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AMD’s second-generation Ryzen processors are now available for preorder

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Please do not turn this thread into a fanboy AMD/Intel argument, or a debate about the legitimacy of NDAs.

22 minutes ago, The Viking said:

AMD already explained why, just stable power delivery & actually proper thermal sensors on the VRMs to avoid the whole temperature -20C issue we had on launch with the original ryzen last year. If you bought a proper board like the taichi x370 then this doesn't affect you. 

 

edit: i understand some people want to wait though, which isn't really a bad idea. Especially to find the best x470 boards and avoid the x370 board issue where some manufacturers had really bad boards with bad or no bios support/updates.

This time around they shouldn't have any motherboard issues like last time, its a pretty stable system all the bugs have been ironed out.  Similar architecture, nothing much to worry about.  But pre ordering without reviews, you just don't know what is going to be best for you as a consumer.  Your needs are going to tell ya what to look for. 

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3 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

That isn't anything new though, first gen Ryzen has already been winning in price/performance.

Right at this moment it's not. It's mildly tilted in Intel's favor. Course, given that I can't see 1st gen maintaining current prices once 2nd gen drops it should be back in AMD's favor. It will be... interesting to see if they drop a 2800X using the same dies as Threadripper 2 when it drops. That's really the only reason I can think of that they wouldn't just make the 2700X a 2800X instead.

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12 hours ago, MyName13 said:

So?If it's better than r5 1600 (or at least as good) without overclocking (and can be used with cheaper boards) then there's no purpose of OCing.

But you damn well know Ryzen is cheaper across the board. And if it’s as good as the Ryzen then the Ryzen can become better due to overclocking.

 

unlike shitty Intel at least overclocking isn’t held back due to different chipsets 

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14 minutes ago, TechGod said:

But you damn well know Ryzen is cheaper across the board. And if it’s as good as the Ryzen then the Ryzen can become better due to overclocking.

 

unlike shitty Intel at least overclocking isn’t held back due to different chipsets 

You do realize that AMD limits overclocking to certain chipsets too, right? For example, you can't overclock on A320 or A300.

 

Also, even if you can overclock on some boards, you probably shouldn't, because a lot of the cheaper boards have bad VRMs. It was sadly not uncommon back in the AM3 days that AMD boards died because people tried to overclock on cheap boards. It became such a big issue that this thread was made.

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I wonder if the first generation Ryzen processors will drop in price once these new ones are available for purchase?

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1 minute ago, dave4shmups said:

I wonder if the first generation Ryzen processors will drop in price once these new ones are available for purchase?

EOL so yeah probably will drop in price or sales, rebates what not, just to clear out inventory.

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25 minutes ago, TechGod said:

But you damn well know Ryzen is cheaper across the board. And if it’s as good as the Ryzen then the Ryzen can become better due to overclocking.

 

unlike shitty Intel at least overclocking isn’t held back due to different chipsets 

It wasn't cheaper across the board on release, only when the 8000 series was released and there were no cheaper boards available.   I always wanted a Ryzen system but on release it had $50-100 premium over the 7700K and I didn't want to buy 7000 series at the end of their cycle.   Hence I am still waiting to upgrade,  how the pricing between Ryzen2 and the 8000 series pans out with the cheaper Intel boards means I now have much better options.

 

Also overclocking for performance is still very specific to each chip and end use, depending on what you do you could overclock a ryzen and still have it not perform as well as an equivalent Intel system.    At the moment there is just no way to make general claims about one being better than the other.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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2 minutes ago, dave4shmups said:

I wonder if the first generation Ryzen processors will drop in price once these new ones are available for purchase?

they are 20-30 cheaper here than the pre-order price.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Once all 1st gen prices go down after Zen+ release I'm going for 1st gen just to get on the upgrade path while a modern CPU is cheap. A320 mobo (made the mistake of not checking chipset) but that too can be upgraded when I upgrade again. Zen 1 should be good on stock speeds for a long time anyway.

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8 hours ago, johnukguy said:

^ This. It's beyond irritating when tech tubers all bow down to a company and go by embargos, ultimately just in order to get free stuff and to be approved by those companies. Their first 'duty,' if they consider themselves to be in any way serious as journalists, is to the viewers, to their audience and users of the products, not to any corporation. Any tech tuber who does this has lost credibility for me.

And by entering that agreement with product vendors they are putting consumers first. They get the products early so they can conduct the testing before the release of the product and then can give this information as early as possible. Without this agreement reviews would not be available for a minimum of 2 days after release.

 

By giving this information before release and before the agreed time that would give their competition an advantage that they could exploit to lessen the impact of the product release, also bad for consumers.

 

Any reviewer that breaks an NDA intentionally should immediately resign from doing reviews and find something else to do. Be a very rare case where breaking NDA is acceptable.

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5 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

 Adobe still works, it just works best on Macs (lol), then Intel then AMD. 

Adobe has went down the hole.

DaVinci resolve for most editing is my go to for editing. Unless I need speical effects brought in. looks like they just added most of that in with 15

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1 minute ago, GDRRiley said:

Adobe has went down the hole.

DaVinci resolve for most editing is my go to for editing. Unless I need speical effects brought in. looks like they just added most of that in with 15

Adobe became garbage after CS6 imo.

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.

Current Rig (Dominator II): 8GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3133 C15, AMD Ryzen 3 1200 at 4GHz, Coolermaster MasterLiquid Lite 120, ASRock B450M Pro4, AMD R9 280X, 120GB TCSunBow SSD, 3TB Seagate ST3000DM001-9YN166 HSD, Corsair CX750M Grey Label, Windows 10 Pro, 2x CoolerMaster MasterFan Pro 120, Thermaltake Versa H18 Tempered Glass.

 

Previous Rig (Black Magic): 8GB DDR3 1600, AMD FX6300 OC'd to 4.5GHz, Zalman CNPS5X Performa, Asus M5A78L-M PLUS /USB3, GTX 950 SC (former, it blew my PCIe lane so now on mobo graphics which is Radeon HD 3000 Series), 1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 7200RPM HDD, 3TB Seagate ST3000DM001-9YN166 HDD (secondary), Corsair CX750M, Windows 8.1 Pro, 2x 120mm Red LED fans, Deepcool SMARTER case

 

My secondary rig (The Oldie): 4GB DDR2 800, Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 3GHz, Stock Dell Cooler, Foxconn 0RY007, AMD Radeon HD 5450, 250GB Samsung Spinpoint 7200RPM HDD, Antec HCG 400M 400W Semi Modular PSU, Windows 8.1 Pro, 80mm Cooler Master fan, Dell Inspiron 530 Case modded for better cable management. UPDATE: SPECS UPGRADED DUE TO CASEMOD, 8GB DDR2 800, AMD Phenom X4 9650, Zalman CNPS5X Performa, Biostar GF8200C M2+, AMD Radeon HD 7450 GDDR5 edition, Samsung Spinpoint 250GB 7200RPM HDD, Antec HCG 400M 400W Semi Modular PSU, Windows 8.1 Pro, 80mm Cooler Master fan, Dell Inspiron 530 Case modded for better cable management and support for non Dell boards.

 

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16 minutes ago, xriqn said:

Adobe became garbage after CS6 imo.

They just haven't changed that much since CS6 lol,  

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12 minutes ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

Too lazy to read, guessing it's already been asked but is this 14nm still or are they already down to 12nm?
 

 

12nm is 14nm, its not really a size difference in transistor sizes.

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1 hour ago, leadeater said:

And by entering that agreement with product vendors they are putting consumers first. They get the products early so they can conduct the testing before the release of the product and then can give this information as early as possible. Without this agreement reviews would not be available for a minimum of 2 days after release.

Saving two days isn't 'putting consumers first.' It's putting making money from content and the wishes of corporations first. It makes absolutely zero real world difference if a review is two days earlier than others. Especially as anyone with any sense is going to wait a while anyway and see what the situation is like for example when BIOS revisions have been bought out and the new CPU's are more settled. 

 

Quote

By giving this information before release and before the agreed time that would give their competition an advantage that they could exploit to lessen the impact of the product release, also bad for consumers.

Again, two days makes zero real world difference. And, again, reviews have already been published of the new Ryzen CPU's, so where is this benefit to Intel exactly? There is none. Intel have nothing new to counter the new CPU's available within the next few days, and that hasn't changed because someone had the sense to get hold of one of the new CPU's, test it and release what they've found.

 

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Any reviewer that breaks an NDA intentionally should immediately resign from doing reviews and find something else to do. Be a very rare case where breaking NDA is acceptable.

Here I absolutely agree but would also point out that nobody with integrity, who claims in any way to be a journalist, should be agreeing to any NDA's in the first place. And let's face facts, this isn't done to benefit the consumer, that's already been dealt with, nor does it hand any real advantage over to the competition, especially when the new CPU's are already available for sale in various places straight off the shelves of retailers. It's not like Intel are going to somehow ignore the fact that they too can get hold of these CU's before the official release date and find out everything that they need to know. In reality then it's purely about getting a few more bucks for also ran, mediocre content and keeping corporations happy. And that particular combination always ends up being bad for consumers and bad for journalism, without exception.

Now of course, the reality is, and I would grant you this without hesitation, that most tech tubers are not journalists, nor do they claim to be, nor would they be able to be, given their willingness to bend over for various corporations and that, in it's own way is fine. I have no problem with that, as I don't give such tech tubers any real credibility to begin with. My issue then is entirely with those who do claim to be journalists, do talk about being on the side of the consumer and yet still agree to NDA's.

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1 hour ago, johnukguy said:

Saving two days isn't 'putting consumers first.' It's putting making money from content and the wishes of corporations first. It makes absolutely zero real world difference if a review is two days earlier than others. Especially as anyone with any sense is going to wait a while anyway and see what the situation is like for example when BIOS revisions have been bought out and the new CPU's are more settled.

 

Again, two days makes zero real world difference. And, again, reviews have already been published of the new Ryzen CPU's, so where is this benefit to Intel exactly? There is none. Intel have nothing new to counter the new CPU's available within the next few days, and that hasn't changed because someone had the sense to get hold of one of the new CPU's, test it and release what they've found.

Not true, in the age of streaming video two days can mean quite a bit in terms of revenue. If anything, GN's experience shows that they should keep the review embargoes(Unboxing embargoes still being moronic obviously) but double to triple the amount of time that the reviewers have the hardware to review, at least in the case of the CPU.

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1 minute ago, ravenshrike said:

Not true, in the age of streaming video two days can mean quite a bit in terms of revenue. If anything, GN's experience shows that they should keep the review embargoes(Unboxing embargoes still being moronic obviously) but double to triple the amount of time that the reviewers have the hardware to review, at least in the case of the CPU.

You made my point. Thanks for that. :) It's about revenue for the tech tubers, not benefiting consumers at all and I could care less that some mediocre tech tuber makes a few bucks less. So what? Two days makes zero difference to most of us as consumers and has zero impact on sales of the CPUs, unless of course they turn out to be extremely disappointing, in which case the company deserves what it gets.

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1 minute ago, johnukguy said:

Saving two days isn't 'putting consumers first.' It's putting making money from content and the wishes of corporations first. It makes absolutely zero real world difference if a review is two days earlier than others. Especially as anyone with any sense is going to wait a while anyway and see what the situation is like for example when BIOS revisions have been bought out and the new CPU's are more settled. 

You think a rushed review is going to be the same quality and accuracy as one conducted over a week or more. If you do you don't expect much from reviews.

 

2 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

And, again, reviews have already been published of the new Ryzen CPU's

No only leaks/rumors have, leak != review.

 

3 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

Again, two days makes zero real world difference. And, again, reviews have already been published of the new Ryzen CPU's, so where is this benefit to Intel exactly? There is none. Intel have nothing new to counter the new CPU's available within the next few days, and that hasn't changed because someone had the sense to get hold of one of the new CPU's, test it and release what they've found.

No it would make a big difference. Advanced warning of actual product performance and pricing allows a competitor to time a counter offer, either price drops rebates or some kind of package deal that is only temporary. All you need to do is stop the launch momentum and the effects will last forever.

 

6 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

And let's face facts, this isn't done to benefit the consumer, that's already been dealt with, nor does it hand any real advantage over to the competition, especially when the new CPU's are already available for sale in various places straight off the shelves of retailers

Pre-order only, you cannot buy any Ryzen 2 processors.

 

9 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

Now of course, the reality is, and I would grant you this without hesitation, that most tech tubers are not journalists, nor do they claim to be, nor would they be able to be, given their willingness to bend over for various corporations and that, in it's own way is fine. I have no problem with that, as I don't give such tech tubers any real credibility to begin with. My issue then is entirely with those who do claim to be journalists, do talk about being on the side of the consumer and yet still agree to NDA's.

Absolutely no, most of them do claim to be journalists and FYI traditional journalists also sign NDAs. Without NDAs you think we'd get the same quality of information about upcoming products? You think anyone would have the required information to even give anything informative to consumers at all? What's new in this architecture? What's changed since the last?

 

To cut it short because I could keep listing things that wouldn't happen without NDAs you have a far too simplistic view of NDAs and you would very much be less informed without them.

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17 minutes ago, johnukguy said:

Saving two days isn't 'putting consumers first.' It's putting making money from content and the wishes of corporations first. It makes absolutely zero real world difference if a review is two days earlier than others. Especially as anyone with any sense is going to wait a while anyway and see what the situation is like for example when BIOS revisions have been bought out and the new CPU's are more settled. 

 

Again, two days makes zero real world difference. And, again, reviews have already been published of the new Ryzen CPU's, so where is this benefit to Intel exactly? There is none. Intel have nothing new to counter the new CPU's available within the next few days, and that hasn't changed because someone had the sense to get hold of one of the new CPU's, test it and release what they've found.

 

Here I absolutely agree but would also point out that nobody with integrity, who claims in any way to be a journalist, should be agreeing to any NDA's in the first place. And let's face facts, this isn't done to benefit the consumer, that's already been dealt with, nor does it hand any real advantage over to the competition, especially when the new CPU's are already available for sale in various places straight off the shelves of retailers. It's not like Intel are going to somehow ignore the fact that they too can get hold of these CU's before the official release date and find out everything that they need to know. In reality then it's purely about getting a few more bucks for also ran, mediocre content and keeping corporations happy. And that particular combination always ends up being bad for consumers and bad for journalism, without exception.

Now of course, the reality is, and I would grant you this without hesitation, that most tech tubers are not journalists, nor do they claim to be, nor would they be able to be, given their willingness to bend over for various corporations and that, in it's own way is fine. I have no problem with that, as I don't give such tech tubers any real credibility to begin with. My issue then is entirely with those who do claim to be journalists, do talk about being on the side of the consumer and yet still agree to NDA's.

 

 

NDA's are in place so its a fair field for the press and market competition, and all the information comes out at once, bad and good.  That why the bad press won't be as bad, just in case.

 

NDA's gives rights to both sides of the party they are not one sided.  A tech reviewer or you tube reviewer, or journalist what ever name you want to call them by, are making money off of these companies.  There hits and advertisements get them money.  The other side is its free press for the companies.  Equal sided effect.

 

Now if one has one great product and knows they won't get any bad reviews, why not stagier their NDA to different reviewers?  Well down side is the impact of one reviewer vs 100 reviewers is going to make a difference, and its also unfair to the "select few" reviewers who get to the reviews afterwards.

 

Usually companies give a good amount of time for reviewers prior to an NDA expiring.  Sometimes not enough time, have seen it happen both ways.  Most reviewers try to do their due diligence.  All reviewers have different methodolgies and many of them don't follow the given guidelines by these companies either otherwise reading multi reviews would be pointless.  The NDA is not for that, there is no contracts for review guidelines anyways, at least not that I know of.  NDA's for reviewers really only tell reviewers they can only release information at a certain time.  They aren't about anything else.

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5 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

The NDA is not for that, there is no contracts for review guidelines anyways, at least not that I know of.

NDA = Non Disclosure Agreement

 

Maybe people don't realize that's what it standards for? The preparation material and review guidelines are not contractual requirements of the NDA, all those are is "Hey don't release this information before X".

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13 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

NDA's are in place so its a fair field for the press, and all the information comes out at once, bad and good.  That why the bad press won't be as bad, just in case.

 

No they're not. Have you ever seen one? They have nothing to do with a fair field for the press. AMD, Intel and any other company couldn't give a rat's arse about whether the press have a fair field. 

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NDA's gives rights to both sides of the party they are not one sided.  A tech reviewer or you tube reviewer, or journalist what ever name you want to call them by, are making money off of these companies.  There hits and advertisements get them money.  The other side is its free press for the companies.  Equal sided effect.

First off, as someone who has worked as a journalist, I can tell you that no, we don't make money off these companies. That would be corrupt and in fact illegal in many countries. Secondly, again no, the NDA gives no real rights to any other party than the company concerned, in exchange for free stuff. That's it. But do feel free to produce an NDA from Nvidia, Intel or AMD that gives anyone any rights other than them. You can do that right? 
 

Quote

Well down side is the impact of one reviewer vs 100 reviewers is going to make a difference, and its also unfair to the "select few" reviewers who get to the reviews afterwards.

Much of this doesn't make sense but, from what it seems you are trying to say, reviews have already been published of the new Ryzen CPU's, so do tell exactly what great difference it has made to those who will be reviewing on the nineteenth of April?
 

Quote

 A tech reviewer or you tube reviewer, or journalist what ever name you want to call them by, are making money off of these companies.  There hits and advertisements get them money.  The other side is its free press for the companies.  Equal sided effect.

Now here you are absolutely correct. It is indeed an arrangement that is in place to get good press for the company (though not always in reality it turns out) and to make a few extra bucks for the tech tuber. Which is exactly what I said it is about. Thanks for helping to make my case for me.  I can't wait though to see an example of an NDA from Intel or AMD that gives rights to anyone besides them though, as you claim. I'm quite excited to see that as I have never seen one (and I've seen several) that does that. :)

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6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

NDA = Non Disclosure Agreement

 

Maybe people don't realize that's what it standards for? The preparation material and review guidelines are not contractual requirements of the NDA, all those are is "Hey don't release this information before X".

Exactly this. Companies have no business telling reviewers how to review their products and, if they do so, then that's not a review, it's a commercial. It seems that some don't quite seem to understand what an NDA actually is.

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1 hour ago, johnukguy said:

You made my point. Thanks for that. :) It's about revenue for the tech tubers, not benefiting consumers at all and I could care less that some mediocre tech tuber makes a few bucks less. So what? Two days makes zero difference to most of us as consumers and has zero impact on sales of the CPUs, unless of course they turn out to be extremely disappointing, in which case the company deserves what it gets.

Except if there's no embargo it's a race to the finish, which means that as an assessment of a product it will be a hell of a lot less reliable and completely blot the SnR.

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