Overwatch's depth and complexity is underrated

[minervx]

From what I observe, the SR to skill level ratio is quite parabolic.

 

The difference between 3600 and 3900 is about as big as the difference between 1000 and 2000-2500.

[Kukielka]

1 minute ago, NMS said:

Honestly, I feel like you need to play with friends and ONLY them. Sure, you need to find 5 that will match your skill level, but that will solve all your problems.

That is also a huge problem. I have 3 Smurf Accounts just so that I can play with my friends. (tbh Competetive is the only real mode in this game)

The fact that I level alts annoys me.

The fact that I get lootboxes for my alts annoys me.

The fact that I wasted 100€ on this game (no lootboxes) annoys me.

[minervx]

4 minutes ago, NMS said:

Honestly, I feel like you need to play with friends and ONLY them. Sure, you need to find 5 that will match your skill level, but that will solve all your problems.

Except, the matchmaking system punishes group queue with longer load times and opponents of higher rank when a similarly ranked group cannot be found.  Solo queue is just inherently more advantageous.  And this is true of all ranks.  Why would a Masters player want to do a 3 or 4 stack when they're just going to get paired up against GM solo queue players that are way better than them?

 

If you think I'm wrong: ask yourself this.  Do you ever often find yourself pressing the Stay As Team button after a game?  Most players don't, and this is not by chance.  It's because they know the matchmaker is going to put them in a worse position than if they were to just solo queue.

[NMS]

1 minute ago, Kukielka said:

That is also a huge problem. I have 3 Smurf Accounts just so that I can play with my friends. (tbh Competetive is the only real mode in this game)

The fact that I level alts annoys me.

The fact that I get lootboxes for my alts annoys me.

The fact that I wasted 100€ on this game (no lootboxes) annoys me.

We all make sacrifices.

 

1 minute ago, minervx said:

Except, the matchmaking system punishes group queue with longer load times and opponents of higher rank when a similarly ranked group cannot be found.  Solo queue is just inherently more advantageous.  And this is true of all ranks.  Why would a Masters player want to do a 3 or 4 stack when they're just going to get paired up against GM solo queue players that are way better than them.?

Well of course queuing up solo is better for your rank, but not the best. In my opinion, a 3-stack is the best because then you won't get the horrible matchmaking system but will eliminate that chance of getting more random players which could be problematic.

[Xander Cousins]

Soo i really wanna know why people think if you are a good player you well be able to climb the ranks without worries. The good players makes it slightly easier but you still have the RNG of your team being on par/ in sync with ya or not and causing the whole match to be an uphill battle. 

 

The Games competitive is purely done around your teamwork. Which is why you tend to get penalised no matter how well you play and lose. 

[Kukielka]

12 hours ago, Alex Colson said:

Soo i really wanna know why people think if you are a good player you well be able to climb the ranks without worries. The good players makes it slightly easier but you still have the RNG of your team being on par/ in sync with ya or not and causing the whole match to be an uphill battle. 

 

The Games competitive is purely done around your teamwork. Which is why you tend to get penalised no matter how well you play and lose. 

Up until Master you performance is beeing taken account for, meaning you gain more / loose less sr if you play good and vice-versa.

It's not uncommon to gain ~100sr and only lose 12sr if you play decently.

[Xander Cousins]

1 hour ago, Kukielka said:

Up until Master you performance is beeing taken account for, meaning you gain more / loose less sr if you play good and vice-versa.

It's not uncommon to gain ~100sr and only lose 12sr if you play decently.

But your still gonna be dropping if your team doesn't perform sub par, I Know the SR system removes less depending on your performance but it also penalises good floaters because they don't use their main.

 

And I am not basing this on statistics, I am basing this on personal experience with myself and a friend who does this regularly, 

 

One season he was playing his main while I played floater with characters I don't commonly pick (Played above average for the characters majority of the matches) Since he was playing is Main through Placements while I floated. our SR was DRASTICALLY different. He ended in High Plat around the 2900 so very close to Diamond, while mine was placed Low Plat borderline Gold around 2560 mark. 

 

Next season we swapped, I stayed my mains (Reinhardt & Lucio) while he floated between what the team needed when placements finished the results where reversed I was at the 2890 mark while due to him floating he fell 2 ranks into Gold (Last season he ended Mid diamond) and not borderline gold/Plat it was borderline Silver/Gold around the 2200 mark.

 

So it does annoy me when people say Statistically both teams have a chance of getting trolls but your team has less of a chance, I'm sorry get that BS reasoning out here because statistics are a lot different to real life scenarios of this happening.

 

And before I get people saying 'oh your ignoring the stats because you can't admit your bad' Fuck off I know I ain't a great player I know if I want to be in GM I'm gonna need to play this game religiously and go into more depth on a lot of the other characters. But for how my game play is majority of my matches that my team does well or realises what I am to them my character play style is above average.  

 

And when I mean 'or realises what I am to them' I'm talking about the fact I usually play defender class Reinhardt so when they realise I am there to protect them and not to be a thing to just run pass it goes smoothly (Majority of the time). 

[Xander Cousins]

17 hours ago, minervx said:

If you think I'm wrong: ask yourself this.  Do you ever often find yourself pressing the Stay As Team button after a game?  Most players don't, and this is not by chance.  It's because they know the matchmaker is going to put them in a worse position than if they were to just solo queue.

I Have done this a couple times and it has actually helped. you get a 5 man team that you performed well with you can continue to do well until you hit that wall that said team cannot pass unless they improve or learn to adapt. 

[Kukielka]

16 minutes ago, Alex Colson said:

But your still gonna be dropping if your team doesn't perform sub par, I Know the SR system removes less depending on your performance but it also penalises good floaters because they don't use their main.

 

And I am not basing this on statistics, I am basing this on personal experience with myself and a friend who does this regularly, 

 

One season he was playing his main while I played floater with characters I don't commonly pick (Played above average for the characters majority of the matches) Since he was playing is Main through Placements while I floated. our SR was DRASTICALLY different. He ended in High Plat around the 2900 so very close to Diamond, while mine was placed Low Plat borderline Gold around 2560 mark. 

 

Next season we swapped, I stayed my mains (Reinhardt & Lucio) while he floated between what the team needed when placements finished the results where reversed I was at the 2890 mark while due to him floating he fell 2 ranks into Gold (Last season he ended Mid diamond) and not borderline gold/Plat it was borderline Silver/Gold around the 2200 mark.

 

So it does annoy me when people say Statistically both teams have a chance of getting trolls but your team has less of a chance, I'm sorry get that BS reasoning out here because statistics are a lot different to real life scenarios of this happening.

 

And before I get people saying 'oh your ignoring the stats because you can't admit your bad' Fuck off I know I ain't a great player I know if I want to be in GM I'm gonna need to play this game religiously and go into more depth on a lot of the other characters. But for how my game play is majority of my matches that my team does well or realises what I am to them my character play style is above average.  

 

And when I mean 'or realises what I am to them' I'm talking about the fact I usually play defender class Reinhardt so when they realise I am there to protect them and not to be a thing to just run pass it goes smoothly (Majority of the time). 

You are basicly saying what I am saying.

Playing your main means that you are better with this hero, than with any other hero, which will result in you earning more sr. The better you play, the more sr you get (atleast till master, i fucking hate that limitation btw.).

If you actually are better than average, then you just need to play and you'll eventually get a higher rank. It's not rocket science.

If you only play like 10 games, well yeah there's a chance you'll lose all of them, Thats how statistics work.

This will even out the more you play tho.

 

You dont need to play religiously to get to GM btw, lol.

[Xander Cousins]

1 minute ago, Kukielka said:

You are basicly saying what I am saying.

Playing your main means that you are better with this hero, than with any other hero, which will result in you earning more sr. The better you play, the more sr you get (atleast till master, i fucking hate that limitation btw.).

If you actually are better than average, then you just need to play and you'll eventually get a higher rank. It's not rocket science.

If you only play like 10 games, well yeah there's a chance you'll lose all of them, Thats how statistics work.

This will even out the more you play tho.

I Understand the higher your pool the more accurate the results become, What I'm saying is that the game purposely penalises Floaters because they technically don't have a main. So on what I call my Main characters Reinhardt & Lucio I will get average SR gain/Lose per game due to me being a floater they won't be recognised as mains due to the fact that I also float between other Healers, Tanks, DPS etc depending on the teams needs, So my mains only actually have like 3hrs+ on the rest of the floaters I would pick. If I pick the other floaters that are 3hrs behind my two mains the get penalised harshly because they won't be commonly picked.

 

So it agitates me when I play a floater preform above average for that character and we end up loosing due to reasons (Spanning from anything really) and I get punished by 100sr + drop. 

 

I have actually played a game as a floater in competitive and got a sr lose equivalent to me just leaving the match and not joining back which I would call BS.

 

In my personal opinion the SR system should be flipped Fixed gain/lose of 25SR till Diamond then gain/lose depending on your character play skill which won't be judged by time you played but judge by your regions average for said character. So people who main will still be able to get the SR the deserver if they play above average but it would also rewards floaters that play above average we decent SR gain/lose. 

 

Like my biggest annoyance is people saying this game isn't affected by your teammates when it is. The Game was Designed to be a TEAM Competitive game which is why teams that work together well end up winning. So ya 'It's my teamsfault we lost' is a shitty thing to say but in some occasion that can be true because of people trickling in or not combining Ults when they are able to. Players can solo team kill IF the Setup has been made, People can Push and capture points If the setup has been made, People can out play other Tanks IF the setup has been made. The game is based to purely be team work. 1 person can only do so much without aid from a teammate. 

[Kukielka]

40 minutes ago, Alex Colson said:

I Understand the higher your pool the more accurate the results become, What I'm saying is that the game purposely penalises Floaters because they technically don't have a main. So on what I call my Main characters Reinhardt & Lucio I will get average SR gain/Lose per game due to me being a floater they won't be recognised as mains due to the fact that I also float between other Healers, Tanks, DPS etc depending on the teams needs, So my mains only actually have like 3hrs+ on the rest of the floaters I would pick. If I pick the other floaters that are 3hrs behind my two mains the get penalised harshly because they won't be commonly picked.

 

So it agitates me when I play a floater preform above average for that character and we end up loosing due to reasons (Spanning from anything really) and I get punished by 100sr + drop. 

 

I have actually played a game as a floater in competitive and got a sr lose equivalent to me just leaving the match and not joining back which I would call BS.

 

In my personal opinion the SR system should be flipped Fixed gain/lose of 25SR till Diamond then gain/lose depending on your character play skill which won't be judged by time you played but judge by your regions average for said character. So people who main will still be able to get the SR the deserver if they play above average but it would also rewards floaters that play above average we decent SR gain/lose. 

 

Like my biggest annoyance is people saying this game isn't affected by your teammates when it is. The Game was Designed to be a TEAM Competitive game which is why teams that work together well end up winning. So ya 'It's my teamsfault we lost' is a shitty thing to say but in some occasion that can be true because of people trickling in or not combining Ults when they are able to. Players can solo team kill IF the Setup has been made, People can Push and capture points If the setup has been made, People can out play other Tanks IF the setup has been made. The game is based to purely be team work. 1 person can only do so much without aid from a teammate. 

You're saying that the game cares whether you are a main, or not?

 

That's totally off, the game doesn't give a shit whether you barely or often play that hero. The game doesn't try to recognise what your main heroes are, because it simply doesnt care. It merely judges your performance of that single game you just played and rewards you with SR accordingly.

You play better with your mains, and worse with all the other heroes.

 

This is also the reason why over the span of like a hundred games your mates don't matter at all. Even if you lose 2 out of 3 games, you still gain SR if you play good enough.

[GSTARR]

I'd agree if there weren't such a distinct meta that closed off several of those factors and limited character match-ups

[Brooksie359]

On 4/16/2018 at 2:25 PM, dieegoperi said:

It's not old, CSGO may be old, but Overwatch isn't

I think it's underrated because, as a friend of mine said (CSGO player) "don't like those colorful shitty character with superpower and stuff" and it's a hard game, half of the teammates don't co-operate (they just pick Genjo, Widowmaker, Hanzo, McCree, Tracer, Brigitte, etc to have fun, get the potg and meh they don't care if they win or lose, they got the potg)

It's hard to join a co-operative team that provides solutions to enemy composition, you can die 10 times in a row and still be the best player, just because you don't let your teammates die or the point to be taken

It's hard to explain, but it's funny to play, even more with friends!

I am one of those people that plays basically only dps. I switch to different dps when needed but primarily stick to mccree tracer soldier sometimes doomfist. I could play healers and rank up higher but that's not fun so why bother. 

[Brooksie359]

On 4/24/2018 at 3:56 AM, Alex Colson said:

As you just mentioned Statistically, meaning only really on paper is that correct. The game has no intention to put bad players into your team or another team as it is basing on your SR of said Season and the stats you get, this being gold medals, W/L ratios, K/D ratios etc on a number of characters. the game throws people together thinking each player will go the desired role it thought they would go to help the team comp. but doesn't work out like that which is where you get trollers, 1-Trick ponies and Throwers that don't care. 

 

Yes we may not see what goes on for the enemies team and that we cannot see what other teammates are doing. Being someone who plays a tank the biggest downside to me is I NEED to trust my teammates to output the damage that can take down their tank or take some players down. Along with that I cannot see what happens behind me so my defensive judgement is purely down to what's in front of me and what people communicate to me. Finally I ain't a player that jumps to oh my teams trash anytime I lose, I know other players will have their own issues to deal with, which is why I don't complain about healing until absolutely needed (I Need Healing) As I don't know about the other players conditions or the healers current situation being they are being targeted and trying to stay up or what etc. 

 

 

This response you took in the wrong context, When I mentioned if your team doesn't aid in some form it means overall the WHOLE TEAM not just everyone but you. If I don't cooperate then it doesn't work if other players don't cooperate it won't work. I know people have own issues among the game when in a match like that one genji or pharah or sniper that is targeting them, I know this too well as when you a healer you are targeted a lot if you are the teams Key Damage dealer you are targeted if you are a threat to a counter you are targeted. So I ain't saying 'My team is Sh** loosely' when I do get to a point of frustration where that comes into play it generally is Valid. For example letting go an easy pick, Wasting an ult just to keep yourself alive when it could have been used more strategically, Not remaining behind your shield player while doing damage. All these are valid for said quote as why not use something you have and why not think before you ult. as you mentioned there is more to the game than just what is seen basically and I do know about it. As you have listed these underline skills required prior. 

 

But then do you lose because of said person flexing or because no one else who does better thought of going tank and having said player take their role if they perform better. Flex players usually are better than 1-trick-ponies as they can play many characters and aren't useless when their counter comes into play as they can change around it if need be. Secondly the player is flexing because this is a higher chance of winning than him going hey I'm gonna play my main fuck being a tank that we really need. 

 

Yes this is true it is to show your overall view but again, Does a win rate reflect your skill as said role or the skill as working as a team. This comes back to my prior argument that a average team with Great teamwork and coordination will perform better than above average players with not coordination or teamwork. Why? because as mention the game is designed to be a TEAMPLAYER not a lone wolf so going on about hey I have a high W/L rate it comes down to you having actually good team mates that can support your and give advantage to you and your team when need be. If the W/L rate was based on player skill then it wouldn't be the way the game is today as you could have one player pick a character and beat a team which is impossible in this game without aid. 'Genji team wipes' , 'D.Va team wipes' etc isn't solo plays they are setups, Done by combining ults like Grave and Genji or D.Va , or Hammer Down with Genji or D.Va bomb. or other ults that work together Mei's Blizzard or Anna's damage boost on a player, Mercy's healing along with Mcree's Dead eye, Winstons Ape Rampage with D.va bomb or others. Like you can combo a good few of ults to get team wipes or you can just throw all your ults at a team and that usually works. 

 

In short the game is DESIGNED to be a team player, while your trying to imply it isn't with the stasis that your W/L purely depends on your game play. As you said about the 1/3 of even matches they can go both ways, It being your game play let the team down or vica versa, where a team mate didn't have great luck or didn't perform on par to their usual. Those matches are usually the best because you KNOW all your teammates are working together as hard as they can but just couldn't because of bad luck, mis placement etc. So again in those 1/3 of even matches it still relies on teammates AND yourself to play their A game. 

I have gotten to masters playing without talking in voice chat and playing primarily dps. If you are good enough you will climb and it really is a numbers game. If you are stuck it's because you aren't good enough and not your team holding you back. 

[Brooksie359]

On 4/19/2018 at 8:24 PM, minervx said:

Statistically yes.  Is there any objective reason why the game would send all the bad players to just your teams?  Almost every player in competitive has this complaint.  

 

It doesn't seem like that because our eyes don't see everything that's going on.

 

* At the start, you see your team's imbalanced comp, but not the enemy's.

* You don't see or hear the enemy's team chat, even though they're arguing too.

* An enemy sniper looks like a threat to your life, while your sniper looks like they're just standing there.  You don't see the space that your allied sniper is creating.

* You see the enemy Genji/Tracer that's harassing you, but the Genji/Tracer on your team that's harrassing the enemy is not in your field of view, so you don't see it.

 

But that's the only objective and scientific metric.  There are controls and variables.  The maps/comps/team mates/enemies change, but you are the only factor that is present in 100% of your games.  

 

If only 10-20 games were played and a low win rate is had, I would say, play more games.  But if someone played a lot of games and they have low win rate, it's them (not their team mates).  Central limit theorum, basically.

 

The issue with some of the other metrics is they are not precise.  

* Medals, for example, are worthless if they're not contributing to wins.  Doing a lot of damage means nothing if kills aren't being confirmed.  Confirming kills means nothing if those kills are being confirmed after a team fight has already been lost. 

* Anecdotes are subject to bias - not out of intent but just a limitation of being human.  We prefer to remember the times we carried but lost, but we don't put as much emphasis on when we're underperforming.

 

 

But are you sure its usually your team's fault?  Are you sure you're aiding your team well?  The issue is that we only see our screen, but not our team mates screen.  We see ourselves working hard constantly, but we don't see what our team mates are going through.  On our screen, it looks like we're in an intense firefight doing a lot whereas the team mates look like they're dancing around, firing at things, etc.  

 

The issue with "my team isn't helping me" is that in a disorganized team, nobody is helping each other.  Many of our team mates are probably blaming us too.  A lack of coordination happens on all levels:

 

Often times a player using a DPS/Flanker hero will flank and get two kills.  But they fail to realize their absence from  the fight caused their Rein/Orisa to lose the shield war, and their team will have already lost the fight before the flanker scores the kill.  Then the flanker is the last one to die, the spawn times vary, the flanker blames the team for not staying alive and everyone is trickled.

 

But beyond that, DPS players particularly get blamed for losses, when, just as often, it's a tanking problem and the DPS aren't getting clearance for aiming because the Rein/Winston blindly charged in, Zarya's bubble choices are suboptimal and the DVa is taking too long to dive an enemy. 

 

Supports are often blamed for not healing enough, but if they're being harassed by flankers, why aren't the Tanks and DPS taking them out?

 

I honestly don't believe people consider all of these factors.  Most people just assume "I'm working hard, I'm getting kills and I'm not winning - it's my team's fault" without asking why their kills aren't congealing into any real pushes.

While flexing should be incentivized by other means, SR is a poor way to do it.  Just because someone flexes doesn't mean they're a more skilled player.  Should an A+ Genji main and a B- Mercy flex both get the same SR when one plays a lot better than the other?  

 

I'd like to see Role Queue, but I don't think rewarding people for playing heroes they're not great at is a good idea because flexing is often not a service.  Whenever I hear a team mate say "I don't play tanks, but I'll flex for you guys", I commend their good intent, but I shudder in fear of a player misusing their hero at detriment to the team.

 

 

But this could be explained easier with sheer math.

 

DPS are 2/6 of an ideal comp.

DPS are 3/6 of an typical comp.

DPS are 3/6 of the hero pool.

 

There are more situational heroes than there are versatile heroes, and there are more situational hero mains than there are versatile hero mains.  It's not a total skew, but it's skewed to nearly exact degree that the problem exists.  A direct correlation.

 

That's cherrypicking one instance.  And again, you cherrypick the more flattering instance.  You don't use enemy team disorganization to discredit win rate - only your own team's.  The purpose of win rate is to get rid of the anecdotes and look at the overall view.  If 1/3 of your games are in your favor and 1/3 of your games are not in your favor, then the 1/3 of games, you should be able to swing if you're truly better than your current rank, right?

Also this is coming from someone who was stuck in basically every rank for about a season from silver to masters. The way I got out of each rank was by improving not blaming bad teammates. 

[Brooksie359]

On 5/22/2018 at 9:35 AM, minervx said:

Except, the matchmaking system punishes group queue with longer load times and opponents of higher rank when a similarly ranked group cannot be found.  Solo queue is just inherently more advantageous.  And this is true of all ranks.  Why would a Masters player want to do a 3 or 4 stack when they're just going to get paired up against GM solo queue players that are way better than them?

 

If you think I'm wrong: ask yourself this.  Do you ever often find yourself pressing the Stay As Team button after a game?  Most players don't, and this is not by chance.  It's because they know the matchmaker is going to put them in a worse position than if they were to just solo queue.

Unless you are the best players in the game. Then there is nobody higher to place you with. When high top 500 players que up with each other the only real answer is placing masters players on their team but when they 5 or 6 stack then it doesn't matter.

[Brooksie359]

On 5/23/2018 at 3:06 AM, Alex Colson said:

I Understand the higher your pool the more accurate the results become, What I'm saying is that the game purposely penalises Floaters because they technically don't have a main. So on what I call my Main characters Reinhardt & Lucio I will get average SR gain/Lose per game due to me being a floater they won't be recognised as mains due to the fact that I also float between other Healers, Tanks, DPS etc depending on the teams needs, So my mains only actually have like 3hrs+ on the rest of the floaters I would pick. If I pick the other floaters that are 3hrs behind my two mains the get penalised harshly because they won't be commonly picked.

 

So it agitates me when I play a floater preform above average for that character and we end up loosing due to reasons (Spanning from anything really) and I get punished by 100sr + drop. 

 

I have actually played a game as a floater in competitive and got a sr lose equivalent to me just leaving the match and not joining back which I would call BS.

 

In my personal opinion the SR system should be flipped Fixed gain/lose of 25SR till Diamond then gain/lose depending on your character play skill which won't be judged by time you played but judge by your regions average for said character. So people who main will still be able to get the SR the deserver if they play above average but it would also rewards floaters that play above average we decent SR gain/lose. 

 

Like my biggest annoyance is people saying this game isn't affected by your teammates when it is. The Game was Designed to be a TEAM Competitive game which is why teams that work together well end up winning. So ya 'It's my teamsfault we lost' is a shitty thing to say but in some occasion that can be true because of people trickling in or not combining Ults when they are able to. Players can solo team kill IF the Setup has been made, People can Push and capture points If the setup has been made, People can out play other Tanks IF the setup has been made. The game is based to purely be team work. 1 person can only do so much without aid from a teammate. 

If you aren't good at flexing then don't flex that would be my advice. I have hero's that I can go to for healer and tank if absolutely necessary as well as a variety of dps hero's that I am good at. This allows me to be comfortable and good at the heros I end up playing making my win percentage high around 60ish which results in climbing. It's statistics so if you are good enough and play enough you will win more than you lose and if you aren't then there are things you can improve on. A good rein player can carry a game with key shatters and blocking enemy damage and ults. If you make these key plays consistently then you will win more often than you will lose. You will still lose games but it's a numbers game. I have made the climb from silver to masters by improving my play and what I do. I made small improvements that led to where I am now. I have made the climb to high diamond multiple times on multiple accounts on heros I hadn't played previously. I know that the idea that you can be stuck by bad teammates is just bs and holds people back from actually improving and climbing. Also don't interplay what game sense can do for you. Game sense makes a huge difference and can hold you back more than mechanics often times. I don't claim to be good at overwatch because I really have alot I can do better at but I climbed because I was better than the people at those ranks. 

[minervx]

On 5/22/2018 at 2:06 PM, Alex Colson said:

Soo i really wanna know why people think if you are a good player you well be able to climb the ranks without worries.

Because good players do climb the ranks without worry.  The majority of players are worse than they think they are.  These good players should submit a video of them playing full match.  More likely than not, there are at least 20 mistakes they've made.

 

They think they're carrying because they're dealing a lot of damage, when they're really just feeding enemy support Ults.  They think they're contesting the point, when they're just staggering.  They focus on kills rather than creating space for team mates (because kills don't matter if you fail to create space for your team mates and they die before you can kill the enemies). 

 

On 5/22/2018 at 2:06 PM, Alex Colson said:

The Games competitive is purely done around your teamwork. Which is why you tend to get penalised no matter how well you play and lose. 

But in the larger picture, people with better team work will do better in the long run.  If you suck at playing, your team is more likely to get stomped and then be negative.  If you're a toxic player that gets tilted easily, you're more likely to spread negativity on other team mates and everyone gets staggered due to an individualistic playstyle.  Likewise, with good communication, you're more likely to get callouts, team mates to synergize, combo Ults properly.

 

Again, none of these things are 100% rules all of the time.  It's the law of larger numbers.  It may take 50 games for a person's positivity to be rewarded (not just 1 or 2), but the general trend is the general trend. 

[Pixel5]

to be honest  coming from Dota 2 Overwatch is obviously way less complex but adds the reactions needed in an FPS game.

 

what i absolutely hate is that they want to make this game seem to super casual, which is nice to get into it but i just miss important information.

 

i want to have detailed information about each individual skill and weapon, range, damage, fire rate accuracy.

For each skill i want the exact damage, effect duration or basically anything else.

 

i know the information is partially out there but this is something that needs to be standard in the game.

[Kukielka]

30 minutes ago, Pixel5 said:

to be honest  coming from Dota 2 Overwatch is obviously way less complex but adds the reactions needed in an FPS game.

 

what i absolutely hate is that they want to make this game seem to super casual, which is nice to get into it but i just miss important information.

 

i want to have detailed information about each individual skill and weapon, range, damage, fire rate accuracy.

For each skill i want the exact damage, effect duration or basically anything else.

 

i know the information is partially out there but this is something that needs to be standard in the game.

to be fair, people that want to get "that" in-depth with the game will inform themselves online, or go to the practice range and just try it out.

However, you don't need this information to climb the ladder at all, having a basic understanding of everyones skills + some decent game sense should be more than enough to reach master.

 

The fact that you don't have to invest huge chunks of time into the game, just to get the basic gist of it makes it more of a "party-game" and attracts a broader player base.

[InvertedEar]

As someone who's been GM (and maintained it) for 3 seasons (Season 5 to Season 8) and moved on to another game because of Blizzard's lack of desire to actually put in quality time to refine their report system (full automation by the looks of it, and if it was manned... its severely lacking in them, thus why false bans are a thing since it can't differentiate between a thrower/griefer/troll vs someone who's just stubborn and adamant) has just made me more upset over the quality of games (Like, its not satisfying to win because the enemy team has a thrower/griefer/troll that's doing it harder, or have one at all, and its no fun when my team has it), and it gets worse overtime (been playing since Season 1 Comp), in which sometimes they're the reason I accelerated back to GM again, and the only time the complexity and depth of the game can even be seen in decent effect is in OWL... but even then, the meta has always been so stale that it leaves out so many heroes in the game. Like, its been deathball vs deathball or dive vs dive. We could've had a rock paper scissor kind of composition in which deathball, dive, and even bunker can all try to counter each other.

 

But above all, I've never seen a game that's immensely troll/thrower/griefer friendly compared to even DotA2, LoL, CSGO, or Siege just by sheer function. Getting tagged or dying to the enemy team gives them ult-charge, playing Mei with the intent to troll the allied team, I can go on, but atleast DotA2 has Low Priority, LoL has (or probably still have it) Tribunal, CSGO has their "Overwatch" system, and Siege can straight up ban you for a week atleast, and they do it quick enough. Plus in terms of matchmaking, even on my Plat and Diamond smurfs, you can get repeatedly queue'd with the same trolls/throwers/griefers even after 5 minutes to a 24 hour break. Yes, I know, Blizzard has added the avoid as teammate feature back again, but limited to two... TWO... when it could use atleast ten.

If this game wants to be an esport, it better shift its favor to the ones who play to win, the pros, the competitive players, and start going hard on the competitive system. Heck, most pros in Siege, CSGO, and even DotA2 and LoL, have relatively normal or sometimes negative stats but play the game to an extent that they've mastered their roles well enough that they know there's more to kills and assists. In Overwatch... its literally just deathball vs deathball or dive vs dive and its a question of which team has better coordination and communication, lack of players going "off-script" like the likes of Miracle, Faker, or S1mple (I dont know any Siege pro, sorry), and everyone plays like bots and its a question of which one malfunctions less instead of which one outperforms who.

[Alysism]

I think that one of the biggest draws for me about Overwatch was the level of teamwork that needs to be employed in order to succeed. Every game of Call of Duty or TItanfall that I played almost just felt like a squad of lone-wolves competing for the higher kill-count (Don't get me wrong though, I LOVE Titanfall).

 

It brings me back to the hayday of Team Fortress 2 when I would clock something like 10 hours of Medic weekly, always finding new friends that I paired well with. It was a lot of fun, and Overwatch just seems like the natural evolution of that, but people aren't as used to to the co-operation needed.

 

Long-story-short, I agree. I watched a video by Extra Credits that mentioned what could be done for team-play by including a "Teamwork" or "Synergy" tutorial to teach players how to, you know, WORK AS A TEAM!

 

Here's the video if you're interested: LINK

[Giganthrax]

Overwatch is perfect in that it's easy to learn but insanely difficult to master. In addition to having most of the difficulty of a typical modern shooter, you also gotta learn teamwork if you want to compete at highest levels. Frankly, you'd have to be pretty dense (or salty) to say that Overwatch doesn't have depth and complexity. 

 

EDIT: In fact, this complexity is kinda its enemy. It's hard to watch for most people because it requires a ton of game knowledge to be able to follow a professional match. 

[minervx]

 

18 hours ago, Giganthrax said:

Overwatch is perfect in that it's easy to learn but insanely difficult to master. In addition to having most of the difficulty of a typical modern shooter, you also gotta learn teamwork if you want to compete at highest levels. Frankly, you'd have to be pretty dense (or salty) to say that Overwatch doesn't have depth and complexity. 

 

EDIT: In fact, this complexity is kinda its enemy. It's hard to watch for most people because it requires a ton of game knowledge to be able to follow a professional match. 

 

Yes, it's actually the combination of those two things that creates difficulty in understanding the game for many people.

 

Many people enter the game thinking it's a regular first person shooter and their goal is to get the most medals.  None of the in-game tutorials even talk about team fights, Ult economy or anything like that.