Overwatch's depth and complexity is underrated

[minervx]

Many people who aren't experienced with Overwatch, or don't pay attention much to the higher levels of play, tend to write it off as a low-skill game.  While, most apparently, it is focused on fast-paced action, the strategy comes in the many subtle little details that are hard to see up-front.  While mechanical skill is an important component, the vast majority of competitive players are extremely lacking in game-sense, positioning, meta understanding, Ult economy, consistency, emotional stability and various other aspects.  I see a lot of people who are used to deathmatch FPS games go on to play Overwatch and then blame their lack of a very high win rate for the game being stupid and random, when they're really making significant errors strategically.  The issue that players truly struggle with in competitive Overwatch is how subtle all of these little errors are to the point where it's easy to just blame blatantly bad instances (such as smurfs, leavers, etc.) for losses rather than actually try to examine the gameplay footage and see what went wrong.  Smurfs, leavers, throwers, trolls happen at various different ranks and on both teams.  Surely, people are less inclined to attribute their victories to randomness when the enemy team comp is bad.  Overall, win rate is what matters.  A player can blame luck for maybe 20-30% of their losses, but if a player isn't making any errors, they should truly be ranking up.

 

These are the factors that many people neglect:

• Are you dealing damage that kills enemies or just damage that enemy supports heal anyway?
• Are you helping your Rein/Orisa/Winston win the shield war?
• Are you punishing poorly positioned enemies and/or enemies with low health?
• When an enemy does kill you, do you look at their kill screen and report to your team mates their Ult percentage?
• Do you warn your team mates before you use your Ultimate?
• Are you using your Ultimate in a fight you can't win or one you've already won?
• If the enemy team has several heroes that are countering yours, do you switch to a hero that is more optimal for the matchup?
• Are you moving in an overly predictable manner (i.e. peeking against a Widow or Zenyatta repeatedly)?
• Do you have any out to Pharah and/or Flankers?
• Are you using the high ground effectively if the enemy mostly has short-range heroes?
• If the enemy runs a dive comp, do you try to protect your team mates on high ground?
• If you're using a hero with projectiles that don't have fall-off, do you stay far away?
• If you're using a hero with a wide spread hitscan attack, do you get close enough?
• When have each of the enemy team mates Ulted and which are due to Ult soon?
• If the enemy is running crowd control heroes, do you put some space between yourself and your team mates?
• Do you keep tabs on where all 6 enemies are positioned?
• If an enemy is not dead but still missing from the fight, are you anticipating their UIt?
• Do you prioritize killing supports and squishy DPS or do you just go for Tanks and shields because they're easy targets?
• If chasing an enemy takes too long and requires you to abandon your team for a significant amount of time, do you have the sense to walk away?
• When the enemy team captures the objective, do you escape and regroup your team,
• Do you use your Ults to aid in team fights or do you just use them to get kills or keep yourself alive?
• If you're playing Tank, are you staying by your team mates consistently to protect them?

 

[CyberFern0]

34 minutes ago, minervx said:

Many people who aren't experienced with Overwatch, or don't pay attention much to the higher levels of play, tend to write it off as a low-skill game.  While, most apparently, it is focused on fast-paced action, the strategy comes in the many subtle little details that are hard to see up-front.  While mechanical skill is an important component, the vast majority of competitive players are extremely lacking in game-sense, positioning, meta understanding, Ult economy, consistency, emotional stability and various other aspects.  I see a lot of people who are used to deathmatch FPS games go on to play Overwatch and then blame their lack of a very high win rate for the game being stupid and random, when they're really making significant errors strategically.  The issue that players truly struggle with in competitive Overwatch is how subtle all of these little errors are to the point where it's easy to just blame blatantly bad instances (such as smurfs, leavers, etc.) for losses rather than actually try to examine the gameplay footage and see what went wrong.  Smurfs, leavers, throwers, trolls happen at various different ranks and on both teams.  Surely, people are less inclined to attribute their victories to randomness when the enemy team comp is bad.  Overall, win rate is what matters.  A player can blame luck for maybe 20-30% of their losses, but if a player isn't making any errors, they should truly be ranking up.

 

These are the factors that many people neglect:

• Are you dealing damage that kills enemies or just damage that enemy supports heal anyway?
• Are you helping your Rein/Orisa/Winston win the shield war?
• Are you punishing poorly positioned enemies and/or enemies with low health?
• When an enemy does kill you, do you look at their kill screen and report to your team mates their Ult percentage?
• Do you warn your team mates before you use your Ultimate?
• Are you using your Ultimate in a fight you can't win or one you've already won?
• If the enemy team has several heroes that are countering yours, do you switch to a hero that is more optimal for the matchup?
• Are you moving in an overly predictable manner (i.e. peeking against a Widow or Zenyatta repeatedly)?
• Do you have any out to Pharah and/or Flankers?
• Are you using the high ground effectively if the enemy mostly has short-range heroes?
• If the enemy runs a dive comp, do you try to protect your team mates on high ground?
• If you're using a hero with projectiles that don't have fall-off, do you stay far away?
• If you're using a hero with a wide spread hitscan attack, do you get close enough?
• When have each of the enemy team mates Ulted and which are due to Ult soon?
• If the enemy is running crowd control heroes, do you put some space between yourself and your team mates?
• Do you keep tabs on where all 6 enemies are positioned?
• If an enemy is not dead but still missing from the fight, are you anticipating their UIt?
• Do you prioritize killing supports and squishy DPS or do you just go for Tanks and shields because they're easy targets?
• If chasing an enemy takes too long and requires you to abandon your team for a significant amount of time, do you have the sense to walk away?
• When the enemy team captures the objective, do you escape and regroup your team,
• Do you use your Ults to aid in team fights or do you just use them to get kills or keep yourself alive?
• If you're playing Tank, are you staying by your team mates consistently to protect them?

 

This is the main game I play. It is very underrated just because it’s old.

[minervx]

OW is 2 years old and has at least a 5-10 year lifespan ahead of it.

[Xander Cousins]

Yeah but As stated overwatch's issue is that it requires you to have a Full competent team to have a chance at winning, like literally if you have one slacker on your team that can affect you winning and losing, people can say that about other games but a lot of other games can still have another player pick up someone else slack or role all together. I have had to on many occasions be a mixed healer dps in overwatch meaning usually it would be Moira or Zen, which sacrifices survivability of the team as now healing would be reduced but then it comes around to the fact that if said person was a heavy dps role it become really hard to keep that.

 

I have had games being 4 v 5 and we have won due to pure teamwork but was a uphill battle and generally just luck we got stuff, them mis placing ult and wasting them etc. 

[minervx]

30 minutes ago, Alex Colson said:

Yeah but As stated overwatch's issue is that it requires you to have a Full competent team to have a chance at winning, like literally if you have one slacker on your team that can affect you winning and losing, people can say that about other games but a lot of other games can still have another player pick up someone else slack or role all together. I have had to on many occasions be a mixed healer dps in overwatch meaning usually it would be Moira or Zen, which sacrifices survivability of the team as now healing would be reduced but then it comes around to the fact that if said person was a heavy dps role it become really hard to keep that.

 

I have had games being 4 v 5 and we have won due to pure teamwork but was a uphill battle and generally just luck we got stuff, them mis placing ult and wasting them etc. 

Yes and no.  In the overall sense, there is no excuse for having a negative (below 50% win rate).  Because the enemy team (on average) has the same amount of slackers/throwers/smurfs/toxics/leavers/etc. as yours does.  People do neglect the times they've won purely because the enemy team was more bad than theirs.

 

There are two legitimate problems with the game though:

 

First, the matchmaking system is bad.  There is no form of role select.  Blizzard says the solution to the problem is that players should make friends and form groups, except there is absolutely no incentive to play as a group.  The waiting times are twice as long.  The matchmaking system handicaps groups (to make it more fair for solo queue players), but as a result groups either get worse team mates, better opponents, more SR when losing or less SR winning.  

 

Second, the hero pool has far more DPS heroes than supports and tanks, even though balanced team comps often use an even ratio of DPS, supports and tank.  Of course, the odds of having 3 DPS mains on a team are high.  They're half of the game.  The game needs at least 3 more Tank heroes and 2 more Support heroes.  

 

[Xander Cousins]

6 minutes ago, minervx said:

Because the enemy team (on average) has the same amount of slackers/throwers/smurfs/toxics/leavers/etc. as yours does.  People do neglect the times they've won purely because the enemy team was more bad than theirs.

So what I'm getting that within EVERY match the enemy team will have the same amount of slackers or throwers as your team has? Yet it doesn't seam like that. 

6 minutes ago, minervx said:

there is no excuse for having a negative (below 50% win rate).  

There ain't excuses they are reasons. I don't base my level of skill in overwatch on Win rate which should be the same for others as you could be the best player of said character but as long as your team doesn't aid in some form you aint gonna win. 

 

8 minutes ago, minervx said:

First, the matchmaking system is bad.

The matchmaking system is bad and backwards. Why is it that the SR you get is all skilled based until you get the Diamond where it is a static 25 up or 25 down on loss no matter what character you play as. So in that regard I agree with you but that should ultimately be flipped to be a static 25 up or down until Diamond where it then brings in your skill rating and all. 

 

Secondly on that topic you get punished for being a jack of all trades or a Floater to where you will fill the role that's needed. So lets say in my experience I play mainly Reinhardt, Roadhog, Lucio, Mercy and Soldier (Most played heros) I generally am the Tank or the Support for majority of my matches but sometimes I need to play a character we need but I don't have much experience or hrs with them, In one of my matches I had to swap to Zen (Hardly play him) to pick up DPS and allow for healing aswell (even if it was reduced) We won the match but because it was a character I haven't played often I only got 18 SR. A couple games later (No loses between these matches) I was playing my main which was Reinhardt won the match got a 35 SR payout because I main them. And to add to that I had a game where I needed to play D.Va  (Hardly used) lose the game but was on fire as D.va at the end and got potg yet I lost 40 SR because it was an uncommon character for me.

 

15 minutes ago, minervx said:

Second, the hero pool has far more DPS heroes than supports and tanks,

 

Secondly the hero pool isn't totally skewed towards DPS heroes it just everyone wants to play them due to FPS games as you stated. Like there is still a decent amount to pick from Tanks, Supports and Defence characters 

 

Basing someone's skill of the win ratio on a game like this would be very narrow minded as like I stated you could be a good player but aslong as the enemy team have a semi decent team build / coordination over your teams disorganisation you won't win that as Overwatch is DESIGNED to be team based and no Lone wolfs, hence why you have counters to each character and why you need teamwork to win majority of games.

 

 

I will agree with out on the statement below;

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 1:55 PM, minervx said:

game-sense, positioning, meta understanding, Ult economy, consistency, emotional stability and various other aspects

They do have key factors and all but not everyone can judge this, Majority of my competitive games are done in squads of 2, so we tend to know what we need to do, Usually we are Tank and Support or Support and DPs which turns out well a lot of the times as we can clear an opening and allow for a good ult to take place. But not everyone gets this and uses Ults when they see fit.

 

 

Anyway what I'm trying to explain is yes the game is underestimated as you explained but players reason for not liking the game is justified, which is why it had lead to a drop in community and overall longer search times due to this (on top of other reasons) But saying that having bad players,trolling n other things are not an excuse to having a below 50% win rate is pure BS as they are the sole reason some decent players have a <50% win rate, 

 

So for the sake of you knowing this ain't someone who is a silver complaining

https://www.overbuff.com/players/xbl/REG WARGAMER157

 

There is my overall stat page along with my Current Skill Rank (Due to being a floater this season rather than staying my characters) and you can see that I am an average player usually place in Gold, Platinum and nearly Diamond last season (Sooooooo Close *Sigh*)

 

but yeah I have a 50% win rate atm on this season and well its because I lost 5 of my placements and then a further 3 later on. (one which we had someone trolling)

 

 

 

[Supportsneedlove]

On 14/4/2018 at 3:30 PM, CyberFern0 said:

This is the main game I play. It is very underrated just because it’s old.

How is Overwatch old?

[mr cheese]

On 4/18/2018 at 7:36 AM, minervx said:

Blizzard says the solution to the problem is that players should make friends and form groups, except there is absolutely no incentive to play as a group.

Group play -> Bonus XP -> Level Up -> Loot Boxes -> Skins and Loot

Group play -> Higher Chances of Winning -> Bonus XP -> Level Up -> Loot Boxes -> Skins and Loot

Group play -> Higher Chances of Winning -> More SR (the whole idea in the first place)

Group play -> Higher Chances of Winning -> #feelsgoodman -> Better Team Spirit

 

"absolutely no incentives"?

There are obvious incentives, like winning, and in game loot incentives.

Unless you don't like winning.

[CyberFern0]

On 4/17/2018 at 12:30 AM, minervx said:

OW is 2 years old and has at least a 5-10 year lifespan ahead of it.

Yeah

[minervx]

19 minutes ago, DaJakerBoss said:

Group play -> Bonus XP -> Level Up -> Loot Boxes -> Skins and Loot

Group play -> Higher Chances of Winning -> Bonus XP -> Level Up -> Loot Boxes -> Skins and Loot

Group play -> Higher Chances of Winning -> More SR (the whole idea in the first place)

Group play -> Higher Chances of Winning -> #feelsgoodman -> Better Team Spirit

 

"absolutely no incentives"?

There are obvious incentives, like winning, and in game loot incentives.

Unless you don't like winning.

In quick play, you are right, there is an XP bonus, but in Competitive, group queue is an inherent disadvantage for most people. Your entire argument hinges on having a higher chance of winning and it's not that simple.  

 

To sum up previous points:

1) The matchmaker raises expectations you must meet in order to gain more SR / lose less SR

2) The matchmaker matches groups against solo queue opponents of higher rank.

3) The matchmaker adds players of lower rank on your team (or players who just got the game and are placing) as a handicap.

 

The issue with group queue is that the matchmaker treats all groups the same.  

 

Group A - Three Masters smurfs on Gold accounts.

Group B - Three friends who have been practicing and scrimming with each other for months.

Group C - Three people who met week ago in a Discord chat room and have only played a few games together.

Group D - Three randoms who played one game together and decided to "Stay as Team".

 

The problem is that Blizzard considers all four of these groups to be the exact same thing!

 

In this case, you either have to be a solid coordinated group, or your better off in solo queue.  There's no in-between.  I'm not saying highly coordinated teams should be punished or that solo queuers should have no protection whatsoever.  But right now the matchmaker has no way of matching similarly skilled groups against each other.  As a result, this just results in steamrolls.

 

It's a problem at all Ranks.  At lower ranks, there's enough chaos, randomness and disparity; more isn't needed.  But this is even a problem for friends of higher ranks.  Two GM and 1 Masters player group together; the matchmaker places them against Top 500 players.

 

 

[minervx]

On 4/18/2018 at 9:08 AM, Alex Colson said:

So what I'm getting that within EVERY match the enemy team will have the same amount of slackers or throwers as your team has? Yet it doesn't seam like that. 

Statistically yes.  Is there any objective reason why the game would send all the bad players to just your teams?  Almost every player in competitive has this complaint.  

 

It doesn't seem like that because our eyes don't see everything that's going on.

 

* At the start, you see your team's imbalanced comp, but not the enemy's.

* You don't see or hear the enemy's team chat, even though they're arguing too.

* An enemy sniper looks like a threat to your life, while your sniper looks like they're just standing there.  You don't see the space that your allied sniper is creating.

* You see the enemy Genji/Tracer that's harassing you, but the Genji/Tracer on your team that's harrassing the enemy is not in your field of view, so you don't see it.

 

On 4/18/2018 at 9:08 AM, Alex Colson said:

There ain't excuses they are reasons. I don't base my level of skill in overwatch on Win rate

But that's the only objective and scientific metric.  There are controls and variables.  The maps/comps/team mates/enemies change, but you are the only factor that is present in 100% of your games.  

 

If only 10-20 games were played and a low win rate is had, I would say, play more games.  But if someone played a lot of games and they have low win rate, it's them (not their team mates).  Central limit theorum, basically.

 

The issue with some of the other metrics is they are not precise.  

* Medals, for example, are worthless if they're not contributing to wins.  Doing a lot of damage means nothing if kills aren't being confirmed.  Confirming kills means nothing if those kills are being confirmed after a team fight has already been lost. 

* Anecdotes are subject to bias - not out of intent but just a limitation of being human.  We prefer to remember the times we carried but lost, but we don't put as much emphasis on when we're underperforming.

 

On 4/18/2018 at 9:08 AM, Alex Colson said:

but as long as your team doesn't aid in some form you aint gonna win. 

 

But are you sure its usually your team's fault?  Are you sure you're aiding your team well?  The issue is that we only see our screen, but not our team mates screen.  We see ourselves working hard constantly, but we don't see what our team mates are going through.  On our screen, it looks like we're in an intense firefight doing a lot whereas the team mates look like they're dancing around, firing at things, etc.  

 

The issue with "my team isn't helping me" is that in a disorganized team, nobody is helping each other.  Many of our team mates are probably blaming us too.  A lack of coordination happens on all levels:

 

Often times a player using a DPS/Flanker hero will flank and get two kills.  But they fail to realize their absence from  the fight caused their Rein/Orisa to lose the shield war, and their team will have already lost the fight before the flanker scores the kill.  Then the flanker is the last one to die, the spawn times vary, the flanker blames the team for not staying alive and everyone is trickled.

 

But beyond that, DPS players particularly get blamed for losses, when, just as often, it's a tanking problem and the DPS aren't getting clearance for aiming because the Rein/Winston blindly charged in, Zarya's bubble choices are suboptimal and the DVa is taking too long to dive an enemy. 

 

Supports are often blamed for not healing enough, but if they're being harassed by flankers, why aren't the Tanks and DPS taking them out?

 

I honestly don't believe people consider all of these factors.  Most people just assume "I'm working hard, I'm getting kills and I'm not winning - it's my team's fault" without asking why their kills aren't congealing into any real pushes.

On 4/18/2018 at 9:08 AM, Alex Colson said:

Secondly on that topic you get punished for being a jack of all trades or a Floater to where you will fill the role that's needed.

While flexing should be incentivized by other means, SR is a poor way to do it.  Just because someone flexes doesn't mean they're a more skilled player.  Should an A+ Genji main and a B- Mercy flex both get the same SR when one plays a lot better than the other?  

 

I'd like to see Role Queue, but I don't think rewarding people for playing heroes they're not great at is a good idea because flexing is often not a service.  Whenever I hear a team mate say "I don't play tanks, but I'll flex for you guys", I commend their good intent, but I shudder in fear of a player misusing their hero at detriment to the team.

 

On 4/18/2018 at 9:08 AM, Alex Colson said:

Secondly the hero pool isn't totally skewed towards DPS heroes it just everyone wants to play them due to FPS games as you stated. Like there is still a decent amount to pick from Tanks, Supports and Defence characters 

 

But this could be explained easier with sheer math.

 

DPS are 2/6 of an ideal comp.

DPS are 3/6 of an typical comp.

DPS are 3/6 of the hero pool.

 

There are more situational heroes than there are versatile heroes, and there are more situational hero mains than there are versatile hero mains.  It's not a total skew, but it's skewed to nearly exact degree that the problem exists.  A direct correlation.

 

On 4/18/2018 at 9:08 AM, Alex Colson said:

you could be a good player but aslong as the enemy team have a semi decent team build / coordination over your teams disorganisation you won't win that as Overwatch is DESIGNED to be team based

That's cherrypicking one instance.  And again, you cherrypick the more flattering instance.  You don't use enemy team disorganization to discredit win rate - only your own team's.  The purpose of win rate is to get rid of the anecdotes and look at the overall view.  If 1/3 of your games are in your favor and 1/3 of your games are not in your favor, then the 1/3 of games, you should be able to swing if you're truly better than your current rank, right?

[Xander Cousins]

@minervx (Post Being Restructured below)

[BigChinChinMan]

nerf pacman in the next update his down b is too good

[vdc]

nerf plants vs zombies

[BigChinChinMan]

this is my only pugb skin

[Xander Cousins]

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:24 AM, minervx said:

Statistically yes.  Is there any objective reason why the game would send all the bad players to just your teams?  Almost every player in competitive has this complaint.  

It doesn't seem like that because our eyes don't see everything that's going on.

As you just mentioned Statistically, meaning only really on paper is that correct. The game has no intention to put bad players into your team or another team as it is basing on your SR of said Season and the stats you get, this being gold medals, W/L ratios, K/D ratios etc on a number of characters. the game throws people together thinking each player will go the desired role it thought they would go to help the team comp. but doesn't work out like that which is where you get trollers, 1-Trick ponies and Throwers that don't care. 

 

Yes we may not see what goes on for the enemies team and that we cannot see what other teammates are doing. Being someone who plays a tank the biggest downside to me is I NEED to trust my teammates to output the damage that can take down their tank or take some players down. Along with that I cannot see what happens behind me so my defensive judgement is purely down to what's in front of me and what people communicate to me. Finally I ain't a player that jumps to oh my teams trash anytime I lose, I know other players will have their own issues to deal with, which is why I don't complain about healing until absolutely needed (I Need Healing) As I don't know about the other players conditions or the healers current situation being they are being targeted and trying to stay up or what etc. 

 

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:24 AM, minervx said:

But are you sure its usually your team's fault?  Are you sure you're aiding your team well?  The issue is that we only see our screen, but not our team mates screen.  We see ourselves working hard constantly, but we don't see what our team mates are going through.  On our screen, it looks like we're in an intense firefight doing a lot whereas the team mates look like they're dancing around, firing at things, etc.

 

This response you took in the wrong context, When I mentioned if your team doesn't aid in some form it means overall the WHOLE TEAM not just everyone but you. If I don't cooperate then it doesn't work if other players don't cooperate it won't work. I know people have own issues among the game when in a match like that one genji or pharah or sniper that is targeting them, I know this too well as when you a healer you are targeted a lot if you are the teams Key Damage dealer you are targeted if you are a threat to a counter you are targeted. So I ain't saying 'My team is Sh** loosely' when I do get to a point of frustration where that comes into play it generally is Valid. For example letting go an easy pick, Wasting an ult just to keep yourself alive when it could have been used more strategically, Not remaining behind your shield player while doing damage. All these are valid for said quote as why not use something you have and why not think before you ult. as you mentioned there is more to the game than just what is seen basically and I do know about it. As you have listed these underline skills required prior. 

 

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:24 AM, minervx said:

Whenever I hear a team mate say "I don't play tanks, but I'll flex for you guys", I commend their good intent, but I shudder in fear of a player misusing their hero at detriment to the team.

But then do you lose because of said person flexing or because no one else who does better thought of going tank and having said player take their role if they perform better. Flex players usually are better than 1-trick-ponies as they can play many characters and aren't useless when their counter comes into play as they can change around it if need be. Secondly the player is flexing because this is a higher chance of winning than him going hey I'm gonna play my main fuck being a tank that we really need. 

 

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:24 AM, minervx said:

The purpose of win rate is to get rid of the anecdotes and look at the overall view.  If 1/3 of your games are in your favor and 1/3 of your games are not in your favor, then the 1/3 of games, you should be able to swing if you're truly better than your current rank, right?

Yes this is true it is to show your overall view but again, Does a win rate reflect your skill as said role or the skill as working as a team. This comes back to my prior argument that a average team with Great teamwork and coordination will perform better than above average players with not coordination or teamwork. Why? because as mention the game is designed to be a TEAMPLAYER not a lone wolf so going on about hey I have a high W/L rate it comes down to you having actually good team mates that can support your and give advantage to you and your team when need be. If the W/L rate was based on player skill then it wouldn't be the way the game is today as you could have one player pick a character and beat a team which is impossible in this game without aid. 'Genji team wipes' , 'D.Va team wipes' etc isn't solo plays they are setups, Done by combining ults like Grave and Genji or D.Va , or Hammer Down with Genji or D.Va bomb. or other ults that work together Mei's Blizzard or Anna's damage boost on a player, Mercy's healing along with Mcree's Dead eye, Winstons Ape Rampage with D.va bomb or others. Like you can combo a good few of ults to get team wipes or you can just throw all your ults at a team and that usually works. 

 

In short the game is DESIGNED to be a team player, while your trying to imply it isn't with the stasis that your W/L purely depends on your game play. As you said about the 1/3 of even matches they can go both ways, It being your game play let the team down or vica versa, where a team mate didn't have great luck or didn't perform on par to their usual. Those matches are usually the best because you KNOW all your teammates are working together as hard as they can but just couldn't because of bad luck, mis placement etc. So again in those 1/3 of even matches it still relies on teammates AND yourself to play their A game. 

[Xander Cousins]

On ‎24‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 6:04 PM, dieegoperi said:

I just have one more thing to say:

FFS BLIZZARD NERF BRIGITTE OMG HOW THE HELL COULD SHE KILL EVERYONE IN A 3V1 OH BOY

Whip.... that is all

[minervx]

Reasons why Brigette is good for the meta

• She's a non-DPS hero, to help balance out the DPS-heavy hero roster.
• A hero for close-range melee players.
• A support hero to help Tank players transition over to the support role, in the same way that Zen can be a good transitional support for DPS players.
• In higher competitive ranks, Dive now has competition and may no longer be the overwhelmingly dominant comp.
• In lower competitive ranks, her Deathball-ish playstyle will incentivize less coordinated players to stick together more.
• She offers more flexibility with comps, so 222 may no longer be mandatory.  Triple support comps can still get a little tanking and triple tank comps can still get a little support.

Aspects of Brigette that are problematic

 

• Her stun, alongside her other attacks and team coordination can be oppressive.
• Her requirement of doing damage in order to get consistent healing means that her effectiveness could be polarized: (a) she's able to get in attacks, her team gets healed and they steamroll or (b) she had a difficult time approaching so the team is starving for heals.

[Exdominator]

 

On 4/18/2018 at 2:52 PM, Alex Colson said:

Yeah but As stated overwatch's issue is that it requires you to have a Full competent team to have a chance at winning, like literally if you have one slacker on your team that can affect you winning and losing, people can say that about other games but a lot of other games can still have another player pick up someone else slack or role all together. I have had to on many occasions be a mixed healer dps in overwatch meaning usually it would be Moira or Zen, which sacrifices survivability of the team as now healing would be reduced but then it comes around to the fact that if said person was a heavy dps role it become really hard to keep that.

 

I have had games being 4 v 5 and we have won due to pure teamwork but was a uphill battle and generally just luck we got stuff, them mis placing ult and wasting them etc. 

disclaimer: I have never played overwatch and i have only like 30-40 minutes on paladins (idk i dont like those games) but i have played enough league of legends to know what im talking about.

 

This whole "its my team that's keeping me back" or "i always get the trolls" are bullshit and let me explain why. Each team has the same number of players right? (not sure how many ill assume its 5). So each player you are playing with or against have the same chance to be a troll, so statistically you actually (assuming you arent a troll) have a better chance of winning since the enemy has 5 possible trolls while you only have 4. So stop blaming the team and get better.

[Kukielka]

To be fair, Overwatch is pretty shit when it comes to competetive.

It all comes down to picking the right heroes that fit the meta, you dont even need to play good.

Every game I play is a shitfest, and so that you dont think it's because of me SR: I'm high master.

[minervx]

45 minutes ago, Kukielka said:

To be fair, Overwatch is pretty shit when it comes to competetive.

It all comes down to picking the right heroes that fit the meta, you dont even need to play good.

Every game I play is a shitfest, and so that you dont think it's because of me SR: I'm high master.

I agree many games are poor quality.  I think this is because of a matchmaking system that makes solo queue more advantageous than forming groups, as well as a lack of proper in-game education/tutorials/actually useful tips for beginners (which results in them having to play for 50-100 hours just to learn many of the little basic things the hard way).

 

Your point is that OW is often played improperly, even by high level players.  Of course, that's unfortunate because OW has an incredible amount of depth and skill when it is actually played the correct way.  I made this thread not to justify the problems in competitive (there are many), but rather as an argument against many players who complain that their SR isn't going up due to things like Junkrat's tire or inferior team mates when really they themselves have big deficits which hinder their play.

 

Overwatch's potential skill cap is much higher than many players imagine.  The heroes only 4 abilities, so it seems simple.  However, multiply 27 * 4 * 27 * 4, and that's a very large number of potential synergies between allies combo'ing their abilities.  Now do the same for enemy hereos/abilities.  That's thousands of potential scenarios to consider and understand.  Many GM players aren't just naturally good; many spend hundreds (if not over a thousand) hours perfecting these things. 

 

Players now are a lot more knowledgeable than they were a year or two ago.  Back then, OW was played casually for fun.  Many players now have a glib understanding of synergy (i.e. 2-2-2 is good, hitscan against Pharah, team needs a mainheal and a maintank) without questioning the meta or gameplay much further.  However, a year ago most players didn't really even grasp these bits at all.

 

Right now the game is still young.  Mechanically skilled players (especially ones coming from other PC games such as CSGO) still need to learn game-sense.  Players who only recently got into PC gaming still need to practice mechanical aim.  However, eventually the bar will be raised.  Right now, a player with good aim alone can carry to Diamond without ever needing to use voice comms, flex when needed and learn about the meta in extreme depth.  But sooner or later, the game will get so competitive that every advantage will matter.

[NMS]

1 hour ago, Kukielka said:

high master

It's Grandmaster, which makes me think you are not one and that's why we can completely disregard your argument.

But perhaps you are, in which case I feel bad for you because when I play I get the most out of my teams by proper communication and team play.

[minervx]

3 minutes ago, NMS said:

It's Grandmaster, which makes me think you are not one and that's why we can completely disregard your argument.

But perhaps you are, in which case I feel bad for you because when I play I get the most out of my teams by proper communication and team play.

High Masters refers to the 3750-3999 SR range.  He's not claiming to be a GM.  In lower ranks, there's not as much distinction.  A low Silver player isn't that much worse than a high Silver.  But at the higher ranks, it does make a difference.  A high Masters player is significantly better at the game than a low Masters player.  Player skill doesn't just stay flat and automatically shoot up as soon as a 500 increment milestone is reached. 

[Kukielka]

13 minutes ago, NMS said:

It's Grandmaster, which makes me think you are not one and that's why we can completely disregard your argument.

But perhaps you are, in which case I feel bad for you because when I play I get the most out of my teams by proper communication and team play.

No, I'm in high master, 3,9k to be exact, which isn't grandmaster.

The problem is that beginning with master skill is not really represented in SR linearly like from bronze to diamond. Master to Grandmaster is a step equal to bronze to diamond. The terms low - high (Grand)-Master are fairly often used.

 

EDIT: I guess @minervx was faster than me.

 

Communication isn't really the problem to be fair, the only thing that has really changed from Plat to Master was that people are noticeably friendlier.

[NMS]

2 minutes ago, Kukielka said:

No, I'm in high master, 3,9k to be exact, which isn't grandmaster.

The problem is that beginning with master skill is not really represented in SR linearly like from bronze to diamond. Master to Grandmaster is a step equal to bronze to diamond. The terms low - high (Grand)-Master are fairly often used.

 

Communication isn't really the problem to be fair, the only thing that has really changed from Plat to Master was that people are noticibly friendlier.

Honestly, I feel like you need to play with friends and ONLY them. Sure, you need to find 5 that will match your skill level, but that will solve all your problems.