FTC & EU Commission Zero in on NVIDIA GPP Calls for Investigation & Complaints

[Honderdors]

Over the years i loved Nvidia for the outstanding products. A few weeks ago in the WAN show i heard about the new GPP plan from Nvidia. As a person that deals with data collection, Hearing the extend of the GPP made me think. Let's wait and see what happens.

 

today i came across an article on wccftech, the link can be found here : 

"ftc-eu-commission-zero-in-on-nvidia-gpp-calls-for-investigation-complaints"
 

 

at to bottom of the article there is a vote section, as they already took a vote last time out when the GPP was first rummered. the initial results 

Quote

84% of you (4814/5752) said you would boycott NVIDIA and/or its GPP partners over the program’s alleged anti-consumer component

as they have  a new poll running 

 

while the Governments are moving into Tech business regulations., and legislation are being adjusted to meet general public sentiment. in the past it would take years before action was taken, the fact that they are already looking into the complaints hint to a faster response then we might think, or what is written in the aricle.

 

as i said before coming from a data collection industry, collect as little as needed to complete the goal, and inform clients of what is collected. Help them build their brand to make your own better.

 

what should/could we as consumers do to make our statement and still enjoy the Quality products that we like. how can we make our point to large cooperation's without loosing out ...  

 

(i up dated the post to be on topic, i am not very good in writing )

[Crunchy Dragon]

Please edit your post to adhere to Tech News posting guidelines or it will be moved out of Tech News.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/11724-posting-guidelines-read-before-posting/

[porina]

I tried sifting through the wccf post to find anything... and what's left after the usual fluff was practically nothing. Basically some people may have been reporting the GPP. It is not really a surprise that the organisations named will take a look at reports, especially if there are significant quantity or quality of reports. At most, that's where we're at now. It isn't news yet, that next milestone will be if they decide to do a formal investigation.

[AresKrieger]

Yeah whatever people can complain if they like but it doesn't make something illegal, it doesn't actually limit what the companies involved in terms of what they can sell they simply can't use the same branding unless there is something in the agreement that is beyond that this will go nowhere. It doesn't actually affect the products available to consumers, all it changes is the box.

 

And if the polling were actually correct then it is quite clear the GPP would not have need to have legal action against it, it would simply fall apart due to angry customers boycotting it.

[porina]

7 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

And if the polling were actually correct then it is quite clear the GPP would not have need to have legal action against it, it would simply fall apart due to angry customers boycotting it.

The poll at best would indicate the feeling of people who arrived at that page to take the poll. I wonder how many nvidia product users have even ever heard of wccftech... I'm guessing it wont be a significant proportion.

[mr moose]

You mean people are asking the FTC to investigate?  who would have thought that even possible.  

[RagnarokDel]

For whatever it's worth, I sent a complaint to the competition bureau in Canada and OPC in Québec (wasnt too sure who I should send it to) and the competition bureau sent me a reply email the other day. They didnt say whether they were going to investigate only that if they investigate, it will be privately.

[Razor01]

6 hours ago, porina said:

The poll at best would indicate the feeling of people who arrived at that page to take the poll. I wonder how many nvidia product users have even ever heard of wccftech... I'm guessing it wont be a significant proportion.

 

you mean WTFtech? lol

[Carclis]

11 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

it doesn't actually limit what the companies involved in terms of what they can sell they simply can't use the same branding

I agree. They can totally have the same product variety in their gaming line now that they're being restricted to a single hardware vendor. I mean they can just make up a new brand and sell their other products under that and surely it would be as well known and reputable as their other ones. That won't take any additional time or money either, right?

[Razor01]

The funny thing about this.  Does anyone even remember what AMD did to gainward and why Palit left AMD as a selling partner?
 

http://vrworld.com/2009/05/27/gainward-and-palit-blast-amd-for-their-gpu-product-policy/

Quote

 

,...... and not offering a reference based product. We asked what about ATI Radeon 4890 and 4770 parts, and the answers were surprising and go in the line of ATI not allowing them to release an overclocked or a custom PCB-based product until top tier partners do the same.

The reason why AMD allegedly did not sell 4770/4890 chips to Gainward was the Radeon 4850 card with GDDR5 memory. Partners did not like what Gainward did, ATI requested that Gainward stops advertising and selling the 4850 GDDR5 card. Gainward refused to do so. This was followed by the lack of 4850 chips for Palit, and the "punishment" was the lack of any 4770/4890 allocation.

 

 

 

Come one guys, everyone has these types of dealings lol.

 

Opps where was the uproar back then?  Just because nV is going to make all their AIB partners and OEM's who are part of the GPP tier one partners is a major problem here right?

 

I'm going to say this.  These companies can sell GPU's and allocate as they wish to whom ever they wish.

 

Kyle now has no backing from AIB's and can't get any more info, so now he is making things up about OEM's.  Yeah I have a friend at a very high position in the gaming side of things at Dell and a prior employee of the IHV's game dev programs, his articles have many mistakes.  Kyle is either talking to the wrong people, or people that doen't understand what the contract is about.  Pretty much my take on this is correct, Kyle is barking up the wrong tree. 

 

Law suits pending my ASS lol. 

 

Coming from a person that can't even read the contract properly he is making assumptions like that.  That is just bad.

[Jito463]

1 hour ago, Razor01 said:

The funny thing about this.  Does anyone even remember what AMD did to gainward and why Palit left AMD as a selling partner?
 

http://vrworld.com/2009/05/27/gainward-and-palit-blast-amd-for-their-gpu-product-policy/

I'm not seeing the moral equivalence, here.  The AMD/Ati + Palit issue (as I read it) was AMD dictating in what form the cards were sold under their brand with one specific manufacturer.  The Nvidia issue is them claiming to own the gaming brands of every manufacturer (and don't try to tell me that the GPP is optional, because any company that doesn't sign up for the GPP is pretty much shooting themselves in the foot in the competition with other AIB partners).

[Razor01]

2 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I'm not seeing the moral equivalence, here.  The AMD/Ati + Palit issue (as I read it) was AMD dictating in what form the cards were sold under their brand with one specific manufacturer.  The Nvidia issue is them claiming to own the gaming brands of every manufacturer (and don't try to tell me that the GPP is optional, because any company that doesn't sign up for the GPP is pretty much shooting themselves in the foot in the competition with other AIB partners).

 

 

You don't see the moral equivalent of a partner who got hurt by not getting allocation of GPU's because they didn't do what the IHV wanted them to do?

 

At least nV is being upfront about it and not passing judgement later down the line right?  If you aren't part of GPP this is what you don't get.  Straight forward.  You don't get allocation of GPU's at launch.  You don't get MDF.  Etc.  At least now the partners know where they are at.  Unlike before, when a partner went out of line.  They don't get allocation mysteriously out of the blue.  But the up side is if they are partners even the smaller guys get the same benefits as the bigger guys.  So if brand XYZ is part of GPP they get the same benefits as nV's #1 seller.

[hobobobo]

2 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

So if brand XYZ is part of GPP they get the same benefits as nV's #1 seller.

Cant really say that without knowing the full terms, can you?) More correct would be to say the start at the same baseline of support from nV, how it goes from there is anyones guess, they might as well discriminate inside the gpp

[Jito463]

1 minute ago, Razor01 said:

So if brand XYZ is part of GPP they get the same benefits as nV's #1 seller.

Do you seriously believe that?  A company that buys 'X' thousands of units gets treated identically to one that buys 'Y' thousands of units?  GPP or no, that's just not going to happen.

3 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

You don't see the moral equivalent of a partner who got hurt by not getting allocation of GPU's because they didn't do what the IHV wanted them to do?

I'm more looking at the "why" of what happened, rather than the end result.

[Razor01]

12 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Do you seriously believe that?  A company that buys 'X' thousands of units gets treated identically to one that buys 'Y' thousands of units?  GPP or no, that's just not going to happen.

I'm more looking at the "why" of what happened, rather than the end result.

 

 

yes I do believe that, because that is what the GPP pretty much stating, right now smaller guys don't get the same benefits as the bigger guys, do you know why the smaller guys didn't get launch partner status before, or even custom board design capabilities from nV?  Because of the risk nV has to take if something goes wrong.  Those warranties are not solely on the AIB's if something goes wrong and they need to replace the GPU, nV is also on the hook for that they are splitting the costs with those AIB's.  So either you get those extra benefits with the GPP as the bigger guys get were getting without the GPP or there is no further talk about it EVER.  For the bigger guys, they are forced to do it because they want those benefits.  For all AIB's MDF is something they need without that they are all screwed, they don't make enough money on graphics card sales to turn profits, maybe to break even but not turn profits.

 

Why did Gainward and Palit get their allocation cut then?  Well because they made custom boards with GDDR5 which AMD didn't want to them to do to give favor for their tier 1 partners.

 

What would be better nV saying, you can't do something since you are not in our GPP or down the road when you want to do something, nV says sorry we aren't helping you out of the blue to make a custom board design.  You can do it on your own because you have the tech specs.

[Jito463]

7 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

Why did Gainward and Palit get their allocation cut then?  Well because they made custom boards with GDDR5 which AMD didn't want to them to do to give favor for their tier 1 partners.

I'm not contesting that, but taking exception to a manufacturer of their cards when they produce designs not approved by AMD, is not the same as saying "all your gaming brands are belong to us" (sorry, couldn't resist).

[Razor01]

That isn't what nV stated though, that is what Kyle thought nV stated, by taking an excerpt out of the contract.  View the interview with Pcgamer and Kyle, he reads out the "agreed gaming brand" another words the brand needs to be approved by both nV and partner to which ever becomes exclusive for nV's cards.

 

 

[mark_cameron]

On 15/04/2018 at 6:28 PM, Honderdors said:

Over the years i loved Nvidia for the outstanding products. A few weeks ago in the WAN show i heard about the new GPP plan from Nvidia. As a person that deals with data collection, Hearing the extend of the GPP made me think. Let's wait and see what happens.

 

today i came across an article on wccftech, the link can be found here : 

"ftc-eu-commission-zero-in-on-nvidia-gpp-calls-for-investigation-complaints"
 

 

at to bottom of the article there is a vote section, as they already took a vote last time out when the GPP was first rummered. the initial results 

as they have  a new poll running 

 

while the Governments are moving into Tech business regulations., and legislation are being adjusted to meet general public sentiment. in the past it would take years before action was taken, the fact that they are already looking into the complaints hint to a faster response then we might think, or what is written in the aricle.

 

as i said before coming from a data collection industry, collect as little as needed to complete the goal, and inform clients of what is collected. Help them build their brand to make your own better.

 

what should/could we as consumers do to make our statement and still enjoy the Quality products that we like. how can we make our point to large cooperation's without loosing out ...  

 

(i up dated the post to be on topic, i am not very good in writing )

 

Certainly in Europe - the law is already there under Competition Law regulations.

In the US the law is there although the Trump administration would be probably more loath to enforce it.

Ultimately the threat of private prosecution (in US) and other jurisdictions actions (Europe) made this a complete non-starter.

 

General consumers don't often realise - Competition Law is entirely consumer focused. It acts against 'anti competitive practices' that are bad for consumers.
 

[Okjoek]

I'll boycott nVIDIA. I coincidentally already did.

[imreloadin]

On 4/16/2018 at 1:11 PM, Razor01 said:

The funny thing about this.  Does anyone even remember what AMD did to gainward and why Palit left AMD as a selling partner?
 

http://vrworld.com/2009/05/27/gainward-and-palit-blast-amd-for-their-gpu-product-policy/

 

 

Come one guys, everyone has these types of dealings lol.

 

Opps where was the uproar back then?  Just because nV is going to make all their AIB partners and OEM's who are part of the GPP tier one partners is a major problem here right?

 

I'm going to say this.  These companies can sell GPU's and allocate as they wish to whom ever they wish.

 

Kyle now has no backing from AIB's and can't get any more info, so now he is making things up about OEM's.  Yeah I have a friend at a very high position in the gaming side of things at Dell and a prior employee of the IHV's game dev programs, his articles have many mistakes.  Kyle is either talking to the wrong people, or people that doen't understand what the contract is about.  Pretty much my take on this is correct, Kyle is barking up the wrong tree. 

 

Law suits pending my ASS lol. 

 

Coming from a person that can't even read the contract properly he is making assumptions like that.  That is just bad.

Man you'd fit right in with the current US executive administration with that level of "whataboutism"...

 

Just because someone else did something similar doesn't make it right. AMD was in the wrong then just as nVidia is in the wrong now.

[Razor01]

53 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

Man you'd fit right in with the current US executive administration with that level of "whataboutism"...

 

Just because someone else did something similar doesn't make it right. AMD was in the wrong then just as nVidia is in the wrong now.

There is no such thing as a Gov forcing a company to sell products to its partners, unless a contract is on going and then broken that is the only way it can be perused, these companies have ways of getting around that, because of finite manufacturing amounts they can say their Tier 1 partners had % of the allocation for a certain amount of time. 

 

Is it crappy sure, but its not like anyone can do anything about, because well no one outside of the Fab and the guy ordering from the Fab knows how much that finite amount is.

 

As I stated before Kyle made things up about the OEM's, OEM's already had contracts with Intel for similar benefits from Intel and AMD, and they couldn't break those to sign nV's GPP, and this is what Steve found out at GN.

[Kamjam21xx]

Everytime i hear GPP i cant help but think of opp.

 

I vote nay on GPP

Get down with GPP!

 

Edit: nvidia might as well have paid somebody to remake this song for GPP and explain it to us all for transparency.

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Everytime i hear GPP i cant help but think of opp.

 

I vote nay on GPP

Get down with GPP!

 

Edit: nvidia might as well have paid somebody to remake this song for GPP and explain it to us all for transparency.

There is nothing Nvidia could have done to improve their public image.  Internet narrative kills business regardless of the companies intentions.  It has been a well established fact that people love to spread bad PR, long before the internet was even a thing this has been happening.  Now with the internet, you can post so much so fast and you can literally start a viral anti whatever campaign and be legally immune from the consequences.   Regardless of whether Nvidia have actually don anything wrong or not, they have already been found guilty and had bad PR spread from hinder to yon.  Only time will tell how bad it really is.  My feeling is like all things it will blow over and people will forget (except those who are still wanting to keep the agenda alive).

[Kamjam21xx]

40 minutes ago, mr moose said:

There is nothing Nvidia could have done to improve their public image.  Internet narrative kills business regardless of the companies intentions.  It has been a well established fact that people love to spread bad PR, long before the internet was even a thing this has been happening.  Now with the internet, you can post so much so fast and you can literally start a viral anti whatever campaign and be legally immune from the consequences.   Regardless of whether Nvidia have actually don anything wrong or not, they have already been found guilty and had bad PR spread from hinder to yon.  Only time will tell how bad it really is.  My feeling is like all things it will blow over and people will forget (except those who are still wanting to keep the agenda alive).

Im calling bs, my common sense already debunked the first sentence. Didnt read the rest.

[Arika]

hang on something does add up

 

Quote

FTC & EU Commission Zero in on NVIDIA GPP Calls for Investigation & Complaints

Quote

while the Governments are moving into Tech business regulations., and legislation are being adjusted to meet general public sentiment. in the past it would take years before action was taken, the fact that they are already looking into the complaints hint to a faster response then we might think, or what is written in the article.

 

so they are taking action that isn't currently regulated, and by the time the laws are implemented GPP will have been over for years.

 

you cant change the laws to go back to convict for something that happened prior to the legislation being put in place.