russia US and UK warn that Russia has been hacking routers worldwide

[bcredeur97]

i switched to pfsense about a year ago when we switched the gigabit and needed an upgrade just to be able to use all of the available bandwidth.

I've never had a more stable router. Thing is so robust and solid. And so configurable! It's great.

[aezakmi]

the united states talking about hacking routers and privacy LOL

[Fasterthannothing]

22 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

i switched to pfsense about a year ago when we switched the gigabit and needed an upgrade just to be able to use all of the available bandwidth.

I've never had a more stable router. Thing is so robust and solid. And so configurable! It's great.

Yeah pfSense is amazing the only issue I've had that has made me have to reboot it is for some reason there is a bug where the web GUI  will go down after a week or two its a known bug but its not completely fixed luckily it doesn't affect the actual routers systems just the GUI. So until I have to go into the GUI I never have to reboot it runs perfectly with absolutely no reboots needed unlike consumer routers that I've had that had to be rebooted almost once a week. Also the squid web caching service is amazing I have fairly slow internet at my house and it makes the internet feel like I have 3 or 4 times faster speeds. 

[bcredeur97]

15 minutes ago, Shorty88jr said:

Yeah pfSense is amazing the only issue I've had that has made me have to reboot it is for some reason there is a bug where the web GUI  will go down after a week or two its a known bug but its not completely fixed luckily it doesn't affect the actual routers systems just the GUI. So until I have to go into the GUI I never have to reboot it runs perfectly with absolutely no reboots needed unlike consumer routers that I've had that had to be rebooted almost once a week. Also the squid web caching service is amazing I have fairly slow internet at my house and it makes the internet feel like I have 3 or 4 times faster speeds. 

I used the caching for a while; found the hard drive in the Dell optiplex I have for it to be too slow (well.. not responsive enough is the appropriate term). I could change for an SSD, but im lazy (and we have gigabit fiber anyway lol)

I haven't had that bug even. interesting.

What I do need to do is get rid of our consumer grade AP's for wireless... they are junk. Literally get 50 mbps at best on the 5GHz band on the better of the two... Probably will get a ubiquiti UAP-AC-PRO and mount it on the ceiling near the middle of the house (or a closet near the middle if parent's aren't happy with that idea). Just not sure if it'll cover all the areas (house is decently big)

[Fasterthannothing]

19 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

I used the caching for a while; found the hard drive in the Dell optiplex I have for it to be too slow (well.. not responsive enough is the appropriate term). I could change for an SSD, but im lazy (and we have gigabit fiber anyway lol)

I haven't had that bug even. interesting.

What I do need to do is get rid of our consumer grade AP's for wireless... they are junk. Literally get 50 mbps at best on the 5GHz band on the better of the two... Probably will get a ubiquiti UAP-AC-PRO and mount it on the ceiling near the middle of the house (or a closet near the middle if parent's aren't happy with that idea). Just not sure if it'll cover all the areas (house is decently big)

Yeah consumer grade AP's are junk I have the Unifi AP-AC-LR and its amazing. I am looking at getting a pair of these https://unifi-nanohd.ubnt.com/ over the summer 

[bcredeur97]

4 minutes ago, Shorty88jr said:

Yeah consumer grade AP's are junk I have the Unifi AP-AC-LR and its amazing. I am looking at getting a pair of these https://unifi-nanohd.ubnt.com/ over the summer 

I actually may look into that LR model myself... seeing reviews of ppl saying it'll cover 5k sq foot homes with 2 floors lol

thanks!

[Fasterthannothing]

3 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

I actually may look into that LR model myself... seeing reviews of ppl saying it'll cover 5k sq foot homes with 2 floors lol

thanks!

Yeah the LR model covers a lot of space its shocking how far it goes compared to consumer routers.

[linustouchtips]

there's nothing more secure than a router password that i cant even remember set and forget

[LAwLz]

20 hours ago, mr moose said:

There's almost no point in talking about this.  Every time a story rises (even when there is undeniable evidence) people just dismiss it and start rambling on about fake news, false flags, false news, exploits, they do it too, NSA backdoors etc etc etc etc...   Forget the fact innocent people die everyday in gas attacks, I want to argue a moot point I have no actual knowledge of and rely on media reports that I only just claimed were fake news in the last thread. 

 

People are abhorrent. 

I think it is very good to talk about this. These types of attacks could be prevented or at the very least lessened if organizations such as the NSA actually focused their efforts on protecting their citizens, rather than attacking. Hording security vulnerabilities rather than disclosing them so that they can be fixed is what leads to these types of things.

 

Also, the US put themselves in this situation where people doubt them. Maybe, if they hadn't done things like create the marble framework, which attempts to obscure their own hacking attempts and make them appear like they originated from Russia, China or North Korea, then people would take them a bit more seriously.

 

Article about the Marble Framework can be found here, on wire.com, and the source code for it can be found here, on WikiLeaks.

[mr moose]

12 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I think it is very good to talk about this. These types of attacks could be prevented or at the very least lessened if organizations such as the NSA actually focused their efforts on protecting their citizens, rather than attacking. Hording security vulnerabilities rather than disclosing them so that they can be fixed is what leads to these types of things.

 

Also, the US put themselves in this situation where people doubt them. Maybe, if they hadn't done things like create the marble framework, which attempts to obscure their own hacking attempts and make them appear like they originated from Russia, China or North Korea, then people would take them a bit more seriously.

 

Article about the Marble Framework can be found here, on wire.com, and the source code for it can be found here, on WikiLeaks.

All I am saying is every time a discussion like this comes up, people jump on and blame everything except the actually problem.  Already we have people dismissing it because the UK and US do it too.  I mean if there is anything to discuss here it should be how to tighten security on your network. If the discussion has to get political then every one should  at least entertain the idea that russia are just as dangerous as every other country with access to the internet and a few billion to throw at cyber attacks. 

 

 

[hobobobo]

13 minutes ago, mr moose said:

All I am saying is every time a discussion like this comes up, people jump on and blame everything except the actually problem.  Already we have people dismissing it because the UK and US do it too.  I mean if there is anything to discuss here it should be how to tighten security on your network. If the discussion has to get political then every one should  at least entertain the idea that russia are just as dangerous as every other country with access to the internet and a few billion to throw at cyber attacks. 

 

 

I doubt anyones denying that russia is just as dangerous as any other guy with the same resources. The point is - its not the actual problem. The actual problem is everyone with such capabilties. And people blame everyone else not coz they are stupid, which ofc they are, but because of the driven narratives. You have to literally be retarded/so far away from this stuff that its another world to not to smell the hypocrisy and artifice of the narrative. People jump on the other side of the boat because one side of it is so tipped its hard to ignore. Thats basic human nature. If the media was more honest - there would be an uproar to fix this issues on your own side first and after and if its done - the trust would be restored and your concerns would be legitimate. As it stands -  it doesnt matter if the premise of the thread is true or not, it plays into old tropes of good/bad guys, western exceptionalism and virtue signaling. Its literally worse then useless. Fixing this stuff is beyond a pipe dream. As it stands - the best thing to do, while counterintuitive and hard, is to tune all the news not directly connected to your line of work out, live your life to the best of your ability and let the law of big numbers take care of stuff. Ah, it sounds so wonderfull that its never gonna happen

[Dabombinable]

14 minutes ago, mr moose said:

All I am saying is every time a discussion like this comes up, people jump on and blame everything except the actually problem.  Already we have people dismissing it because the UK and US do it too.  I mean if there is anything to discuss here it should be how to tighten security on your network. If the discussion has to get political then every one should  at least entertain the idea that russia are just as dangerous as every other country with access to the internet and a few billion to throw at cyber attacks. 

 

 

Its not dismissing, just pointing out that other actors are being just as shitty and hypocrites.

[Bcat00]

Hmm, i'm willing to bet the US already has the routers hacked and is just waiting to use them. 

[mr moose]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Its not dismissing, just pointing out that other actors are being just as shitty and hypocrites.

And that's fine when it is in addition to the news and relevant, but we always get half backed conspiracies with little to no definable evidence, insinuations that it is all the US's fault.  I'm not saying it isn't their fault, but it does deflect from the issue and insinuates the real enemy is someone else.  This discussion to me is just as futile as gun debate or abortion debate.  Everyone has their own ideals and they are so vested in them that they are just going to ignore all the innocent people being gassed to concentrate on blaming someone else.

 

 

[hobobobo]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

And that's fine when it is in addition to the news and relevant, but we always get half backed conspiracies with little to no definable evidence, insinuations that it is all the US's fault.  I'm not saying it isn't their fault, but it does deflect from the issue and insinuates the real enemy is someone else.  This discussion to me is just as futile as gun debate or abortion debate.  Everyone has their own ideals and they are so vested in them that they are just going to ignore all the innocent people being gassed to concentrate on blaming someone else.

 

 

You seem to not understand the underlying principle here - you should ignore it. Getting upset and infuriated for people half a globe away is a waste of time, emotion and energy. You can not solve those problems by virtue signaling or even by intervening. While i honestly despise religion, they do have more then a few good points, one of them being - be the change you want to see in the world. You cant help those people by being upset for them but you can help them by building a real society which they will have white envy for deep in their hearts. Not the one of smoke and mirrors, but genuine one. Its one side of the cold war lessons - people will want to be better and will become so if you can show them that you already manage to be better. The other side of the lesson - perception of being better acomplishes the same thing but without the lasting effect and probably leads to more ruin and misery in the long run.

 

A little side note - gun or abortion debates are stupid, both sides literally want the same thing but can not come to understand one another because of percieved differences. It goes more or less the same way on any major debate - death penalty, immigration, taxation or whatever else. Artifical devision is a magical tool

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

You seem to not understand the underlying principle here - you should ignore it. Getting upset and infuriated for people half a globe away is a waste of time, emotion and energy. You can not solve those problems by virtue signaling or even by intervening. While i honestly despise religion, they do have more then a few good points, one of them being - be the change you want to see in the world. You cant help those people by being upset for them but you can help them by building a real society which they will have white envy for deep in their hearts. Not the one of smoke and mirrors, but genuine one. Its one side of the cold war lessons - people will want to be better and will become so if you can show them that you already manage to be better. The other side of the lesson - perception of being better acomplishes the same thing but without the lasting effect and probably leads to more ruin and misery in the long run.

 

A little side note - gun or abortion debates are stupid, both sides literally want the same thing but can not come to understand one another because of percieved differences. It goes more or less the same way on any major debate - death penalty, immigration, taxation or whatever else. Artifical devision is a magical tool

I understand fully.  I am concentrating my efforts on people I can directly influence (for better or worse). The people on this forum.  I am actively pointing out the futility of ignoring the real issues whilst driving yourself further into ideals that are only perpetuated through the vacuum of like minded internet users.

 

Right here and now this discussion has it's best attributes in educating people about network security and how to understand such flaws,  because pointing the finger at other governments as being the cause of such issues only further agitates preconceived mindsets and does nothing to make people aware of what they can do.

[hobobobo]

11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I understand fully.  I am concentrating my efforts on people I can directly influence (for better or worse). The people on this forum.  I am actively pointing out the futility of ignoring the real issues whilst driving yourself further into ideals that are only perpetuated through the vacuum of like minded internet users.

 

Right here and now this discussion has it's best attributes in educating people about network security and how to understand such flaws,  because pointing the finger at other governments as being the cause of such issues only further agitates preconceived mindsets and does nothing to make people aware of what they can do.

Well, nothing to argue on the internet security part, except maybe anyone can google how to do it themselves but lacks the will/motivation/care to do so. I was mostly refering to gassing people and assigning blame prematurely. But the thing is - these are not the people you can influence directly, these are the people you can entertain yourself with. Interwebs has a nice illusion of being the shadow of reality with real people but it lacks the primary instrument of influence - action. "Actions speak louder then words" is a pretty universal thing and, sadly, can only be implemented irl. Discussions on the clear defined issues, such as internet security (its a no brainer to anyone whos vaguely familiar with internet) is mostly entertainment and stroking of the ego. Real influence is getting your own life in order, helping real people (we all here in the webs are mostly real only to ourselves) in your immidiate vicinity to do the same and slowly expanding this influence to your neighbors/block/street/district/city/country/state/country. And each of this steps is unbearably boring, hard, ungrateful and lonely. Immidiate gratification is a sweet drug and an incidious killer coz it takes not your life but your potential (it a lesson a paid dearly for). Its pointless to say you or anyone else should abandon these trivial persuits, in the end im doing the same, but focusing on the real things in your immidiate influence spehere (irl) and expanding thats sphere does seem sound

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

All I am saying is every time a discussion like this comes up, people jump on and blame everything except the actually problem.  Already we have people dismissing it because the UK and US do it too.  I mean if there is anything to discuss here it should be how to tighten security on your network. If the discussion has to get political then every one should  at least entertain the idea that russia are just as dangerous as every other country with access to the internet and a few billion to throw at cyber attacks.

I am not sure if anyone is dismissing it, and if they are they are being stupid.

Russia are dangerous, but so is the US. And I don't mean the US is a threat to Russia, I mean the US is a threat to its own citizens. Remember WannaCry? It was a slightly modified malware developed by the US government as a weapon for cyber warfare. The NSA knew about the exploit (since they developed it), but rather than inform Microsoft so that US citizens could be protected, they decided to keep it a secret for their own use. As a result, we all suffered greatly.

This is all just the pot calling the kettle black, while pretending to be the good guy.

 

The actual problem here is that rather than defend their own people, governments around the world has focused their efforts in developing ways of harming them (including their own people). It is a very self-destructive practice that needs to stop.

 

 

The US and UK warning people about attacks from Russia is like a robber warning their victim to not walk through the park alone, after they had robbed them.

I think the only appropriate response to that is "yeah, thanks for the tips, you fucking asshole".

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

Well, nothing to argue on the internet security part, except maybe anyone can google how to do it themselves but lacks the will/motivation/care to do so. I was mostly refering to gassing people and assigning blame prematurely. But the thing is - these are not the people you can influence directly, these are the people you can entertain yourself with. Interwebs has a nice illusion of being the shadow of reality with real people but it lacks the primary instrument of influence - action. "Actions speak louder then words" is a pretty universal thing and, sadly, can only be implemented irl. Discussions on the clear defined issues, such as internet security (its a no brainer to anyone whos vaguely familiar with internet) is mostly entertainment and stroking of the ego. Real influence is getting your own life in order, helping real people (we all here in the webs are mostly real only to ourselves) in your immidiate vicinity to do the same and slowly expanding this influence to your neighbors/block/street/district/city/country/state/country. And each of this steps is unbearably boring, hard, ungrateful and lonely. Immidiate gratification is a sweet drug and an incidious killer coz it takes not your life but your potential (it a lesson a paid dearly for). Its pointless to say you or anyone else should abandon these trivial persuits, in the end im doing the same, but focusing on the real things in your immidiate influence spehere (irl) and expanding thats sphere does seem sound

Who said anything about an argument.  you can discuss network security in a positive manner.  Also You seem to be laboring under the premise that no one can have their mind changed or learn from discussions on forums.  That is very possible and happens all the time.

 

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

I am not sure if anyone is dismissing it, and if they are they are being stupid.

Russia are dangerous, but so is the US. And I don't mean the US is a threat to Russia, I mean the US is a threat to its own citizens. Remember WannaCry? It was a slightly modified malware developed by the US government as a weapon for cyber warfare. The NSA knew about the exploit (since they developed it), but rather than inform Microsoft so that US citizens could be protected, they decided to keep it a secret for their own use. As a result, we all suffered greatly.

This is all just the pot calling the kettle black, while pretending to be the good guy.

 

The actual problem here is that rather than defend their own people, governments around the world has focused their efforts in developing ways of harming them (including their own people). It is a very self-destructive practice that needs to stop.

 

 

The US and UK warning people about attacks from Russia is like a robber warning their victim to not walk through the park alone, after they had robbed them.

I think the only appropriate response to that is "yeah, thanks for the tips, you fucking asshole".

I think all governments are dangerous in that regard. but My point is not about who is more dangerous as that distracts from the core issue.  There are only a few things we forum users can learn from here.  And arguing over which government is worse while people die from bomb raids and gassing is not one of them.  I only raised the gassing because that is one of the issues driving half this shit, not because I think people here are trying to blame the US for that.

[MyName13]

How do they know an attack might happen?

[TidaLWaveZ]

RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA

 

Love,

The Left

[Delicieuxz]

I would be highly suspect of any claim that the US and UK make because, in addition to it being apparent that both the US and UK lie as a first offence and defence, and as their second, third, etc., the BBC has just publicly admitted on the air that it is participating in a coordinated anti-Russia disinformation campaign, and criticized its guest (a UK admiral, and former UK Chief of Defence Intelligence), calling his truth-speaking "un-advisable", for dispelling the BBC / UK government's anti-Russia disinformation propaganda:

 

 

At least the former UK Chief of Defence Intelligence, who admitted they were constantly under huge pressure to lie while in the job, wasn't cut-off mid-interview, like this top UK general was for saying the same things:

 

https://www.rt.com/news/424078-sky-news-general-shaw/

 

Or shouted over like the former UK ambassador to Syria was on BBC radio:

 

 

 

As an obvious example of the UK's ongoing anti-Russia disinformation campaign, all the claims that the UK government has made concerning the Salisbury, UK, chemical attack, and the Novichok chemical agent have proven to be false. And the UK government outright lied about what Porton Down claimed regarding the chemical agent, and was caught deleting Twitter posts in which it asserted that Porton Down confirmed the agent to have come from Russia.

 

We now know that over 20 countries have made Novichok (the recipe for which is online for anyone to read, and has been published since the mid-1990s), including the UK and the US (the US even filed patents for weaponized Novichok in 2015), and that the USSR's stockpiles were last in the hands of the US government which dismantled Uzbekistan facility where it was made. Additionally, the USSR's stockpiles would have degraded beyond effectiveness over 25 years ago.

 

And The US has been obviously doing the same for a long time, and I'm sure the anti-Russia disinformation campaign that the BBC is participating in is the exact same one that US MSM outlets are participating in.

 

A previous US disinformation campaign that become exposed was the disgraced and discredited PropOrNot, which absurdly labelled all US news organizations that didn't simply dogmatically parrot anti-Russia propaganda hysteria as Russian puppets. Of course, the PropOrNot list was quickly debunked as obvious disinformation. And PropOrNot, itself, was found out to be a joint anti-Russia propaganda program put together by the CIA, West Ukraine's government, and US propaganda outlets such as The Daily Beast.

 

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/01/28/unpacking-the-shadowy-outfit-behind-2017s-biggest-fake-news-story/

http://yournewswire.com/propornot-cia-ukrainian-operation/

 

And as another example of both the UK and the US' disinformation campaigns against Russia, the claims the US / UK / France have made concerning the alleged Douma, Syria chemical attack have been almost entirely disproven by the testimonies of all first-hand witnesses that were the basis for the claim in the first place. And the US / UK / France strike claims made by the US have large amounts of doubt cast upon them: The facility the US touts as its primary target for receiving 76 missiles each carrying a 450 kg explosive payload, still has all its buildings standing - destroyed, but standing. 37.7 US tons of fast-moving explosives couldn't fully take down a single building within a small campus?

 

That facility also was investigated by the OPCW twice last year, with no sign of chemical weapons found, and, as reported by the OPCW just last month, was also agreed to be slated for demolition in an agreement between the OPCW and the Syrian government. So, the US' main target was... not used by Syria, and was going to be demolished anyway.

 

Russia claims the US targeted 8 sites, but hit only 3. And there is lots of footage online alleging to show missile interceptions. Perhaps the US / UK / France targeted 8 sites, with most missiles intercepted, while still hitting 3 sites, and so the US claims it only targeted 3 sites and that all 105 of its missiles went to those sites, because that's all that it hit.

 

 

And to top all this off, we know that what the US and UK are alleging Russia of doing in the OP topic are precisely what the US has been doing itself, for many years. So, if this is a threat that we should be worried about, shouldn't the US have warned us that it's doing this, years ago - and offered us solutions to protect ourselves against the US, and maybe introduced legislation making it illegal for the US to do these things - since the US government actually has the means to stop itself from doing this?

 

Taking US and UK claims at face value is foolish, as they've repeatedly demonstrated, and outright told us that they're lying to us to bias us against Russia.