike.

 

On top of that, you fail to realize that it takes months for production of anything to ramp up anyway, and no manufacturer wants to be left with a ton of stock just sitting around if the demand falls. It's not as simple as 'just make more'.


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How much does it cost to build a ram factory?  $18Bn.  Yer that's a lot for an artificially constructed supply/demand problem.

 

Could they be price fixing?  yes,  

are they?   who knows. certainly not anyone here.

 

 


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4 hours ago, papajo said:

A few months ago I started a topic about the illegal and unethical price gauging of PC hardware manufacturers (Starting the talk in OP focusing on graphics card prices but later on explaining with links and facts about how those silicon chips and pcbs are made and finally talking about the fixes memory  prices as well in the tabs that follow) 

Especially about price fixing memory chips nobody believed me (although its a no brainier since they are made out of silicon and other COMMONLY ABUNDANT materials so there can not be any "shortage" of the materials that comprise something are available in very low prices and in huge quantities!!! )

 

 

And here it is https://www.techpowerup.com/243767/samsung-micron-and-hynix-accused-of-dram-price-fixing

 

Yet an other lawsuit (while already one had taken place in the past for the same reason and in which the big manufactures lost or in other-words found guilty and had to pay the price!)

The problem here though is that we(as consumers) dont get nothing out of this only the ones who participated in the law suit.

They just pay the legal fines and keep on exploiting the rest of the world since the profit from price-gauging there is bigger than the fines they need to pay to a small group of people in the US!

We need to STOP this.

And the only way to stop it (since its impossible to organize on a global scale) is to alter our personal behavior and attitude towards them

 

While I agree with your points and understand your frustration, I doubt any anger and "behavior or attitude" change on this will make any difference.

 

They are selling enough memory to enterprise and server markets at insane prices, they don't give a damn what the average consumer thinks about them or whether we buy it or not. We are not their primary market anyway.

 

Gamers Nexus did a good video with some insight from the industry on this. They always talk to industry people, and have some good insight.

 

 

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4 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

Hah buying used in a rural area of Norway..... 

 

Wait when did Intel price fix things? I thought their things were expencive like any other thing.

When did they stop price fixing. ;)

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3 hours ago, asand1 said:

Intel had 6c12t CPUs in 2011. They could have pushed 6 cores for enthusiasts long ago.

They would have charged an arm and a leg for that! Thank god for decent competition or intel would have killed us!


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Pretty sure people have been paying higher prices for higher quality products since the dawn of time. Not sure about you, but I wouldn't expect to buy a Lamborghini at a Ford Focus price. 

You have to realize there is R&D, quality assurance, manufacturing cost, maintenance of the machines that make the chips, paying for advertising/materials/worldwide shipping, warranty assurance for replacement components. I dont see you mentioning anything about the $140-some-odd in parts it cost to make an iPhone, yet the devices cost 6+ times as much at retail and people flock to buy them yearly. How about Samsung and LG TVs? Motherboards fall in the same boat im sure.

I'm not saying cashing in on the monopoly you hold in the market is fair, it's definitely not. But when a company is reliable and known for making quality products, you should expect to pay a premium. That and since these components are necessary for operation in PCs, you really don't have much choice other than buying used...which you take the risk of getting broken parts with no warranty or guarantee on.

They already have your money because you've already been buying their parts for years and years. There are people who don't mind paying. Your words won't hurt them, but good luck.

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3 minutes ago, dragonhart6505 said:

Pretty sure people have been paying higher prices for higher quality products since the dawn of time. Not sure about you, but I wouldn't expect to buy a Lamborghini at a Ford Focus price. 

You have to realize there is R&D, quality assurance, manufacturing cost, maintenance of the machines that make the chips, paying for advertising/materials/worldwide shipping, warranty assurance for replacement components. I dont see you mentioning anything about the $140-some-odd in parts it cost to make an iPhone, get the devices cost 6+ times as much at retail. How about Samsung and LG TVs? Motherboards fall in the same boat im sure.

I'm not saying cashing in on the monopoly you hold in the market is fair, it's definitely not. But when a company is reliable and known for making quality products, you should expect to pay a premium. That and since these components are necessary for operation in PCs, you really don't have much choice other than buying used...which you take the risk of getting broken parts with no warranty or guarantee on.

They already have your money because you've already been buying their parts for years and years. There are people who don't mind paying. Your words won't them, but good luck.

Thats why I don't support apple at all and I only buy from SUFFERING good manufacturers. I recently got a LG V20 dirt cheap because LG is suffering and they are a really good phone company however based on their current financial situation and the competitive market of smartphones they are FORCED to drop their phone prices faster than everybody else. These fanboys dont get.. slaves, every last one of them...


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9 minutes ago, SupremeGOAT said:

I only buy from SUFFERING good manufacturers. I recently got a LG V20 dirt cheap because LG is suffering

You only support suffering companies, like those that use monopolized Qualcomm SoCs and Samsung chips in their flagship device from 2016 that originally cost $800+ at launch...

Pick and choose your battles a little wiser, son

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1 minute ago, dragonhart6505 said:

You only support suffering companies, like those that use monopolized Qualcomm SoCs and Samsung chips in their flagship device from 2016 that originally cost $800+ at launch...

Pick and choose your battles a little wiser, son

who said anything about support... this isn't some help hotline... when i step out to buy something i look for quality at a good price its subjugate or get punked. I'd take a castle from a fallen tyrant if he wanted a loaf of bread for it. I could care less what happens to him after that or what he did before. I get what i want and its at a good price..to me..


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18 minutes ago, SupremeGOAT said:

who said anything about support... this isn't some help hotline... when i step out to buy something i look for quality at a good price its subjugate or get punked. I'd take a castle from a fallen tyrant if he wanted a loaf of bread for it. I could care less what happens to him after that or what he did before. I get what i want and its at a good price..to me..

I get it, you're a bargain hunter. Glad you got a great deal on it. Doesn't change the fact that at the time LG thought their phone was worth $800 but consumers decided Samsung and Apple had the better quality product. And you know what? They were right (aside from the Note incident.) People sold off their V20s and got Samsung and Apple products because the V20 suffered a lot of issues with the software and some hardware faults. The device didn't feel as premium as it was advertised. It fell behind the larger competitors with a reputation for getting the most out of the technology inside, and it wasn't for a lack of trying either. Samsung and Apple had the better devices for the price. It was one of, if not the, most expensive flagship phones available at the time...contributing to the fall of trust in LG mobile that had already been on the decline.

This pricing situation has been a problem all over the technology world for years. It's not a new development. I'm not arguing your point, I'm arguing your thought process to justifying your point

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8 minutes ago, dragonhart6505 said:

I get it, you're a bargain hunter. Glad you got a great deal on it. Doesn't change the fact that at the time LG thought their phone was worth $800 but consumers decided Samsung and Apple had the better quality product. And you know what? They were right (aside from the Note incident.) People sold off their V20s and got Samsung and Apple products because the V20 suffered a lot of issues with the software and some hardware faults. The device didn't feel as premium as it was advertised. It fell behind the larger competitors with a reputation for getting the most out of the technology inside, and it wasn't for a lack of trying either. Samsung and Apple had the better devices for the price. It was one of, if not the, most expensive flagship phones available at the time...contributing to the fall of trust in LG mobile that had already been on the decline.

This pricing situation has been a problem all over the technology world for years. It's not a new development. I'm not arguing your point, I'm arguing your thought process to justifying your point

oh so what you're arguing is that its not a quality product. ok. To the best of my knowledge i haven't heard of an LG phone bending in your pocket, blowing up or on the low releasing updates to slow down your phone... MAKE NO MISTAKE I AM NOT A FANBOY OF LG or any of these vampires. The cracked cameras and rereleasing the same phone with minor updates isn't beneath them, however i can't walk away from a nfc capable phone with a 5.7" 1440x2560 IPS LCD screen, a fast charging 3200mAh removable battery, expandable storage and a headphone jack for $150. Believe it or not some of those are features... I don't know maybe I could have gotten a better deal... What i do know is that at the end of the day we need sheep because wolves have to eat too...so in a way.. i guess you're right...

 

1 hour ago, dragonhart6505 said:

They already have your money because you've already been buying their parts for years and years. There are people who don't mind paying.

At the end of the day its up to you...


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34 minutes ago, SupremeGOAT said:

$150

NOW. You wouldn't have bought it at release would you?

 

34 minutes ago, SupremeGOAT said:

At the end of the day its up to you...

If it gets the job done, I'll take it. I don't buy expensive shit because I can't afford it. But if there's an option that gets the main functions right at a dirty cheap price I'm good with that. Always had budget phones, always been on MVNOs, always had 4-10yo computer parts. Most up to date electronics I own are an RX460 GPU and a Nintendo Switch, not quality products at reasonable prices while still falling short of the bigger competitors. Works for me

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I disagree about bitching when buying RAM,especially in store. Complaining to a minimum wage retail worker is not gonna do you or that person any good, so please don't do that.


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