2016 MacBook Pro Keyboards failing 2x more than older models

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, JDE said:

I've never gotten the point of the butterfly switch. It's louder than the original switch, while being more prone to failing and Windows ultrabook competitors having the usually switches. I'd scream "APPLE TAKE MY MONEY" if it had a larger battery and a normal keyboard.

Thinner profile, and it functions better with off-center key presses. I've typed on better, but the keyboards at work are far, far worse.

 

Not sure why the rivets were necessary though. In the component most likely to get dirt, debris, and liquid ingress, would it not make sense to have some means of cleaning the thing, if not outright replace? Screws would probably be better objectively, though there is the risk of a novice user (or poorly paid chinese worker) stripping out the aluminum.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Zodiark1593 said:

though there is the risk of a novice user (or poorly paid chinese worker) stripping out the aluminum.

Wow, that's some cheap aluminum.

[Dabombinable]

This is more evidence of Apple cutting corners to maximise profit. You have batteries in their current premium phones that wear out faster than in previous models/generations and now at least 1 of their expensive and supposedly premium laptops has issues with the longevity of the keyboard (or the lack thereof).

4 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Thinner profile, and it functions better with off-center key presses. I've typed on better, but the keyboards at work are far, far worse.

 

Not sure why the rivets were necessary though. In the component most likely to get dirt, debris, and liquid ingress, would it not make sense to have some means of cleaning the thing, if not outright replace? Screws would probably be better objectively, though there is the risk of a novice user (or poorly paid chinese worker) stripping out the aluminum.

Considering the replacement units repair shops use have screws and fit just fine.

 

Even the keyboard on my brothers heavily damaged Pentium/Atom laptop is screwed in, and that cost less than $400.

[DrMacintosh]

4 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Screws would probably be better objectively, though there is the risk of a novice user (or poorly paid chinese worker) stripping out the aluminum.

While true, given the profile of these machines we are probably talking about iPhone size screws. I’m not sure how secure those would be after years of long typing seasons. 

 

But from a repair/servicing perspectives the 2016/17 Pros are garbage for anything relating to the keyboard. 

[Zodiark1593]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Wow, that's some cheap aluminum.

Aluminium is not hard to strip out, whether the threadings, or the screw itself. Aluminum screws tend to strip on the heads if you so much as look at it funny, creating potential for lost time. However, anything harder can lead to stripping the threads on the more expensive chassis.

 

Rivets are probably the more "idiot-resistant" means of fastening things together, and may be preferable if there is a lot of fastening to do.

[kokakolia]

Just now, Zodiark1593 said:

Thinner profile, and it functions better with off-center key presses. I've typed on better, but the keyboards at work are far, far worse.

 

Not sure why the rivets were necessary though. In the component most likely to get dirt, debris, and liquid ingress, would it not make sense to have some means of cleaning the thing, if not outright replace? Screws would probably be better, though there is the risk of a novice user (or poorly paid chinese worker) stripping out the aluminum.

Because of planned obsolescence. Apple is trying their hardest to make their devices a nightmare to fix, so that customers would just give up on repairs and buy a new device. And it's hard to blame them in a sense because PC hardware from 4 years ago is still remarkably good for most people. I mean, the average user won't ever need more than 8gb of RAM and 500gb of storage. And a typical Core i5 gets the job done. Apple would just decline if people stopped buying laptops regularly. So they have to use dirty tricks to make their laptops suck after 2 years. Installing an awful keyboard that breaks easily and cannot be replaced accomplishes that. 

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

You have batteries in their current premium phones that wear out faster than in previous models/generations

Is there any real evidence of that though? A few Reddit posts from people probably using off brand cables/chargers don’t really count. 

 

 

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Aluminium is not hard to strip out, whether the threadings, or the screw itself.

Aluminum in general is very fragile. It scuffs, dings, and chips no matter what quality you are talking about. 

[Silentprototipe]

This is just sadning, But are we really surprised anymore? Crazy how this kind of behaviour is just "normal". Lets be honest are we really surprised that Apple is pulling this crap anymore?

[DrMacintosh]

4 minutes ago, kokakolia said:

Because of planned obsolescence. Apple is trying their hardest to make their devices a nightmare to fix, so that customers would just give up on repairs and buy a new device. And it's hard to blame them in a sense because PC hardware from 4 years ago is still remarkably good for most people. I mean, the average user won't ever need more than 8gb of RAM and 500gb of storage. And a typical Core i5 gets the job done. Apple would just decline if people stopped buying laptops regularly. So they have to use dirty tricks to make their laptops suck after 2 years. Installing an awful keyboard that breaks easily and cannot be replaced accomplishes that. 

The Mac is built with the corporate strategy of planned obsolescence when it makes up basically nothing of Apples profits compared to the profitable lines of smartphones that has ever existed which has a device that is going to be supported for 6 years

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Aluminium is not hard to strip out, whether the threadings, or the screw itself. Aluminum screws tend to strip on the heads if you so much as look at it funny, creating potential for lost time. However, anything harder can lead to stripping the threads on the more expensive chassis.

 

Rivets are probably the more "idiot-resistant" means of fastening things together, and may be preferable if there is a lot of fastening to do.

I put 60+ft-lb of torque on the threads of AR15 recievers. Those are made of 6061 or 7075 aluminum.

 

Same with various tools I use in construction. Higher quality aluminum does not strip out easy.

[Dabombinable]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

Is there any real evidence of that though? A few Reddit posts from people probably using off brand cables/chargers don’t really count. 

 

 

Oh ffs. Do I have to go through it again? I'm going to say my piece 1 more time and leave as the battery issues hit multiple media outlets. Older Apple iPhones, iPods and iPads don't shut down if under heavy load and the battery is worn. Apple themselves admitted that they released an update to throttle certain iPhones (which aren't even that old)  to combat the issue of sudden shut downs, which again didn't happen with their older products.
I'll also note that the batteries in the 3GS and iPod touch 3 take far longer to wear out than those if the 5 through 7 (not sure about the 8 and X yet).

[Zodiark1593]

1 minute ago, kokakolia said:

Because of planned obsolescence. Apple is trying their hardest to make their devices a nightmare to fix, so that customers would just give up on repairs and buy a new device. And it's hard to blame them in a sense because PC hardware from 4 years ago is still remarkably good for most people. I mean, the average user won't ever need more than 8gb of RAM and 500gb of storage. And a typical Core i5 gets the job done. Apple would just decline if people stopped buying laptops regularly. So they have to use dirty tricks to make their laptops suck after 2 years. Installing an awful keyboard that breaks easily and cannot be replaced accomplishes that. 

I'd be more inclined to believe that engineers are encouraged not to take repairs into consideration of their designs vs going out of their way to make things break or to take in cups of tears from third-party repair shops. 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Those are made of 6061 or 7075 aluminum.

6,000 Series aluminum is what the iPhone 6 was made of. 

 

7,000 Series is what Apples makes everything out of right now. 

[kokakolia]

2 minutes ago, Silentprototipe said:

This is just sadning, But are we really surprised anymore? Crazy how this kind of behaviour is just "normal". Lets be honest are we really surprised that Apple is pulling this crap anymore?

I'm afraid that it's becoming the norm. If this behavior continues then you can bet that old business laptops from Dell, Lenovo or HP from 2008 will be worth thousands of dollars because they're easily serviceable with cheap parts and should last forever. It's sad but true. 

[Drak3]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

6,000 Series aluminum is what the iPhone 6 was made of. 

 

7,000 Series is what Apples makes everything out of right now. 

That is evidently not the case, if Apple is concerned that people will strip out the screw holes when fixing their sub par keyboards.

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Older Apple iPhones, iPods and iPads don't shut down if under heavy load and the battery is worn.

Those devices weren’t capable of putting massive loads on the cells compared to modern components. 

 

2 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

I'll also note that the batteries in the 3GS and iPod touch 3 take far longer to wear out than those if the 5 through 7

Where is the data on that though. 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Drak3 said:

That is evidently not the case, if Apple is concerned that people will strip out the screw holes when fixing their sub par keyboards.

That was just a possibility @Zodiark1593 came up with. 

 

Doesn’t make it true. 

[Zodiark1593]

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I put 60+ft-lb of torque on the threads of AR15 recievers. Those are made of 6061 or 7075 aluminum.

 

Same with various tools I use in construction. Higher quality aluminum does not strip out easy.

Regrettably, there seems to be a severe lack of weapons-grade aluminum in the electronics world.

[Zodiark1593]

10 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That is evidently not the case, if Apple is concerned that people will strip out the screw holes when fixing their sub par keyboards.

Keep in mind, this bit was speculation on my part. Not fact.

 

Unless proven otherwise, I'd like not to have my speculation turn into an argument.

[Dabombinable]

4 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Those devices weren’t capable of putting massive loads on the cells compared to modern components.

And Apple should have used better batteries in conjunction with the newer hardware. Like any other sane manufacturer would.
 

 

4 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Where is the data on that though. 

Still got an iPod touch 3 that lasts through a couple of days with heavy use. That and my aunt has gone back to using her old 3GS which sees frequent use due to the battery in her iPhone 5 being pretty much useless. Then there is my cousin who recently had his iPad 1 replaced with a second hand iPad 2, both of which manage to last around 6-7 hours playing games.

[DrMacintosh]

4 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Still got an iPod touch 3 that lasts through a couple of days with heavy use.

 

4 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

That and my aunt has gone back to using her old 3GS which sees frequent use due to the battery in her iPhone 5 being pretty much useless.

Both anecdotal and completely expected. 

 

“Heavy use” for those devices means something very different from “Heavy use” on modern devices. 

 

Those products have very low power components, and their operating systems are insanely basic by today’s standards. 

 

I think the 3GS could only go up to iOS 6 with significantly limited features. And the iPod Touch 3rd gen could only get iOS 5. Making those devices very power efficient in nature. 

 

Given that the iPod Touch is a WiFi-only device, it makes sense that even it would last under “Heavy use” and given that the 3GS was so large and so ran an extremely low power CPU I am also not surprised. 

 

Battery life is not as cut and dry as you think it is. You can’t just say batteries from X years ago were of higher quality because the devices that ran with them appear to be doing better. 

 

That is literally comparing Apples to Oranges. The only way to prove or disprove that statement is to get new cells from years ago and new cells from now and test their endurance over time with a control device. 

[Belgarathian]

I'm one of the weirdos that likes the new switch design and the keyboard. 

 

However I've noticed that they can get crap behind the key caps and it stops the cap depressing completely which can mean that the keystroke is missed. Blowing it out with compressed air seems to solve the issue. 

[D13H4RD]

Meanwhile, my 8 year old MBP’s keyboard works perfectly still.

 

I can’t for the life of me understand why this design was even approved. I get it’s for a thinner laptop but it just looks flawed from the get-go. And I understand that some people like them, but I personally don’t. I’ve used the slim MacBook and the MBP and while the latter is better, and I can type full-speed easily on both, I didn’t like how I was basically typing on a board. I like some key-travel, hence why I tend to prefer the extended travel of MX Blues, but I digress. The feedback felt terrible to me, which is ironic given that my sister’s iPhone 8 Plus has had the best haptic I’ve felt on a device yet.

 

I feel that we’re in an era where consumer electronics become harder and more expensive to repair, and I can’t help but feel that Apple is one of the ones leading the charge.

[DrMacintosh]

16 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

I get it’s for a thinner laptop but it just looks flawed from the get-go.

The switch itself has nothing inherently wrong with it

 

It's just that in practice dust and particulates can get under the "butterfly" arms of the switch or the dome. Getting under the dome is very hard and most issues come from junk getting under an arm. 

 

My x key sometimes double taps so there is something under there.

Spoiler

X key test

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

xx

xx

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

x

xx