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iPhone X grabs 35% of industry profits in Q4 2017

DrMacintosh
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Posted
3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

When the market accepts that price as being worth it lol. 

I'm surprised it isn't already higher than $1000 being the "endgame". It's an item that a lot of people carry in their pocket for 12+ hours every single day, it'd be very easy to justify the purchase to people on the basis of "yeah well you use it a bunch so even if it costs $5000 initially it's still only cents per hour in terms of your overall usage".

 

That said, I'm sure the guys at Apple and Samsung have thousands of people much smarter than me working on this kind of thing and have figured out that it isn't worth doing that just yet.

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Posted

It's a familiar story, but at the same time it highlights the borderline masochistic tendency of most of the mobile industry: this weird obsession with killing their own bottom lines for half a point of market share (and even then, they rarely get that half a point).  We grouse about how much Apple and Samsung phones cost and then wonder why Android Vendor X is bleeding cash, why its phones are lacklustre... you get the idea.

 

Those hefty margins are what let the big names take chances on new technology and, ultimately, why they keep chugging along relatively unperturbed.  They don't have to worry that a supply chain hiccup or a slight change in market preferences will wipe out their profits.

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1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

Where are your numbers on that?

 

There are a lot of iPhone Xs in my HS alone. Apple has a pretty weak Chinese market btw.

Now that's where you are wrong. It only seems like it has a small market because people source it from outside the country. 

 

You see, China usually don't get the same release date as the western world. To remedy that, a huge chunk of their users buy it online through third party means and have them shipped over by package at a higher price than buying it directly from Apple. I know, i did this back in highschool. Made me quite rich for a few years being a student and all so being able to flip a newly released iphone for 200-300 premium was very nice. Plus i didn't just sell one or two, i actually at one point sold over 30 in one month so you get the idea. 

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People are still buying iphone 6s's here...... Still dont get how dissinterested they are in anything else. Meanwhile while they charge their phone mid-day while asking people for their chargers. 

 

Im waiting for the impossible day when people here actually consider something else than an iphone

 

"10 999 kr for the base model, pffft take my money"

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5 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Given the A11 Bionic's processing prowess, I have wonder how effective a hidden cryptominer would be? All those poor, bored, grossly disgustingly overpowered phones need something to do.

It would be far more profitable to sell the iPhone hack to Apple.

5 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Probably not very effective once the thing shuts down from all the thermal output xD 

This is actually my number one complaint about the iPhones. I've had to put my phone in the freezer so many times. 

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4 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

But really though, I guess they should be commended?  I mean, when Linus last talked about this on WAN a while back, the numbers were something insane like 80% of the total profit was Apple's, 30% was Samsung, and they don't add to 100 because the rest of companies were actually operating at a loss, which just baffles me considering the prices they charge and the lacklustre support.  What are they spending it on?

https://www.androidpit.com/huawei-ceo-only-three-to-four-brands-can-survive

 

Ruchard Yu from Huawei actually talked about this:

Quote

Speaking at Huawei's product launch event, Richard Yu, chief executive of Huawei’s consumer business group, had some discouraging words for any ambitious OEMs, saying that given the state of the industry today, anyone with less than 10% market share would only be losing money. “In the future, only three to four vendors can survive, maybe only less than four,” stated the Huawei CEO.

Yu's claim is that smaller companies will not have enough resources to invest in the same levels of research and development, marketing and branding needed to gain global status, and will be forced to consolidate or simply give up.

 

the reason Samsung, Huawei and other android manufacturers are constantly increasing their prices is that they are trying to stabilize/increase their income. Samsung's average smartphone price is something like 350$ while Huawei's is 250$, and Apple's is along the lines of 550$ or 650$

 

Manufacturers constantly come and go, the latest one to sink, or nearly gone, is LeEco, the founder is just under a huge pile of debt.

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3 hours ago, Cookybiscuit said:

I'm surprised it isn't already higher than $1000 being the "endgame". It's an item that a lot of people carry in their pocket for 12+ hours every single day, it'd be very easy to justify the purchase to people on the basis of "yeah well you use it a bunch so even if it costs $5000 initially it's still only cents per hour in terms of your overall usage".

 

That said, I'm sure the guys at Apple and Samsung have thousands of people much smarter than me working on this kind of thing and have figured out that it isn't worth doing that just yet.

I mean... you have luxury editions...

 

https://www.androidauthority.com/porsche-design-huawei-mate-rs-review-849940/

 

You can have it for "only" 2095 euros.... cheaper version is only 1695e, or 1550 if ordered from porsche design...:P

 

do they sell?

 

oh yes, you would be surprised. Mate 9 Porsche Design sold out entirely, Mate 10 Pro Posrche deisgn is probably nearly gone and Mate RS was already out of stock. Sure, there's probably not huge stocks, but it still costs double the usual android price for a flagship...

 

ironically, I have seen a few british people saying they got the Mate RS instead of the iPhone X, as they seem to cost the same in the UK?

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6 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Until an Android OEM can deliver a hardware and software experience, along with customer support, longer device support windows, and establish a strong brand, it is unlikely that these figures will change in favor of everyone else

Except they already have. Samsung is the king market share wise. (Figures)

It's just that the iPhone X can generate a lot of profit because it's as cheap as other phones but sell at 200 to 500€ more depending on the countries. Just with that you get a phone that can be two times more profitable.

Oh and you forgot to mention that they just filled the one quarter gap before the next Samsung flagship. In the figures I showed you, Apple always get a little bit more sale than Samsung in Q4 because of that, and Samsung get back with the new flagship and sell significantly more than Apple for 3 quarters in a row (usually around 2 times the market share).

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On 2018/4/18 at 11:53 AM, captain_to_fire said:

Apple pushes a software update that will not only ban all forms of cryptomining but also bricks the iPhone once jailbroken for the sole purpose of cryptomining :P

Cool , What apple really does is live up to its expectations.Hope nothing goes wrong this time.If apple could change the extent of the phone's closure(Files move), like android, it would be close to perfection.

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9 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Insane brand + high profit margins + plus long support cycles = profit (contrary to the planned obsolescence theory towards Apple and their business model)

Uhm... I'm not sure how the fact that they have high profit margins (are you by any chance admitting they are overpriced...?) or that they have a strong brand would debunk the planned obsolescence theory, and long (software) support cycles don't really mean much at a product launch.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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5 hours ago, Commodus said:

Those hefty margins are what let the big names take chances on new technology and, ultimately, why they keep chugging along relatively unperturbed.  They don't have to worry that a supply chain hiccup or a slight change in market preferences will wipe out their profits.

Maybe so, but if they can't offer something that I deem worthy of that price then they can keep it as far as I'm concerned. In the last 3-4 years I haven't really seen any "innovation" that makes these phones even worth considering. Biometrics and screen height are ultimately little more than gimmicks, and we've had plenty of power for everyday tasks for years now.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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6 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

People are still buying iphone 6s's here...... Still dont get how dissinterested they are in anything else. Meanwhile while they charge their phone mid-day while asking people for their chargers. 

 

Im waiting for the impossible day when people here actually consider something else than an iphone

 

"10 999 kr for the base model, pffft take my money"

Yeah the 6s and 6s plus was one of the greatest iphones. Had great battery life, used NVME, huge processing power jump from 6 and had the better touchID, with a better camera, and head phone jack. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
2 hours ago, Sauron said:

Uhm... I'm not sure how the fact that they have high profit margins (are you by any chance admitting they are overpriced...?) or that they have a strong brand would debunk the planned obsolescence theory, and long (software) support cycles don't really mean much at a product launch.

I think he meant the exceptional support given to Linus' iMac ;)

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23 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Yeah the 6s and 6s plus was one of the greatest iphones. Had great battery life, used NVME, huge processing power jump from 6 and had the better touchID, with a better camera, and head phone jack. 

i agree its a great phone, but the damn price just isnt worth what others offer at that pricepoint while being newer. 

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3 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

i agree its a great phone, but the damn price just isnt worth what others offer at that pricepoint while being newer. 

Ehhh it is an isn't. The 6s is still fully supported, 64bit, and is fast enough for IOS 11 and AR kit. You can find them for around $300 which isn't bad. Some people also include the value of much better security, ecosystem, and long time updates. Look at the original pixel google already dropped it

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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5 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Ehhh it is an isn't. The 6s is still fully supported, 64bit, and is fast enough for IOS 11 and AR kit. You can find them for around $300 which isn't bad. Some people also include the value of much better security, ecosystem, and long time updates. Look at the original pixel google already dropped it

they are 600$ here. i am specifically talking about Norway here. the point is that these phones do not drop in value the same way any of the other phones do. 

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Posted

Their profits are really high damn. 

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I'm not surprised at all, too much iSheeps.

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4 hours ago, Sauron said:

Maybe so, but if they can't offer something that I deem worthy of that price then they can keep it as far as I'm concerned. In the last 3-4 years I haven't really seen any "innovation" that makes these phones even worth considering. Biometrics and screen height are ultimately little more than gimmicks, and we've had plenty of power for everyday tasks for years now.

Dual cameras are one example.  With that said, I at once agree that there haven't been many game-changing innovations... but what are you looking for, exactly?  We like to complain that tech companies aren't innovative enough these days, but we often have a nebulous idea of what that innovation would be.  Like the next iPhone or Galaxy should cook your breakfast or improve your love life.  And no, longer battery life wouldn't be innovative unless it was dramatically longer (like, say, a few days without using a gigantic battery).

 

And I'm not sure I'd call biometrics a gimmick.  Not having to type in a password while keeping your phone secure?  That's pretty innovative, I'd say -- it's making security practical for people who would otherwise leave their phones unprotected.

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24 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Dual cameras are one example.

That's still very arguable, personally when I care about picture quality I take my mirrorless and 3d video is... 3d video.

26 minutes ago, Commodus said:

but what are you looking for, exactly?

For something that doesn't cost more than my desktop when the most intensive thing it will do is play videos. I think we're getting too used to phones costing like jewelry - companies can innovate on lower end devices too, even if at a slightly lower pace (and again, it's not like we're getting anything revolutionary anyway) and what is invested in chasing the latest gimmick could be spent on better software support and optimization. Even Apple is starting to have worse and worse software releases with time, despite selling only a couple of devices at a time.

31 minutes ago, Commodus said:

We like to complain that tech companies aren't innovative enough these days, but we often have a nebulous idea of what that innovation would be.

It all depends on the price. If you're charging a premium, the device had better be premium. We don't NEED game changing innovation all the time, but if we're asked to pay more for little to no innovation then something is wrong.

33 minutes ago, Commodus said:

And no, longer battery life wouldn't be innovative unless it was dramatically longer (like, say, a few days without using a gigantic battery).

Even just doubling the current standards would be no small feat - it would be "innovation" simply because current battery technology isn't really going anywhere. I'd still rather pay for that than for animoji.

35 minutes ago, Commodus said:

And I'm not sure I'd call biometrics a gimmick.  Not having to type in a password while keeping your phone secure?  That's pretty innovative, I'd say -- it's making security practical for people who would otherwise leave their phones unprotected.

With the premise that fingerprint sensors have been around for decades and definitely were nothing new when they landed on phones - passwords remain the better method when it comes to security, and while it may be convenient to have it, I would never dream of paying extra for it. As for facial scans, they only open up more ways to bypass the security system because of their needless complexity and unavoidable inaccuracy. It's like substituting an unbreakable lock on a door with a guard. Furthermore, biometrics can't be changed. If at any point someone gets a hold of your fingerprint or facial scan, they're compromised forever.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

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3 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

they are 600$ here. i am specifically talking about Norway here. the point is that these phones do not drop in value the same way any of the other phones do. 

Oh in the US they do

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
12 minutes ago, Sauron said:

That's still very arguable, personally when I care about picture quality I take my mirrorless and 3d video is... 3d video.

It's not about image quality in the absolute sense; it's about having the best-possible image quality on the device that's with you at all times.  I'm not going to bring my mirrorless camera with me at all times just in case there's a good shot; I can't bring my mirrorless camera with me to most concerts, and I'm certainly not going to bring it to a house party.

 

15 minutes ago, Sauron said:

For something that doesn't cost more than my desktop when the most intensive thing it will do is play videos. I think we're getting too used to phones costing like jewelry - companies can innovate on lower end devices too, even if at a slightly lower pace (and again, it's not like we're getting anything revolutionary anyway) and what is invested in chasing the latest gimmick could be spent on better software support and optimization. Even Apple is starting to have worse and worse software releases with time, despite selling only a couple of devices at a time.

Well, maybe you're only using your phone for playing videos, but I sure as hell do more -- it's my work tool and a personal media device, so I appreciate bigger screens, high performance, better cameras... you get the idea.  You'd have a better argument if you said that many people buy these top-price phones without thinking about what they actually want.  But if you can afford it and a device is that important to you, why not spend extra?

 

21 minutes ago, Sauron said:

It all depends on the price. If you're charging a premium, the device had better be premium. We don't NEED game changing innovation all the time, but if we're asked to pay more for little to no innovation then something is wrong.

Don't think you quite got what I meant.  It's that we gripe about a lack of innovation but don't really know what we want.  "I don't know, something... er, better!  I'll know it when I see it!"  Not that I'd expect even an enthusiast to know exactly what should happen next (if they did, they'd have a very cushy job lined up), but it's easy to claim that companies are twiddling their thumbs when you don't actually have to brainstorm anything.

 

36 minutes ago, Sauron said:

With the premise that fingerprint sensors have been around for decades and definitely were nothing new when they landed on phones - passwords remain the better method when it comes to security, and while it may be convenient to have it, I would never dream of paying extra for it. As for facial scans, they only open up more ways to bypass the security system because of their needless complexity and unavoidable inaccuracy. It's like substituting an unbreakable lock on a door with a guard. Furthermore, biometrics can't be changed. If at any point someone gets a hold of your fingerprint or facial scan, they're compromised forever.

I wouldn't call passwords any better.  Fingerprints aren't superior to passwords, but they do provide an easier option.  And that's the point -- Touch ID and its Android follow-ups made biometrics quick and easy enough that people who previously never locked their phones actually applied a password.  Face detection... well, it's definitely imperfect now, but I'd say it's short-sighted to say it will never get better.

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Posted
13 minutes ago, kokakolia said:

I hate to be that guy, but “It’s already been done”. It’s called the Vertu Signature Touch. It was $10,000 at launch. Here’s a link:

 

Haha a smart phone phone for $10,000.

 

Apple sells iwatches for that much. I think they even sold one for $17k a few years ago. 

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