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xriqn

AMD’s second-generation Ryzen processors are now available for preorder

Crunchy Dragon

Please do not turn this thread into a fanboy AMD/Intel argument, or a debate about the legitimacy of NDAs.

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On 4/13/2018 at 8:05 PM, xriqn said:

I'm glad that they're not announcing all the details just yet, I always love a surprise on release and I'm sure all those of you reading do too. Now obviously, there's going to be four second generation chips, those will be as follows (taken from The Verge):

I could not disagree more. The last thing I want when ordering an expensive computer part is "be surprised" by how it works or performs.

I strongly believe that customers should know what they are buying, and starting preorders now and not allowing reviewers to post benchmarks until the chips are in customers' hands goes strictly against that.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:14 PM, xriqn said:

By the time Vishera came round most of the issues were fixed. Glad I'm on a Vishera FX 6300.

No they weren't Vishera was shit too. It was just minor refinements to Bulldozer. Like polishing a turd. Intel still had something absurd like a 40% IPC lead even with Vishera.

 

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:30 PM, xriqn said:

The 8100's TDP was actually lower than the 3960X, its extreme edition competitor.

You're comparing two completely different categories of products. Might as well say the i3 draws less power than Threadripper. That comparison makes about as much sense.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:33 PM, xriqn said:

Why is nobody else hyped about Ryzen 2? It's gonna be brilliant!

Because it's mostly just a slight frequency bump over Ryzen 1. They have made some minor tweaks here and there but it's nothing major.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:37 PM, xriqn said:

Price decrease is still good and sometimes clock speeds aren't everything, there's tons of optimizations to the architecture that will have been done.

What optimizations are you talking about? From what I know, these are just minor tweaks. Are you getting Ryzen 2 confused with Zen 2?

Ryzen = Zen (original Zen architecture)

Ryzen 2 = Zen+ (die shrink from 14nm to 12nm, with some minor tweaks, mostly higher stock frequencies)

Ryzen ? = Zen2 (7nm lithography, large architecture changes, hardware mitigation for Spectre)

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:41 PM, The Viking said:

RIP intel optane, you never deserved to exist, you never deserved to have a reason to exist, and now your existance is even more useless than it was until last week, especially at the price you charged your crap.

Are you talking about the Optane cache Intel released, or 3D XPoint as a whole?

If it's the former I agree, but if it's the latter then you are very, very wrong.

 

I am pretty sure StoreMI is more like Intel SRT.

 

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:50 PM, xriqn said:

Intel was NEVER for the budget builders or people who wanted bang for buck anyway. AMD was performance and bang for buck for those who can't afford stupid prices.

For a long time, Intel had far better price:performance than AMD had, especially for things like games. The i3 was beating AMD's highest end offerings with ease.

I mean, check this out. These chips cost the same for quite some time. i3 6100 and FX-8350. The i3 was usually cheaper by about 10 pounds or so.

And yes, there were some edge cases where the FX won. It won when it could use all 8 cores efficiently, which was not very often. The i3 had almost double the single threaded performance. Just look at the Octane scores. 88% higher performance with the i3.

The Pentium G4560 was a fantastic budget chip too. Or as DigitalFoundry put it "Holy crap, this thing is stupidly fast for a budget processor".

 

It is a bad idea to generalize two brands like you're doing. Just because a product is from AMD doesn't mean it is good value, nor does a product from Intel necessairly have bad value or a "stupid price". It entirely depends on which product you look at and in what context.

 

 

On 4/13/2018 at 9:02 PM, xriqn said:

They've released quite enough information in my opinion. No need for them to start handing out benchmarks before release. Do you see that with a new prebuilt device? Very rarely, so why do it to an individual part? Incase you haven't noticed, they gave clock speeds and cores in this article, which I would deem those to be an ESSENTIAL part in choosing a CPU. Benchmarks only account for one specific CPU out of the millions that are produced, how do we know that those stats are the same for all the other million CPU's of the same line out there?

That is completely the wrong way of thinking.

Benchmarks are very important. Far more important than just knowing the core count or frequency (see: the i3 vs 8350 benchmarks I posted above for an example).

Also, performance is consistent between the same CPU models, even across the millions of chips produced. Why? Because the architecture is the same. One Ryzen 1700 does not have a higher IPC than another 1700, because they are the same architecture. Where they might differ is the overclocking range. Because of leakage one might run slightly hotter, or require more power than another one, but those are usually minor differences and they do not affect stock results. The CPUs are binned so that they all can manage the stock frequencies.

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Preordered a 2600x for my brother's new computer =) His current machine is sporting an Fx8150 8 core Zambezi processor in a Gigabyte 990fxa ud7 motherboard, and a GTX 780. God bless him, he is worried that the Ryzen 2600x may not be much of an upgrade xD and was content with a GTX 1060


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Why are we pre-ordering CPU's without knowing how they perform? Is EA in charge of AMD now?


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35 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Are you talking about the Optane cache Intel released, or 3D XPoint as a whole?

If it's the former I agree, but if it's the latter then you are very, very wrong.

the cache one. Not the SSD. The one available in 16/32gb modules.

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7 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Why are we pre-ordering CPU's without knowing how they perform? Is EA in charge of AMD now?

in my brother's case anything including a potato is better than what he has right now xD 


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10 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Why are we pre-ordering CPU's without knowing how they perform? Is EA in charge of AMD now?

but we know how they perform. It's literally a shrink from 14nm to 12nm, 5% higher clockspeed, 10 extra Whatts and same socket. There's no risk at all. Contrarely to an EA game. If AMD screws this up then they better close shop.

 

edit: oh and probably to make sure to get one on launch and not have to wait for 2/4 weeks for a new batch.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
30 minutes ago, RyzenDoctor said:

Preordered a 2600x for my brother's new computer =) His current machine is sporting an Fx8150 8 core Zambezi processor in a Gigabyte 990fxa ud7 motherboard, and a GTX 780. God bless him, he is worried that the Ryzen 2600x may not be much of an upgrade xD and was content with a GTX 1060

Nice. I'm on a fx 6300 based system and I wouldn't call it a potato just yet. It's still got a couple years left before I'll turn it to a linux machine or something.


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41 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Why are we pre-ordering CPU's without knowing how they perform? Is EA in charge of AMD now?

Assuming the bits worked around in GN's memory scaling video are taken at face value, a decent uptick in performance on the chips albeit nothing earth shattering, but memory compatibility in terms of performance between different sticks is still an issue, although clocking the memory higher no longer is.

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1 hour ago, RyzenDoctor said:

Preordered a 2600x for my brother's new computer =) His current machine is sporting an Fx8150 8 core Zambezi processor in a Gigabyte 990fxa ud7 motherboard, and a GTX 780. God bless him, he is worried that the Ryzen 2600x may not be much of an upgrade xD and was content with a GTX 1060

LOL. He is in for a pleasant surprise...

 

On the GPU front the gtx 1060 actually shouldn't be that much faster than a gtx 780 but the driver support is much better.

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1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

Why are we pre-ordering CPU's without knowing how they perform? Is EA in charge of AMD now?

Given that people pre-ordered Ryzen 1000 series, with very few clues of where it could land (I mean, people pre-ordered, and continued to order at launch, the 1800X at its $500 price... speaking of "hype tax"). In comparison, it makes all the sense to pre-order the 2000 series, where the only uncertainty is whether it is a a tiny bit better or a little bit better than the 1000 series. The worst that can happen is that you get a slightly OC'ed 1000 series at MSRP (instead the price the 1000s are going for today).

 

Still, personally, I don't pre-order, I don't pre-release, I don't early access, I don't alpha/beta/gamma/omicron. First you launch. Then time passes. Then I care :P 

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4 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

For the retail 2700X, I imagine 4.2 Ghz will be the standard All-Core. The dies will hit 4.35 Ghz on XFR, so they're rated for that, but that's the limits on the node. (1800X does 4.1 on Turbo but 4.0 is almost always the All-Core max.) We're going to see 4.4 & 4.5 chips though, while the best binned will end up in the Threadripper 2 SKUs. Some of those will hit 4.6-4.7. 

 

Though I'm pretty sure that 4.3 is pushing close to the limits for what Ryzen allows for in current games. There's an extremely small uplift for going from 4.5 to 5.0 Ghz on Intel for gaming right now. Even if you put Ryzen under phase-change to get it stable around 4.8-5.0 Ghz, I expect you'd see very, very small uplift in gaming performance. Most of the issues have been about game engines operating on symmetric core-to-core latency, plus thrashing system memory quite a lot. It's not an accident that Tomb Raider saw upwards of 20% uplift from tweaks to the scheduling (which also helped with the Intel HEDT parts as well). 

 

As for Icelake, the 8 core part is, by rumor, supposed to be in 2nd half of 2018. Floating around name is Coffee Lake-R. Icelake, which is 2019, we don't know yet. Given the nature of the Core Architecture, I still don't think an 8 core part makes sense on the Mainstream platform, unless AMD really is bringing a 12c or 16c SKU to the mainstream. (Intel would know this.) Then there's the issue that, even with the way things are going in gaming, 8c/16t is going to be overkill. It's going to be a long time (or Ubisoft codes like crap) before more than 12 threads is really that valuable, especially as you'll normally need to give up clocks for it.

It felt like most chips that were destined for Threadripper literally got binned out of the Ryzen line up, as we saw Threadrippers getting far more consistent 4.1 gh overclocks for instance, and nearly no Ryzen's were capable of that with 24/7 stability.

 

And I don't know how true that is, I maxed my voltage on my 1800x and still peaked at 4.275, I would literally need to start pushing like 1.6v or something to see higher then that

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15 minutes ago, Neokolzia said:

It felt like most chips that were destined for Threadripper literally got binned out of the Ryzen line up, as we saw Threadrippers getting far more consistent 4.1 gh overclocks for instance, and nearly no Ryzen's were capable of that with 24/7 stability.

 

And I don't know how true that is, I maxed my voltage on my 1800x and still peaked at 4.275, I would literally need to start pushing like 1.6v or something to see higher then that

Some of that high frequency stability could also be due to the socket and more pins used for power delivery and grounding, same reason Intel had to introduce Z370. Stable voltage is very important, that's why pushing higher doesn't always get you the result you'd expect, sometimes you have to very slightly lower it and adjust other things.

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2 hours ago, RyzenDoctor said:

Preordered a 2600x for my brother's new computer =) His current machine is sporting an Fx8150 8 core Zambezi processor in a Gigabyte 990fxa ud7 motherboard, and a GTX 780. God bless him, he is worried that the Ryzen 2600x may not be much of an upgrade xD and was content with a GTX 1060

I mean the 8150 gets about 800cb OC'd on cinebench whereas in my experience with a 1600 at 4ghz i got 1300 so unless upgrading to a ryzen 7 I don't think it would be worth it. Also, I love the way the 990fx Gigabyte boards look. Used to have a UD5 with a FX 6300 at 4.8ghz.


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5 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

before more than 12 threads is really that valuable, especially as you'll normally need to give up clocks for it.

Give up clocks? During haswell the 5820k's and 4770/90k's were getting about the same clocks.


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Ryzen 7 1700 3.9ghz @1.33125v Cinebench Scores Best:1750cb Average: 1735cb

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Corsair RM850

Enthoo Pro M Acrylic Changing to a Inwin 301 soon

Custom CPU Loop (watercooling is boring to me right now so I want to go back to air cooling and do like one more WC Loop in a Inwin 301)

Intel 256gb SSD

Kingston 240gb SSD

HyperX 90gb SSD

Not So Shitbox v3 Specs:

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MSI P67-GD55  Sold to fund my gpu

Gigabyte Windforce HD 6950

Team Elite Plus 8gb DDR3 (1 stick) @ 1600mhz

Thermaltake Toughpower 750 watt

Cooler Master T4

Enthoo Luxe 

Kingston 120gb SSD

WD Black 1tb HDD

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1tb hard drive

GTX 960m

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I’m going to wait for sales and for motherboards to support the new CPU without needing a BIOS flash. They look nice though.


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3 minutes ago, This kid builds pc said:

Give up clocks? During haswell the 5820k's and 4770/90k's were getting about the same clocks.

Except Ryzen clocks worse than Broadwell. Leaks peg Ryzen 2K procs at overclocking very similarly to Broadwell. You're giving up clock speed to an extent.

 

Oh, and the 5820K overclocks similarly to the 4770K. 4.5GHz or so.

The 5930K and 4790K both clock closer to 4.8GHz.


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2 minutes ago, Hiitchy said:

I’m going to wait for sales and for motherboards to support the new CPU without needing a BIOS flash. They look nice though.

The X470s are coming out the day before the processors drop. Course the cheapest board is going for $140. Does anyone know if they're doing a B450 chipset at all? I could only find some stuff from January that doesn't' look to have been confirmed at all beyond that.

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On 4/13/2018 at 12:05 PM, xriqn said:

Well, the news is out my friends. Ryzen 2 is on, and it's now available for pre order, how exciting!!! According to The Verge

I'm glad that they're not announcing all the details just yet, I always love a surprise on release and I'm sure all those of you reading do too. Now obviously, there's going to be four second generation chips, those will be as follows (taken from The Verge):

Great to see that the coolers are on AMD this year across ALL AMD Ryzen CPU's, I'm sure it was a bugger for those of you out there who didn't want to buy a new cooler just for socket AM4 unless you bought one of their higher end solutions. You'll also be unsurprised to know that 

Now the new X470 chipset, that is VERY interesting to me. Could that be a new enthusiast chipset to overthrow the current enthusiast chipset, X370? I daresay it is and I do think that it would pair beautifully with AMD's new StoreMI feature as now, hybrids are no more when you buy AMD systems. You can have your speed and capacity together, have all that cake at once, your boot drive is now one with your storage once more! Now what do you all think to this exciting information and are you hyped for Ryzen 2? Let me know down in the comments below!

 

Oh right, yeah, the source is here: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/4/13/17233630/amds-second-generation-ryzen-processors-available-preorder

Good stuff, cant wait to see the benchmarks and prices compared to older gen stuff in Ryzen family. I will have to keep up to date on that stuff, building pc's and all for 5 years now. Its a side business, cash only!

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On 13/4/2018 at 5:48 PM, xriqn said:

This is the minor upgrade, it's going to be like Nehlahem to Sandy Bridge when Zen2 comes out.

Nehalem to Sandy Bridge was a huge pgrade, you mean something like Haswell to Broadwell, or Piledriver/Steamroller to Excavator

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3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

 

Quote


No they weren't Vishera was shit too. It was just minor refinements to Bulldozer. Like polishing a turd. Intel still had something absurd like a 40% IPC lead even with Vishera.

 

 Vishera isnt the name of the Architecture. Vishera is the name of the product family. The microarchitecture is Steamroller/Piledriver if I remember correctly. Later they would be polished and made into Excavator and then Excavator v2 iin a 28nm Processs instead of 32nm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ravenshrike said:

The X470s are coming out the day before the processors drop. Course the cheapest board is going for $140. Does anyone know if they're doing a B450 chipset at all? I could only find some stuff from January that doesn't' look to have been confirmed at all beyond that.

B450s are supposedly coming, but not on launch day. It may be a few weeks before theyre released. X470s should be available launch day, albeit the cheapest is $140


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1 hour ago, DanielMDA said:

Nehalem to Sandy Bridge was a huge pgrade, you mean something like Haswell to Broadwell, or Piledriver/Steamroller to Excavator

This is Zen+. He's talking about the stuff coming out early(hopefully) next year. Architecturally the shift between Zen and Zen 2 should be similar to that between Nehalem and Sandy Bridge as SB was a refined execution of the Nehalem concept. Whether it will see the same amount of upswing remains to be seen of course. A 12% IPC gain over Zen would outside of AVX workloads actually put AMD back on top clock for clock.

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3 hours ago, Neokolzia said:

It felt like most chips that were destined for Threadripper literally got binned out of the Ryzen line up, as we saw Threadrippers getting far more consistent 4.1 gh overclocks for instance, and nearly no Ryzen's were capable of that with 24/7 stability.

 

And I don't know how true that is, I maxed my voltage on my 1800x and still peaked at 4.275, I would literally need to start pushing like 1.6v or something to see higher then that

AMD's guy that manages their binning procedures said they took the top 2% of dies for use in Threadripper. That's why there are 8c/16t hitting 4.3 Ghz around.

2 hours ago, This kid builds pc said:

Give up clocks? During haswell the 5820k's and 4770/90k's were getting about the same clocks.

For the TDP & motherboards of Mainstream designs, you would expect to give up some Clocks when on the same Node for an 8 core Coffee Lake part. There's not going to be any efficiency gained, so it's a Clock for Clock 33% more power & heat going from 6c to 8c. That's why a new chipset would be needed for the design specs to be met. 

2 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

The X470s are coming out the day before the processors drop. Course the cheapest board is going for $140. Does anyone know if they're doing a B450 chipset at all? I could only find some stuff from January that doesn't' look to have been confirmed at all beyond that.

I've heard Q3 for the B-series boards, but no confirmation.

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50 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

For the TDP & motherboards of Mainstream designs, you would expect to give up some Clocks when on the same Node for an 8 core Coffee Lake part. There's not going to be any efficiency gained, so it's a Clock for Clock 33% more power & heat going from 6c to 8c. That's why a new chipset would be needed for the design specs to be met. 

It was already a thing for 7700k vs 8700k, lower base clock (4.2 vs 3.7) and slightly higher TDP (91 vs 95). Going from 6 to 8 will be the same thing, sacrifices will have to be made or a steep increase in TDP.

 

Even a node shrink won't cancel it out, TDP went up from 22nm to 14nm not down. If you push for performance gains in power efficiency are just used to increase performance.

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