Man gets 15 months in prison for selling "worthless" Windows restore disks

[Ryz]

https://www.polygon.com/windows/2018/4/25/17280178/eric-lundgren-windows-restore-disks-microsoft-prison

 

Quote

In his 2017 trial in federal district court, Eric Lundgren, 33, was found to have infringed Microsoft’s intellectual property by $700,000 for ordering and importing the restore disks, which a witness told the court were nearly worthless. Lundgren, an activist whose cause is “e-waste,” or throwing out otherwise usable technology, saw the disks as a way to keep consumers from tossing old computers when they believed them to be broken.

Such disks may only be used on computers that already have a license for the Windows operating system. Lundgren observed that many users, when confronted with a system failure, would simply opt to buy a new one, rather than hunt up a disk or go through the laborious process of a system restore.

Lundgren had 28,000 of these disks made and shipped to Florida, where he and a broker planned to sell them to computer repair shops for about 25 cents each. This way, the shops wouldn’t have to make restore disks themselves.

Quote

Microsoft’s lawyer argued to the court that the sales of the disks “displaced Microsoft’s potential sales of genuine operating systems,” while ignoring the fact these disks were inoperable without an existing license paid for or granted by the company. An expert witness testified there was “zero or near zero” monetary value in any of the disks; they were useful mainly as a convenience to users or maintenance technicians.

Despite that, Senior United States District Judge Daniel T.K. Hurley of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida, appointed by the Clinton administration in 1994, said these disks had a value of $700,000. That qualified Lundgren for 15 months in the joint and a $50,000 fine, which Hurley handed to himafter saying some nice things in his sentencing.

 

[Kherm]

g o o d

 

sorry, this was /s, should've put that. Carry on

Edited April 25, 2018 by Kherm

[Bcat00]

I'm kinda confused about this, can anyone explain a bit more in detail how this even made it to court?

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Kherm said:

g o o d

How the fuck is this a good thing? These discs are worthless if you don't have an existing, usable license, and shops are free to create as many of their own if needed (and if they know how to).

[RoyalGamer1]

Just now, Drak3 said:

How the fuck is this a good thing? These discs are worthless if you don't have an existing, usable license, and shops are free to create as many of their own if needed (and if they know how to).

maybe hes saying its good he got caught. 

[RoyalGamer1]

1 minute ago, Bcat00 said:

I'm kinda confused about this, can anyone explain a bit more in detail how this even made it to court?

because of the $700,000. if it was a few hundred then they wouldn't care 

[ravenshrike]

1 minute ago, Bcat00 said:

I'm kinda confused about this, can anyone explain a bit more in detail how this even made it to court?

Man makes restore disks, then sells them. Even if he sold them at cost, he still is turning it into a fiduciary breach of copyright.

[Bcat00]

Just now, ravenshrike said:

Man makes restore disks, then sells them. Even if he sold them at cost, he still is turning it into a fiduciary breach of copyright.

Okay, that makes more sense to me. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Bcat00 said:

I'm kinda confused about this, can anyone explain a bit more in detail how this even made it to court?

People come in all flavors of stupid, and didn't/don't understand what's happening.

 

1 minute ago, RoyalGamer1 said:

maybe hes saying its good he got caught. 

Again, how the fuck is that that a good thing? Nothing was pirated, the discs can't be used for piracy, it cuts down on ewaste, and it provides OS restoration material to shops for the price of bank CDs.

[Crunchy Dragon]

9 minutes ago, Ryz said:

 

Needs some personal input.

[RoyalGamer1]

5 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

People come in all flavors of stupid, and didn't/don't understand what's happening.

 

Again, how the fuck is that that a good thing? Nothing was pirated, the discs can't be used for piracy, it cuts down on ewaste, and it provides OS restoration material to shops for the price of bank CDs.

because he infringed Microsoft’s intellectual property. he didn't make them so he has no right to re sell them. just like how little candy bars in big bags say not for individual resale on them. its just illegal to do it. They can so they did. they probably like the idea of selling them to stores for money and doest want him to so they can. or they just dont want him getting money off something he didn't personally make. in the end who cares. when you try to do get rich fast schemes this is always a possible outcome. 

[AresKrieger]

They have at most a value of 7,000 dollars in total however this is a bunch of nonsense as these computers already had legit installs of the OS, I am really hoping MS is broken apart as they are cancer at this point. And I have a sneaky suspicion this is windows 10 related nonsense, ie we don't want any OS installed again......except windows 10, mostly because of this line.

Quote

“displaced Microsoft’s potential sales of genuine operating systems,” 

If this is a winnable case against MS I hope this is escalated, Copyright law and software related interpretations are a bunch of nonsense that need to be hoed out.

[vanished]

Please add your own input on this

---

This makes me wonder why all those "PC repair sticks" are allowed to exist...

Spoiler

idk if this is a particularly great video but I'm sure it covers the main points and shows what I'm referring to

 

 

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, RoyalGamer1 said:

when you try to do get rich fast schemes this is always a possible outcome. 

Didn't know that selling a product at a price that barely pays for production and shipping was a GRQ scheme.

 

4 minutes ago, RoyalGamer1 said:

 

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

 

This makes me wonder why all those "PC repair sticks" are allowed to exist...

  Reveal hidden contents

idk if this is a particularly great video but I'm sure it covers the main points and shows what I'm referring to

 

 

Legitimate companies that have money to fight this.

Not a man looking to reduce ewaste.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Legitimate companies that have money to fight this.

Not a man looking to reduce ewaste.

>"Legitimate companies"

I'm pretty sure these fall under "worthless" as well, if not misleading advertising

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

>"Legitimate companies"

I'm pretty sure these fall under "worthless" as well, if not misleading advertising

They are legitimate companies.

The tools they provide are just automated or dumbed down versions of built in tools, but they're real and do the gust of what they're supposed to.

[bcredeur97]

wait so let me get this straight:

The guy was selling restore disks to help people fix their broken PC's and Microsoft went after him because it prevented people from otherwise buying new copies of windows or PC's that contained a new copy?

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

wait so let me get this straight:

The guy was selling restore disks to help people fix their broken PC's and Microsoft went after him because it prevented people from otherwise buying new copies of windows or PC's that contained a new copy?

Precisely.

[bcredeur97]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Precisely.

then there is nothing "good" about this as the first comment by @Kherm suggests. He's an innocent man in my book... especially since it says the disks require an activated copy of windows anyway.

They are obviously not "worthless". This is abuse of policy on Microsoft's part IMO

[SolarNova]

Wow ..thats about as stupid as the guy in the UK you got thrown in court and ordered to pay a fine for uploading a dog video on youtube ...becouse it was offensive .....so all shock humor is now an offence....riiiiight.

 

This is society now, get used to it. Or fight back ..or leave.

 

Always makes me laugh though, these courts ..these judges ..forget that Laws are not the be all end all. "laws" were created to help serve "justic" by settings "guide lines".

"Justice" isnt served by following laws blindly and saying well you broke these law so our hands are tied, your in the wrong.

 

This isnt "Justice" .

 

EDIT: This kinda BS is also 'a' reason why people Pirate software. Why the Fk would they want to help these tyeps of companies.

[mr moose]

22 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

They are legitimate companies.

The tools they provide are just automated or dumbed down versions of built in tools, but they're real and do the gust of what they're supposed to.

 

19 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

wait so let me get this straight:

The guy was selling restore disks to help people fix their broken PC's and Microsoft went after him because it prevented people from otherwise buying new copies of windows or PC's that contained a new copy?

 

The issue is not the usefulness or the value of the product to manufacturer. nor is it even if that person makes a profit or not (I would say he did make a profit because you don't pay 25C a cd when you get that many pressed).  It comes down to is he producing a product that utilizes another companies IP without permission? and are is he selling said product?  In this case the answer is yes, without doubt.  The fact a Computer shop can do it legitimately for the cost of a CD with MS software is irrelevant.

[ATFink]

49 minutes ago, RoyalGamer1 said:

because he infringed Microsoft’s intellectual property. They can so they did. they probably like the idea of selling them to stores for money and doest want him to so they can. or they just dont want him getting money off something he didn't personally make. in the end who cares. when you try to do get rich fast schemes this is always an outcome. 

This wasn't a "get rich fast scheme." You're fooling yourself if you think that's the case.

 

20,000 units at $0.25 per unit is only $5,000 revenue. Definitely not a small sum, but absolutely nowhere near a "get rich quick" scheme. That figure I just stated doesn't even discount the price of the 20,000 blank CDs that were used or the CD distribution. The profit margin may not have even been $1,000. If he really was trying to get rich he could have very easily sold those same disks for $10. $10 extra to fix a computer someone finds important is literally nothing. He could have easily made $200,000+ from this "scheme" if he wanted to (and didn't get caught), but the guy didn't sell the disks for profit. He sold them for $0.25 a pop.

 

He was likely an honest man trying to save computers from going to e-waste or simply improving someone's day by giving them an option not to drop a couple hundred dollars on a new computer (assuming the $0.25 restore disk is a true figure). As long there is no way the licenses were pirated (which they weren't... the computer needed to have legitimate copy of windows prior to the restore) there should be no problem here. It requires barely any effort to figure that out.

Quote

Microsoft’s lawyer argued to the court that the sales of the disks “displaced Microsoft’s potential sales of genuine operating systems,” while ignoring the fact these disks were inoperable without an existing license paid for or granted by the company.

Seriously, the guy is getting fined for "displacing potential sales." That's like saying changing your car's oil potentially harms dealership revenue since you won't blow up your car's engine every 20,000 miles and "displace potential sales" or cars on a dealership's lot, or that buying an aluminum watter bottle "displaces potential sales" of disposable nestle water bottles. Hell, after having a bad experience with Windows it is entirely possible that many of the "potential sales" would have actually been Apple's revenue, not Microsoft's.

 

Assuming both underlined sections in the quote above are correct this is utter bullshit and a pathetic power play buy Microsoft.

 

To me it sounds like Microsoft is trying to pressure people into to buying a new operating system and squash anyone that interferes with Microsoft's "get rich quick" scheme. This is a classic case of a corporation getting too powerful and using its power skew the free market in to a market that's no longer free.  

 

I suppose there could be something I'm missing, but you sound like the fool right now. Please prove me wrong.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, ATFink said:

Seriously, the guy is getting fined for "displacing potential sales."

While using unlicensed IP to do so.

 

3 minutes ago, ATFink said:

That's like saying changing your car's oil potentially harms dealership revenue since you won't blow up your car's engine every 20,000 miles and "displace potential sales" or cars on a dealership's lot, or that buying an aluminum watter bottle "displaces potential sales" of disposable nestle water bottles. Hell, after having a bad experience with Windows it is entirely possible that many of the "potential sales" would have actually been Apple's revenue, not Microsoft's.

Only if the oil is patented and you are making a direct copy of that patented oil and selling it to mechanics without license from the manufacturer.  Also Potential sales are reasonable assumed to be like for like in these cases.  You can argue it was a pointless activity but the law is black and white on that.  You just can't legally use IP without a license and you certainly can't sell products that use it without a license.

 

 

[Drak3]

13 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It comes down to is he producing a product that utilizes another companies IP without permission? and are is he selling said product?  In this case the answer is yes, without doubt.  The fact a Computer shop can do it legitimately for the cost of a CD with MS software is irrelevant.

The resale of restoration media is allowed by Microsoft. At least, until you can't fight it in court, apparently. Microsoft allows it because it's a built in tool that can't be used for piracy without some extreme effort, and they themselves sell a staggering zero variants of restoration media. There's not really a downside for Microsoft to allow the resale of restoration media.