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GeForce Partner Program may be to blame for lack of Kaby Lake-G products

Nowak
4 hours ago, NowakVulpix said:

HP and Dell are the only notable OEMs manufacturing products based around Kaby Lake-G. MSI, Lenovo, Asus, Gigabyte, et al. are silent about the processors existing. Again, you'd think that OEMs would be all over two of the biggest rivals in the industry partnering up. It's a shame because Kaby Lake-G, with its Vega M graphics, delivers performance almost as fast as the GTX 1050 and GTX 1060 Max-Q without requiring as big of a footprint in the laptop and outputting less heat. CPU performance, meanwhile, is directly comparable to the i7-7700HQ and i7-7820HK.

Well, that explains why HP and Dell went f-you to Nvidia a few weeks ago!

I don't really like HP or Dell but i'm happy they are fighting GPP. 


I know Nvidia is big but fighting against both AMD AND Intel? Wtf are they thinking?

If AMD and Intel decides to replace PCI-E by something else that only accepts AMD graphics cards, Nvidia is screwed...

 

If you want my attention, quote meh! D: or just stick an @samcool55 in your post :3

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9 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Do you have evidence pointing to Supply issues?

Just the current issues with Vega and HBM2 supply.

 

Quote

We don't know the cost but we can guess it's probably a bit more expensive than the regular Intel CPUs.

So far laptops with it are more expensive than similarly performing CL+dGPU laptops.  It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume it costs more. 

Quote

The Performance of the chip is actually quite nice so I don't know how this could be an issue.

It is nice, but as many reviews have already said it isn't leaps and bounds in front of what is already in the market at sometimes a cheaper price.

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The only way this isn't marketable is under GPP.

It's a new product, no one knows about it. the only marketable feature is the Intel sticker.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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8 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Just the current issues with Vega and HBM2 supply.

 

So far laptops with it are more expensive than similarly performing CL+dGPU laptops.  It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume it costs more. 

It is nice, but as many reviews have already said it isn't leaps and bounds in front of what is already in the market at sometimes a cheaper price.

It's a new product, no one knows about it. the only marketable feature is the Intel sticker.

If a laptop price was only due to component prices, MacBooks would be way cheaper. So would be surface laptops and so on.

The price difference may just be only design and marketing related. You can't make better than it in a smaller form factor hence were going to make you pay more. Something along those lines.

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1 minute ago, laminutederire said:

If a laptop price was only due to component prices, MacBooks would be way cheaper. So would be surface laptops and so on.

The price difference may just be only design and marketing related. You can't make better than it in a smaller form factor hence were going to make you pay more. Something along those lines.

 

I never said it was only due to component prices.  I am just offering realistic possibilities as to why we may not be seeing many G laptops. 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Nah. The reason there's no real products is this one:

 

maxresdefault.jpg.a636b5a4dbf70624e2d4aacb65a1579f.jpg

 

the consumer really is stupid. You can't imagine how much. You offer a laptop worth 1000$ with an intel i7 and nvidia sticker, they'll pick that. Even if inside it has a crappy dual core i7 from 5 years ago and the lowest possible mGPU from nvidia.

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54 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I never said it was only due to component prices.  I am just offering realistic possibilities as to why we may not be seeing many G laptops. 

 

 

To me it would take something like GPP to prevent it. That being said, Intel's own product using it is barely out, so it should take some time for us to know if it indeed is not used anywhere.

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On 4/25/2018 at 1:19 AM, porina said:

Are we going to blame GPP for everything that doesn't happen now? Do we know how much KL-G costs compared to similar equivalent of Intel+nv GPU? I did fear when I saw the NUCs it was too expensive for the performance level, the only advantage it really gave was space saving for smaller form factors.

Hey we're near the end of April and it's fucking chilly up in this bitch.

 

What the fuck is up with that Nvidia? I bet GPP is behind this fucking cold!

 

On 4/25/2018 at 5:13 AM, AluminiumTech said:

Actually yes. I'm very sure. Before the GPP, OEMs were not as close with Nvidia and had no qualms about using Intel's own solutions to graphics issues.

 

Like with the Iris Pro Graphics MSI laptop. And MSI, Gigabyte, Aorus, what do they all have in common? They all have gaming brands which are signed on with the GPP meaning they can't be seen making laptops with AMD Graphics in their gaming products.

 

Asus could probably try to make it work in non gaming branded laptop but I don't think they'd want to risk it.

 

On 4/25/2018 at 5:19 AM, AluminiumTech said:

Do you have evidence pointing to Supply issues?

We don't know the cost but we can guess it's probably a bit more expensive than the regular Intel CPUs.

The Performance of the chip is actually quite nice so I don't know how this could be an issue.

The only way this isn't marketable is under GPP.

The story tells itself folks: Consecutive posts. Lack of self awareness is worrisome.

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I just had another look at the Hades Canyon NUC, starting at $999 without some essential parts, and a lot more if you want it to do something. You might say some of that is Intel or size premium, but let's face it, it is essentially a laptop without a battery, screen or keyboard. KL-G suits perhaps a relatively thin and light gaming laptop, but budget gamers would just get some 15.6" model which is not space constrained for a lot less. This never was going to be a mainstream part, but will find certain premium niches.

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Lack of supply, Product cost/margin, performance and marketability are all pretty good reasons to not invest in it.  

NO, don't make stuff up! It is GPP, and only that!

 

\rant

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1 hour ago, samcool55 said:

Well, that explains why HP and Dell went f-you to Nvidia a few weeks ago!

I don't really like HP or Dell but i'm happy they are fighting GPP. 


I know Nvidia is big but fighting against both AMD AND Intel? Wtf are they thinking?

If AMD and Intel decides to replace PCI-E by something else that only accepts AMD graphics cards, Nvidia is screwed...

 

There is no way they would actually do anything like that. There are so many things other than gpus that use pcie and they would basically make any new cpu and motherboard incompatible with all those products. Not to mention it would require the redesign of their cpus and motherboards most likely. 

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lol my house and health insurance went up thx gpp

 

but seriously how are these related except for making new brands and models with marketing? and they do this shit all the time as is lol

 

but arent most laptops designed by ODMs first?

 

  • Quanta sells to (among others) HP, Lenovo, Apple, Acer, Toshiba, Dell, Sony, Fujitsu and NEC
  • Compal sells to (among others) Acer, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo and HP/Compaq
  • Wistron (former manufacturing & design division of Acer) sells to Dell, Acer, Lenovo and HP
  • Inventec sells to Toshiba, HP, Dell and Lenovo
  • Pegatron sells to Asus, Toshiba, Apple, Dell and Acer
  • Foxconn sells to Asus, Dell, HP and Apple
  • Flextronics (former Arima Computer Corporation notebook division) sells to HP
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1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

There is no way they would actually do anything like that. There are so many things other than gpus that use pcie and they would basically make any new cpu and motherboard incompatible with all those products. Not to mention it would require the redesign of their cpus and motherboards most likely. 

Never underestimate ego battles. It always makes people do ridiculous things. 

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7 hours ago, asus killer said:

especially in laptops were people have less knowledge than with desktops, people prefer a laptop with a nvidia sticker. Everybody knows this. I may be wrong but that is the real reason. 

Laptop market is fickle, Q to Q swings in the laptop market for graphics can be as high as 20% ;)

 

But seriously, GPP is doing this?  Come on, Intel's road map stated Kaby Lake G parts for Mid 2018, its mid 2018 right now and we see a few came out, there are more to come.

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#BetterRed 

 

Not buying or recommending Nvidia until GPP is gone. 

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4 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

#BetterRed 

 

Not buying or recommending Nvidia until GPP is gone. 

do you think foxconn should have a say in naming apple products

lol

you think apple should pay for advertising of competitor products because of aibs are selling competing under same sub brands?

 

all kidding aside just messing around

this wont change my stance

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3 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

There is no way they would actually do anything like that. There are so many things other than gpus that use pcie and they would basically make any new cpu and motherboard incompatible with all those products. Not to mention it would require the redesign of their cpus and motherboards most likely. 

Not really tho, just physically changing the connector, licensing it and not giving one to Nvidia is enough.

The protocol doesn't need to change. I mean thunderbolt is a nice exameple of that...

 

And a lot of thing use PCI-E that's true, but not many things are using 16 lanes at once.

I mean we were close to something similar back when Intel decided to no longer allow third parties to develop their own chipsets.

If you want my attention, quote meh! D: or just stick an @samcool55 in your post :3

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6 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Yes but Intel's brand recognition is strong. There is no reason outside of the GPP that OEMs would choose to stay away from it.

Im talking about intel in the context of integrated graphics. Is pure garbage

.

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1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

#BetterRed 

 

Not buying or recommending Nvidia until GPP is gone. 

Tell that to 70%+ of the gaming market ;)

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5 hours ago, The Viking said:

.

You break my i7 7500U feelings... I do agree though it is common go look for used gaming laptops and see stupid high prices for shitty specs.

 

Specially because of cards like the GTX 940M and such, I always wished Intel Iris Pro wasn't a failure...

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1 hour ago, pas008 said:

do you think foxconn should have a say in naming apple products

lol

you think apple should pay for advertising of competitor products because of aibs are selling competing under same sub brands?

 

all kidding aside just messing around

this wont change my stance

Everyone that says things like what you quoted are looking at it from an end point of view in a fixed point of time of "now".  They don't understand anything about branding or company ownership of their own products.  Trying to convince them won't work. Because logic already went out the window.  They don't seem to get nV owns the products these AIB's are selling, without those products, AIB's don't have 70% of profits coming from those particular graphics cards sales.

 

This is what these guys don't understand, its a short term hit, these new brands will do just fine for AMD, we are looking at one year hit at most. but this hit will come at a time when AMD cards are already weak in the market.  So its kind of a double whammy.

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1 minute ago, Razor01 said:

Tell that to 70%+ of the gaming market ;)

That’s actually a very small market. 

 

Dont think AMD doesn’t have marketshare, it does, just not with dedicated cards. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

That’s actually a very small market. 

 

Dont think AMD doesn’t have marketshare, it does, just not with dedicated cards. 

 

 

Yeah and were does RTG and nV make their money, if its so small, why is nV making double or triple that of AMD per quarter?

 

You are talking about unit sales, of discrete vs APU, I'm going to narrow down this base a bit.  RTG if they had their 35 to 45% market with current margins they would still make more money then AMD's CPU division.  Why we have seen this when AMD GPU division is at around 40% kept AMD afloat even with BD.

 

At the end of the day its about money, AMD is being squeezed, you don't like it, understandable, but these companies don't care about your feelings, my feelings, or anyone else's feelings when it comes to their internal business dealings

 

It would be better to have two brands for AMD and nV cards, when AMD comes back, if they do with metrics comparative, they will already have a well established brand ready to go to help push the market to their side vs nV.

 

This is what AMD fails to recognize, look at their CPU line branding and CPU chip set branding, why is it mirroring Intel?  That is bad branding, they are not setting themselves apart from Intel all they are doing is look we are here too.  Bad, if they feel they have a great product, make it stand out on its own, give it its due attention, because that attention will spread like fire.

 

I would have simplified AMD CPU branding to Number of cores and 4 digit number afterwards that designates where it fits in line up.

 

Simple, and it would be better than the i3, i5, i7, i9 crap that intel pulls, those iX stuff have no real meaning.

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13 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

You break my i7 7500U feelings... I do agree though it is common go look for used gaming laptops and see stupid high prices for shitty specs....

lol, my Matebook X has i7 7500U xD dual-core hyperthreaded. It's ok for basic stuff but gaming? do they put that cpu in gaming laptops? it throttles even installing a windows update, so i'm not sure what kind of games you can play on there...

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If nvidia had their way, id probably be buying an nvidia mattress, tv, and coffee maker soon.

 

Hell they tried to sell a hairdryer 

 

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