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LTT in the news! IMac pro video featured in multiple articles from 'news websites'

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3 hours ago, Commodus said:

Ergh, more straight up false claims.

-snip-

If MacOS was the most used operating system it would have many more hacks and exploits than it does now, but thats the point you're trading freedom for security being locked into Apple only software behind a ton of permissions preventing you from doing anything as opposed to being able to do whatever on your OS outside of basic or store only apps. Windows 10S is just way too limiting all around for anything but cheap OEM laptops, a power user will opt for Windows 10 Pro anyway.

But since you're going label a PC as "gaming" simply because it has a discrete GPU inside,then can the imac pro be called a "gaming" PC because it doesn't have a RadeonPro WX GPU? There isn't any such Vega Pro outside of what Apple sells from what I can find.

 Most content creators are going to need more than the internal storage. Cluttering up the desk with external drives,hubs,card readers and adapters takes away the benefit of an AIO desktop. The IT department can't upgrade the computers either despite having standard RAM as Apple intends you throw it away and spend another $6k. I can see a movie set using imac pros for convenience where funding a bunch of $6k AIO's isn't a problem either, but again it's only faster because of that specialized software. IMO it isn't the different versions of Android or Windows but the ability of not having to pay the "Apple tax" to use their OS. I can get a more feature rich phone for less or whatever hardware config I'd want in a Windows PC. I think i'll have to agree to disagree, I may be harsh on Apple but their response to a computer that costs as much as a car is sad. As XenosTech mentioned I'm also surprised Dr mac isn't rushing to Apple's defense.

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I don't know what's more sad, that Apple is a successful company with this kind of behavior, or that their fans will somehow justify this (to themselves) with either ignorance or cognitive dissonance.

Ketchup is better than mustard.

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Dubs are better than subs

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5 hours ago, Commodus said:

And remember, the whole reason your phone has Google Pay/Samsung Pay/etc. is because Apple Pay came first. 

Actually, people in countries like Japan have been paying with their phones for a while before and Google Wallet had a similar feature. 

 

Where Apple Pay succeeded was adoptability. Apple Pay was not the first mobile payments solution, but it popularized it. Much like how the original Mini wasn't the first to have a transversely-mounted drivetrain but popularized it. It's popularity led others to dive into focusing on mobile payments, although it has existed before then, just that it wasn't as popular. 

 

Many of Apple's inmovations aren't all that new but their implementation and brand power have popularized their adoption. Touch ID is a good example. They weren't the first to put a fingerprint sensor on a phone but they made it usable and it got popular as a result with the aid of their branding power. 

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3 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Actually, people in countries like Japan have been paying with their phones for a while before and Google Wallet had a similar feature. 

 

Where Apple Pay succeeded was adoptability. Apple Pay was not the first mobile payments solution, but it popularized it. Much like how the original Mini wasn't the first to have a transversely-mounted drivetrain but popularized it. It's popularity led others to dive into focusing on mobile payments, although it has existed before then, just that it wasn't as popular. 

 

Many of Apple's inmovations aren't all that new but their implementation and brand power have popularized their adoption. Touch ID is a good example. They weren't the first to put a fingerprint sensor on a phone but they made it usable and it got popular as a result with the aid of their branding power. 

Next they're gonna tell us Apple made the lowercase keyboard on mobile devices 

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34 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Actually, people in countries like Japan have been paying with their phones for a while before and Google Wallet had a similar feature. 

 

Where Apple Pay succeeded was adoptability. Apple Pay was not the first mobile payments solution, but it popularized it. Much like how the original Mini wasn't the first to have a transversely-mounted drivetrain but popularized it. It's popularity led others to dive into focusing on mobile payments, although it has existed before then, just that it wasn't as popular. 

 

Many of Apple's inmovations aren't all that new but their implementation and brand power have popularized their adoption. Touch ID is a good example. They weren't the first to put a fingerprint sensor on a phone but they made it usable and it got popular as a result with the aid of their branding power. 

30 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

Next they're gonna tell us Apple made the lowercase keyboard on mobile devices 

XenosTech, D13H4RD2L1V3 is correct in a sense. The thing is, Apply historically does not innovate in the traditional sense. They refine things. This is a key value of the brand. The list of examples is very long.

 

-The original Apple computer (now colloquially referred to as the Apple I) was an improvement on already existing technology. Granted Woz was innovative in chip design at the time, it was still existing tech.

-The Lisa, and later the Macintosh were refinements of technology from Xerox PARC. They did the GUI better, a bit more affordably, and brought it to the masses.

-Desktop publishing for journalism was introduced by Apple. The Macintosh provided the first WYSIWIG system.

-The original three Powerbook laptop computers were significantly better than anything on the market when they came out.

-The original iMac redefined simplicity in setting up a computer.

-The iPod was not the first digital music player, but it became the most popular.

-The iPhone slaughtered Blackberry. Even now, when many Android phones are technically superior the entire industry still follows Apple (the notch).

-Apple's trackpads are superior to anything available on the other side.

-I could go on much, much longer.

 

Apple had its share of missteps as well. One that comes to mind is the Newton. The device created the Personal Digital Assistant, but was never very popular. It paved the way for Palm and other companies to introduce smaller competing devices. The recent Mac Pro is a bit of a joke. But still, Apple can be described as innovative.

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8 minutes ago, Randogg said:

 

XenosTech, D13H4RD2L1V3 is correct in a sense. The thing is, Apply historically does not innovate in the traditional sense. They refine things. This is a key value of the brand. The list of examples is very long.

 

-The original Apple computer (now colloquially referred to as the Apple I) was an improvement on already existing technology. Granted Woz was innovative in chip design at the time, it was still existing tech.

-The Lisa, and later the Macintosh were refinements of technology from Xerox PARC. They did the GUI better, a bit more affordably, and brought it to the masses.

-Desktop publishing for journalism was introduced by Apple. The Macintosh provided the first WYSIWIG system.

-The original three Powerbook laptop computers were significantly better than anything on the market when they came out.

-The original iMac redefined simplicity in setting up a computer.

-The iPod was not the first digital music player, but it became the most popular.

-The iPhone slaughtered Blackberry. Even now, when many Android phones are technically superior the entire industry still follows Apple (the notch).

-Apple's trackpads are superior to anything available on the other side.

-I could go on much, much longer.

 

Apple had its share of missteps as well. One that comes to mind is the Newton. The device created the Personal Digital Assistant, but was never very popular. It paved the way for Palm and other companies to introduce smaller competing devices. The recent Mac Pro is a bit of a joke. But still, Apple can be described as innovative.

That’s exactly what innovation is. An improvement on an existing idea or product.

 

This is why I cringe when people call Apple’s recent stuff “inventions”. An invention is something radically different and nothing we have totally seen before. An innovation is an improvement on an an existing idea or product.

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Really the only reason why I want Apple to burn down to ashes and off this world is that it can never play well with others and because in some segments it has suprisingly big amount of users it just shits on everything and fucks up.

 

Who rememebers when nano-SIMs were coming and being standardised? Every other phone manufacturer at the time was behind Nokia with their design for a new standard SIM card. It would have had build in memorycard for contact images, ringtones and whatever user wanted, increased safety with support for passwords instead of PIN-numbers, encryption, just totally new standard for developing phone industry. Only thing standing before that was that the ETSI wanted to have every single phone manufacturer behind the standard... And Apple went full retard asshole and only agreed to stand behind their "great" and "excelent" design, which is what we now have, just the same old SIM-card with all of the excess plastic cut away.

 

Another one good example when Apple fucked everything up was when mobile game development was rising and game engines started to create support for mobile games. Think about the fantastic feature in Unity that you could make one project and it was quite well supported on every major platform, except to build it for iOS you needed to get a Mac and different license. The only reason to buy a mac was that to get your game to the AppStore was one sentence in terms of use that stated that every AppStore app must be developed with OS X. There was no mumbo jumbo technological obstacles, just one line in the terms of use.

 

Also Apple was a reason why only now UEFI has really overcome old BIOS in PCs. With the introduction of Intel processors to Macs Apple also introduced UEFI to macs. Great move, very good upgrades to the old BIOS, except Apple also showed what you can also do with UEFI. That was hardware blocking. There was no special hardware in those 1st gen Mac Pros, it was just normal out-of-the-box Intel Xeons, just normal DDR3 RAMs, SATA HDDs, PCIe GPUs and so on. Only magic was that the UEFI blocked everyother hardware you could have used. At least in the circles I was then people really lost all hope for UEFI, because Apple painted a picture where every manufacturer could force customers to use their specific parts just by blocking everything else. What really started the disbelief was when Apple published Quadro FX 4000 (not sure if I remember the model correctly) upgrade for Mac Pro that costed around 4000€. Ok, you could throw money to Apple to get better GPU for your Mac Pro, first ever hardware upgrade... Except the Nvidia Quadro in question was just normal EVGA Quadro that costed around 2000€. Where did Apple get that price, well, the EVGA Apple Quadro came with a CD that had UEFI update that whitelisted the Quadro. The GPU itself was excatly the same that was sold everywhere, just double the price, because Apple.

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23 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Really the only reason why I want Apple to burn down to ashes and off this world is that it can never play well with others and because in some segments it has suprisingly big amount of users it just shits on everything and fucks up.

The thing is that Apple is mega right now. Unless every consumer revolts, they're an extremely long way from coming down, especially so as long as demand for Apple products remain. 

 

Like I said, I don't hate Apple but I also don't overwhelmingly like them. However, if I want Apple to change for the better, the only way to do it is for customers to vote with their wallets. I hate throwing this term, but in the business world, money talks and so as long as their strategy pays off, they won't change. 

 

It is why EA and others do what they do now. It makes money and if people keep paying up the nose for it, there's no reason for them to change. 

 

I overwhelmingly disagree with those saying that Apple should crash and burn into ashes. Because I would much rather they run into an issue where they would be forced to rethink their strategy and improve as a company. 

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Imagine if someone's cat knocked an iMac over, would they be just as big of dickheads over repair assistance?

 

 

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On 19.4.2018 at 12:11 AM, Drak3 said:

Since it's a relatively new (and very niche) device, Apple might not have the spare part allocation to fix/replace it.

Well, then they should just say: "We are sorry, but the repair will take probably 2 months as we need replacement parts shipped from China." (which would still be kind of ridicolous)

But outright refusing to repair it is just bad service.

I don't understand why Apple risks bad press over this. It does not even matter that it is LTT. The way things work nowadays somebody writes a Twitter post that blows up and it might be even worse.

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5 hours ago, Randogg said:

 

XenosTech, D13H4RD2L1V3 is correct in a sense. The thing is, Apply historically does not innovate in the traditional sense. They refine things. This is a key value of the brand. The list of examples is very long.

I know, I was being sarcastic with that comment. iOS only got a lower case keyboard 3 years ago while it's been around since forever lol

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2 hours ago, anotherriddle said:

I don't understand why Apple risks bad press over this. It does not even matter that it is LTT. The way things work nowadays somebody writes a Twitter post that blows up and it might be even worse.

Because they won't get any bad press.

Just look at all the articles and people defending them.

 

 

12 hours ago, Commodus said:

And remember, the whole reason your phone has Google Pay/Samsung Pay/etc. is because Apple Pay came first.

Ehm... Before telling others that they are making bullshit claims you might want to proof-check your own claims.

Google Wallet, which had NFC functionality, came quite a while before Apple Pay.

 

Apple Pay - Late 2014

Google Wallet - Mid 2011

 

This is actually a common theme with Apple's "inventions" or "innovations".

They take ideas from other companies and popularize them. There is nothing wrong with that, but doing the same thing other companies had done before is not innovation.

 

 

5 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

That’s exactly what innovation is. An improvement on an existing idea or product.

 

This is why I cringe when people call Apple’s recent stuff “inventions”. An invention is something radically different and nothing we have totally seen before. An innovation is an improvement on an an existing idea or product.

That's not quite true.

Innovation and improvement are not synonyms.

 

Innovation is defined as:
"a new idea, method or device"

 

An innovation must be something new. It does not need to be an entirely new product or feature, but something has to be new about it. Making a screen's colors more accurate using already existing methods is not innovative. Changing the screen materials to something never used before, which results in more accurate colors is innovative however.

 

It's not innovative to put a higher performing processor into a computer, even though it's an improvement. Shrinking the transistor size and putting in more of them is not innovative either. However, developing a method of making processors faster by using graphene transistors would be both an improvement, and an innovation.

 

Innovations does not have to be improvements either. Google Glass was innovative, but had a ton of drawbacks and backlash, resulting in a bad product.

 

I am not entirely sure, but I think the Philips CD-i was the first console to use CDs for game storage. That was very innovative, but at the end of the day it sucked compared to cartridges at the time.

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3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I am not entirely sure, but I think the Philips CD-i was the first console to use CDs for game storage. That was very innovative, but at the end of the day it sucked compared to cartridges at the time.

Yup, then sony made it popular af with the ps1

 

Edit: Philips and Sony made one each for Nintendo around the same  time but Nintendo used Philips and Sony then made the PS1

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1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Ehm... Before telling others that they are making bullshit claims you might want to proof-check your own claims.

Google Wallet, which had NFC functionality, came quite a while before Apple Pay.

 

Apple Pay - Late 2014

Google Wallet - Mid 2011

 

This is actually a common theme with Apple's "inventions" or "innovations".

They take ideas from other companies and popularize them. There is nothing wrong with that, but doing the same thing other companies had done before is not innovation.

My 2012 Nexus is an example of Google having NFC first-still don't know why a 7" tablet would need the feature used, but it has it.

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Ok so now a youtube video has been uploaded by 'Rene Ritchie'. The video basically says that apple generally wont repair products that have been 'tampered with'. The thing is that linus told andrea that he had taken apart the Imac and he probably knew that apple wouldn't repair it due to that, but the problem is that apple released a product without creating or giving out repair guides to AASPs and wont provide them with parts needed to repair the product. 

 

The comments on the video are pretty funny. Basically just more apple fanboys saying how glad they are that someone 'called out linus' on his video.

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On 18/04/2018 at 11:09 PM, RotoCoreOne said:

Yeah, people are saying that LTT broke it why should they expect apple to fix it, but, to me, LTT knew it wasn't going to be covered and were willing to pay. Since that is the case, I don't see why they should've been refused

I agree, the only valid reason I can think to not service a piece of tech is if the repair would be dangerous (e.g water damage to a UPS) or if the repair would be uneconomical

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16 hours ago, Commodus said:

Also, and this may be my biggest concern... why do you want to see the downfall of Apple?  Hurray, Apple is no more!  All hail the eternal Google and Microsoft monopolies where choice, competition and freedom are dead!  No, you want Apple to improve, not to go away.  Apple is why Microsoft embraced touch and made its own PCs; Apple is why Google iterates Android as aggressively as it does, and why the Nexus/Pixel lines exist; Apple is why Samsung has features like dual cameras and Samsung Pay.  You need that major alternative to the monocultures of Android and Windows so that they don't stagnate

Because Apple has become nothing more than paying for a name. Their products are no longer break-throughs of technology or pushing the technological envelope. They are pushing mediocre products with a high price premium. Want to have Mac's on your primarily windows setup? Better invest in a Mac Rack or alternative. Want to do forensic work on their new HS stuff? Well they are now starting to lock it down more and want to push their own forensic software down your throat (luckily there are still ways around this).

 

They look for ways to charge for every little thing. They are just a greedy company that hasn't done something to push the boundaries in a good while.

 

Yes Ipad, Ipod, and the Iphone all changed things, but those are now 8+ yr old advances. We have better options.

 

Ipad - Surface and android tablets are more powerful and do a better job.

Ipod - mostly obsolete as all phones can do this now and come with more powerful Dacs.

Iphone - Windows and android phones are just as good. You also get much better hardware options and in the case of android an unlimited amount of ways to customize it.

 

When it comes to their laptops, they are incredibly overprices for what you get. You can easily get a more powerful machine for HALF what you will pay for the apple logo and on top of that most people prefer a microsoft OS. Hell most people with a mac just run a windows OS in a parallel.

 

When it comes to their desktops it is just more of the same. You do have a limited upgrade path sometimes for a GPU, but if needs to be one they actually support and offer drivers for. The only good things they have done is stick with intel cpu's. Outside of that you are paying twice as much for half the machine. This goes for workstations or gaming setups. The Microsoft equivalent is going to be much higher value for what you get.

 

So no, I don't think them being around is causing us to get better deals. We have enough manufacturers in these sectors to keep costs and competition in line. Apple isn't competitive in these markets anyways outside of phones.

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Not that this comes with only 4gb of ram, have to pay to upgrade it to 8gb. Also comes with a 256gb ssd at this price point.

 

Now lets look at what a few comparable dells would cost.

 

image.png.3666669a80cbdfccb94cce2eddca678b.png

 

I guess everyone was right. Apple is just such a good value and so innovative compared to all the microsoft variants. This is also from a well known brand name, HP prices would be similar if not less. I could look up asus and get probably a little better deal, or acer and a MUCH better deal.

 

So in the end for what you get the mac stuff just isn't a good bang for the buck. Are they trying to say their support (not being able to get parts) is worth over twice as much? Or maybe it is because of the OS. That is surely worth another thousand dollars.

 

It is just the name you are paying for. That macbook pro will not run any better than the laptops I have listed here... on top of that it will overheat and throttle as the Macbook pro's run incredibly hot.

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40 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Ipod - mostly obsolete as all phones can do this now and come with more powerful Dacs.

My Galaxy J2 Pro cost almost $100 less than my 7th gen nano, while having the same capacity and double the audio playback time (the DAC is shit in the nano BTW). The phone can't handle any where near as much impact force though (its a nokia tough iPod surprisingly).

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5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Ehm... Before telling others that they are making bullshit claims you might want to proof-check your own claims.

Google Wallet, which had NFC functionality, came quite a while before Apple Pay.

 

Apple Pay - Late 2014

Google Wallet - Mid 2011

 

This is actually a common theme with Apple's "inventions" or "innovations".

They take ideas from other companies and popularize them. There is nothing wrong with that, but doing the same thing other companies had done before is not innovation.

I'm well aware of Google Wallet.  Here's the problem: it was a very different implementation... and it sucked.  It required Google as a go-between (modern systems don't need that intermediary), which made stores and financial institutions nervous; compatibility was often determined on a carrier-by-carrier basis on top of requiring phone support; the payment terminal infrastructure just wasn't there to make it reliably available; and to use it, you had to unlock your phone and launch the app.

 

My point wasn't that Apple invented NFC payments, because it clearly didn't.  The point is that it had the first implementation that really worked, and that Google and virtually the entire industry remodelled their NFC payment systems to match Apple's template.  We need to get away from this false notion that Apple simply slaps its name on existing technology and rides it to success, because it often doesn't; in many cases, it thoroughly reworks the technology to eliminate the pain points that other companies didn't bother to fix.  That's innovation.

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1 hour ago, AngryBeaver said:
Not that this comes with only 4gb of ram, have to pay to upgrade it to 8gb. 

False. 16 GB all configurations including the base model at $1999.

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2 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:
 

 

Not that this comes with only 4gb of ram, have to pay to upgrade it to 8gb. Also comes with a 256gb ssd at this price point.

 

Now lets look at what a few comparable dells would cost.

 

image.png.3666669a80cbdfccb94cce2eddca678b.png

 

I guess everyone was right. Apple is just such a good value and so innovative compared to all the microsoft variants. This is also from a well known brand name, HP prices would be similar if not less. I could look up asus and get probably a little better deal, or acer and a MUCH better deal.

 

So in the end for what you get the mac stuff just isn't a good bang for the buck. Are they trying to say their support (not being able to get parts) is worth over twice as much? Or maybe it is because of the OS. That is surely worth another thousand dollars.

 

It is just the name you are paying for. That macbook pro will not run any better than the laptops I have listed here... on top of that it will overheat and throttle as the Macbook pro's run incredibly hot.

You can't compare a Mac Pro with an Inspiron... sure the specs are similar, but the physical build quality and materials used are far superior. You can't just drop a milled aluminium uni-body macbook and a flimsy plastic dell in a bucket and say they are the same machine. A more fair comparison would be an XPS, Spectre, etc., and when you you again the price differences don't look as crazy.

Main Rig "Rocinante" - Ryzen 9 5900X, EVGA FTW3 RTX 3080 Ultra Gaming, 32GB 3600MHz DDR4

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2 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:
 

 

Not that this comes with only 4gb of ram, have to pay to upgrade it to 8gb. Also comes with a 256gb ssd at this price point.

 

Now lets look at what a few comparable dells would cost.

 

image.png.3666669a80cbdfccb94cce2eddca678b.png

 

I guess everyone was right. Apple is just such a good value and so innovative compared to all the microsoft variants. This is also from a well known brand name, HP prices would be similar if not less. I could look up asus and get probably a little better deal, or acer and a MUCH better deal.

 

So in the end for what you get the mac stuff just isn't a good bang for the buck. Are they trying to say their support (not being able to get parts) is worth over twice as much? Or maybe it is because of the OS. That is surely worth another thousand dollars.

 

It is just the name you are paying for. That macbook pro will not run any better than the laptops I have listed here... on top of that it will overheat and throttle as the Macbook pro's run incredibly hot.

Holy crap, you've just embarrassed yourself.

 

To start: why are you dredging up an old model?  It's not even the old one Apple keeps around for legacy's sake -- that version comes with 16GB of RAM out of the box.  Here's the current base 15-inch model, which was released last year (so it's only likely to get better soon):

 

- 2.8GHz quad Core i7

- 16GB of RAM

- 256GB, 512GB or 1TB SSDs

- Radeon Pro 555 graphics with 2GB of memory

- Four Thunderbolt 3 ports

- Touch Bar and Touch ID

 

Moreover, you're purposefully glossing over some important facts that render your comparison invalid.  Even on the old model, Apple is using full-voltage processors that are likely to run rings around the 8th-gen low-voltage parts those Dell machines are using.  Dell uses 1080p displays, where Apple uses 1800p; Dell is using Intel integrated graphics, where even the middling dedicated graphics in the MacBook Pro blow that away; and let's not get started on how lousy the battery life will be on those Inspirons despite their their low-voltage CPUs and integrated video.

 

Those particular Dell laptops aren't even in the same ballpark as the MacBook Pro.  You can argue that Dell offers more choices for 15-inch laptops, and that you don't have to pay a ton if you just want a big screen and don't care for performance, but please don't claim that they're directly comparable, as that will forever be false.

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2 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Not that this comes with only 4gb of ram, have to pay to upgrade it to 8gb. Also comes with a 256gb ssd at this price point.

On the contrary...

068E5500-C273-4F6B-828A-A07167590BCF.thumb.jpeg.1cada24a61c4184019aa24ce1e3fe021.jpeg2931D09B-0D84-4832-A0CC-11AE7174A61D.thumb.jpeg.d73709ef74e05cbac494a614b2c7dfb3.jpeg

There is more that meets the eye
I see the soul that is inside

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Holy crap, you've just embarrassed yourself.

 

To start: why are you dredging up an old model?  It's not even the old one Apple keeps around for legacy's sake -- that version comes with 16GB of RAM out of the box.  Here's the current base 15-inch model, which was released last year (so it's only likely to get better soon):

 

- 2.8GHz quad Core i7

- 16GB of RAM

- 256GB, 512GB or 1TB SSDs

- Radeon Pro 555 graphics with 2GB of memory

- Four Thunderbolt 3 ports

- Touch Bar and Touch ID

 

Moreover, you're purposefully glossing over some important facts that render your comparison invalid.  Even on the old model, Apple is using full-voltage processors that are likely to run rings around the 8th-gen low-voltage parts those Dell machines are using.  Dell uses 1080p displays, where Apple uses 1800p; Dell is using Intel integrated graphics, where even the middling dedicated graphics in the MacBook Pro blow that away; and let's not get started on how lousy the battery life will be on those Inspirons despite their their low-voltage CPUs and integrated video.

 

Those particular Dell laptops aren't even in the same ballpark as the MacBook Pro.  You can argue that Dell offers more choices for 15-inch laptops, and that you don't have to pay a ton if you just want a big screen and don't care for performance, but please don't claim that they're directly comparable, as that will forever be false.

Actually I pulled that laptop straight off their website as of my posting.

 

No clue how I got the ram wrong. Since I could have swore it said all of them come with 4gb standard with options to upgrade.

 

That being said they are using 2133 ram, which is also much slower than that of the machines I linked. Build quality doesn't account for that much of a difference.

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