Belgian gambling commission goes to war on lootboxes, prison sentences possible

[Selah]

49 minutes ago, Some Random Member said:

Well the only people who buy lootcrates are 1. extremely rich people, or more alarmingly 2. little kids with their moms credit cards. So the problem is that little kids without the full understandement of money buy tons of those lootcrates, but then again, then it is the parents fault...

Don't forget those with mental disorders as well. I have a developmental disability and talking among friends I seem to feel much more pressure to buy ow crates and rely on my partner telling me when it's fiscally responsible to spend some of my money on games. I'm not even necessarily poor. Its just that if I don't make a conscious effort to analyze my behaviour I can end up spending hundreds on crates to get a single skin. 

[DarkBlade2117]

Just now, samcool55 said:

The EU will likely follow for 2 reasons

1) The netherlands already came to a similar conclusion that lootboxes are bad

2) The brussels effect might happen. It has happend before with other things. Yes Belgium is small but that doesn't mean it can't have a big effect.

No, I don't do TL:DR. Message may seem long on the forum or a phone but it would take all of 5 minutes to read.  
Even if EU follow, that just makes it really easy to sell different versions to the EU that comply. They can still make profit from selling the game in EU and still make the extra profit in the USA and other countries. 
It's going to take another big outrage for the U.S. to look into it.

[Eduard the weeb]

who would you lock up anyway ?

[Drak3]

16 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Good luck teaching kids that gambling is bad,

Then their neglectful parents are to blame.

 

17 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Also, gambling is regulated and you can put yourself on a sort of blacklist so you can no longer enter a casino, the same safety net doesn't exist for lootboxes.

It shouldn't need to. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If they ruin their lives on video games, it's their problem, their burden to bare.

[laminutederire]

22 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

The investigation probably happened shortly after EA (IIRC temporarily, haven't followed the BF2 saga itself) stripped out the lootboxes, so the game was not in violation when they looked at it. 

 

 

Yeah sure but it's funny because it's the sole reason lootboxes are investigated

 

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Then their neglectful parents are to blame.

Sure sure, but in the meantime the kids would be effed up anyway.  Better to prevent addiction than to cure it or find someone to blame for it.  Sometimes regulation is necessary. 

[samcool55]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Then their neglectful parents are to blame.

 

It shouldn't need to. People need to take responsibility for their own actions. If they ruin their lives on video games, it's their problem, their burden to bare.

Than good luck teaching parents they are doing a crappy job, some parents just don't care. I'm sure you have seen parents out there being awful at parenting but nobody taking the time and/or effort to talk to them telling them that they are doing it wrong. And if someone would do that there's a chance they get cursed into oblivion and should mind their own business. Some people just don't want to listen and think they know better.

 

Minorities f*cking up and negatively effecting a majority that did nothing wrong is very common today.

 

The thing about the gambling blacklist is that it IS needed, it is a thing and it helps. Btw you can let yourself add to that blacklist if you know from yourself that you might get addicted if they do let you in a casino. If i want to i can put myself on that list right now without being asked a single question. Just a request and done.

A judge can also put you on the list if it's relevant for you if you are for example sued because you can't pay your debt because you gambled away all your money.

 

It's up to the government to take care of its people, not the people itself because that would just end in disaster, some people can't take care of themselves and for those people the gov needs to step in and help.

[Bigbootyjudy]

1 hour ago, Captain Chaos said:

The Belgian Gaming Commission looked at Star Wars Battlefront 2, FIFA 18, Overwatch and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive and found only Star Wars was not in violation of the country's gambling legislation - and that's only because EA stripped out the game's loot boxes after its launch debacle.

Are you kidding?  Overwatch being looked at for their loot boxes? I think their loot box system is fair in the way they implemented it. You get a loot box when you level up and you can get a box every three arcade wins. I also think the items in the boxes are fair as they don't give an advantage to the player by giving them a special weapon or ability. In my opinion, this is not gambling as you yes, you do gain an item, but that item does not take away or give to the game (except for the satisfaction of having a cool cosmetic). 

 

It may just be the act of opening a loot box that is seen as gambling and how it does give you the satisfaction of getting something.

[samcool55]

15 minutes ago, DarkBlade2117 said:

No, I don't do TL:DR. Message may seem long on the forum or a phone but it would take all of 5 minutes to read.  
Even if EU follow, that just makes it really easy to sell different versions to the EU that comply. They can still make profit from selling the game in EU and still make the extra profit in the USA and other countries. 
It's going to take another big outrage for the U.S. to look into it.

That's good enough for me tho! I really wouldn't mind if the EU got a different version.

Region locks have been a thing for decades on consoles anyway so i dunno...

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

2 minutes ago, Bigbootyjudy said:

Are you kidding?  Overwatch being looked at for their loot boxes? I think their loot box system is fair in the way they implemented it.

 

 

https://us.shop.battle.net/en-us/product/overwatch-loot-box

 

You can buy lootboxes from the Blizzard site and even from the in-game store.  How is that not gambling? 

[samcool55]

5 minutes ago, Bigbootyjudy said:

Are you kidding?  Overwatch being looked at for their loot boxes? I think their loot box system is fair in the way they implemented it. You get a loot box when you level up and you can get a box every three arcade wins. I also think the items in the boxes are fair as they don't give an advantage to the player by giving them a special weapon or ability. In my opinion, this is not gambling as you yes, you do gain an item, but that item does not take away or give to the game (except for the satisfaction of having a cool cosmetic). 

 

It may just be the act of opening a loot box that is seen as gambling and how it does give you the satisfaction of getting something.

The argument from Belgium atm is (rough translation and it's what i remember from the interview so it might not be 100% correct)

 

You can buy boxes with real money, doesn't matter you can also get them in different ways. If real money is a way to get the lootboxes, it's a problem.

You don't know what you will get before opening the box (same thing with slot machines, you need to pull to know what you'll get).

If there's a specific thing you want (a rare outfit) it's very easy to get dragged into the lootbox system and trying eveything you can to get that rare outfit and at that point it doesn't matter if it's overwatch or any other game, the only thing that matters is that outfit you want and the game could become irrelevant for the person. (interview ends here)

 

Gambling has exactly the same trap, if you are addicted you are hunting for the big bucks and you'll do whatever it takes to play another game trying to get it. It doesn't matter what game it is at that point, the only thing that matters is money.

 

For games like overwatch it's basically the same except the goal is an outfit instead of money.

 

It's not exactly the satisfaction of getting something that's the problem but the lack of it. If you REALLY want something you would do everything it takes to finally get whatever you want and satisfying the desire of finally having that one outfit you really like.

[Drak3]

21 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Sure sure, but in the meantime the kids would be effed up anyway.  Better to prevent addiction than to cure it or find someone to blame for it.  Sometimes regulation is necessary. 

Better to fix the root of the problem, not ignore it and go after what is a non issue.

 

21 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

It's up to the government to take care of its people, not the people itself because that would just end in disaster, some people can't take care of themselves and for those people the gov needs to step in and help

It's not the government's responcibility to protect people from themselves, especially at the costs of others.

 

And those people that can't take care of themselves, should either learn quick, or be abandoned so that we can move on.

24 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

 

[samcool55]

6 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

 

Why you care that i buy 50 lootboxes every Overwatch event ? stop trying to tell me what i can and cannot do.

You are a very good example why lootboxes are an issue...

50 is a lot and what they want to avoid is (in your case) when a new event happens, you suddenly decide to buy 100, or 150 or even more, i mean you already buy 50 anyway so a bit more won't hurt right? That's the trap they don't want people to fall into and because it's very easy to spend all your money on them.

 

The fact you don't want people to tell you what you can and cannot do is another indication it's already going the wrong way. People with gambling addictions usually don't want to hear from other people that they have a problem and don't see any issues (or just don't want to see it). There's a reason why the first step to recovery is understanding that you do have a problem and accept you have one. Only then a person can be helped because if they don't it's hopeless.

 

If you limit yourself to 50 boxes and you stick to that limit, it's fine, but once you cross that limit you put up for yourself, you have an issue, even if it's just 1 more. A limit is a limit.

[samcool55]

16 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Better to fix the root of the problem, not ignore it and go after what is a non issue.

 

It's not the government's responcibility to protect people from themselves, especially at the costs of others.

 

And those people that can't take care of themselves, should either learn quick, or be abandoned so that we can move on.

So what do you suggest? Creating an AI that analyses every person in the world, checking if they are a good parent or not and lock the bad ones up? Or just straight up killing them and the baby because the baby will probably also be ruined because it got raised by bad parents?

 

Also, wtf do you mean by "abandoning" people? Send them to an island and let them die there or just shoot them and dump them in the sea?

Or put them in an arena and let them get attacked by lions so it can be entertaining for people that come and watch. You can even earn money by selling tickets if you want to

 

I really want to know how you would solve it...

[samcool55]

12 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

 

Where i spend my money is non of your business, you are whats wrong with this world, you like that guy that does't like candy i get it but then you are a extremist that wants to take away candy from everyone starting a war in the process, not buying candy yourself is't enough you need to ban it for everyone.

It's indeed none of my business what you buy, but you shared what you buy with your money with the world, not me. I didn't even ask for it, you just put it out there and you need to be aware that people can respond to everything you put on the internet... If you don't like people reacting to what you buy, don't tell them about it in the first place...

 

The thing is the candy itself isn't bad, it's the way you can get the candy that's the issue. If you buy candy now in real life, you go in, you grab what you want, pay a fixed amount for what you took and leave. However if it would work the same way lootboxes work you would go in, buy 50 bags of candy and hope you get what you want. I'm not surprised people are against it. I mean if you want a specific piece of candy you should be able to just buy it and not buy a bunch of bags where the majority of likely won't contain the candy you want.

 

Also starting a war is a bit extreme, if you create a law you need to define the fine if that law is broken. If it's unclear what the fine should be you have the whole justice system to take care of that.

[Sakkura]

58 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

It's not the government's responcibility to protect people from themselves, especially at the costs of others.

Yes it absolutely is. Hence things like seatbelts.

[TOMPPIX]

1 hour ago, Arokhantos said:

 

Why you care that i buy 50 lootboxes every Overwatch event ? stop trying to tell me what i can and cannot do.

you know all those cosmetic items could be free or a paid DLC and not some randomized bullshit.

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Yes it absolutely is. Hence things like seatbelts.

No, it's not.

Nor are seatbelts, and many similar safeties, something we can thank governments for. Any regulation concerning those are also govt. overstepping its boundries.

[samcool55]

6 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

 

In gambling you make profit

-snip-

Seriously? You really believe you earn money from that? The only person that makes a profit is the house.

There are exceptions yes but that's required to keep the idea alive you'll be rich too if you try enough times...

 

I don't know what you are lookig for but for me it looks like you are searching for comfort. Something in you is hopelessly searching for confirmation buying all those lootboxes was a good idea but the truth is, it isn't. You can either keep fighting and looking for that confirmation but the longer you fight the more you lose Or you accept your loss and move on. But looking at your recent posts you probably won't stop fighting soon.

[Sakkura]

24 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, it's not.

Nor are seatbelts, and many similar safeties, something we can thank governments for. Any regulation concerning those are also govt. overstepping its boundries.

Yeah having to wear a seatbelt is such a tragedy.

 

[General Winter]

Just now, Sakkura said:

Yeah having to wear a seatbelt is such a tragedy.

 

i wish we could put these people on an island and see how long they last before they self destrcut

 

 

but on the flip side, no regulations mean no speed limits, no street lights, no restrictions of drugs to minors, etc.

[Bananasplit_00]

id guess lootboxes will just be disabled for belgium and nowhere else tbh

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Sakkura said:

Yeah having to wear a seatbelt is such a tragedy.

 

Having others needlessly overstep their fucking boundries to dictate to me what is my absolute best interest, and violate my freedom of choice in my personal matters is a tragedy.

[Sakkura]

16 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Having others needlessly overstep their fucking boundries to dictate to me what is my absolute best interest, and violate my freedom of choice in my personal matters is a tragedy.

Seatbelts are not needless, and this supposed "violation" is just ridiculous.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Seatbelts are not needless

Being told I need one is both unneeded and unwanted.

 

3 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

and this supposed "violation" is just ridiculous.

No, being so stupid that you refuse to take responsibility for your actions that effect only you is ridiculous.