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AMD’s second-generation Ryzen processors are now available for preorder

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Please do not turn this thread into a fanboy AMD/Intel argument, or a debate about the legitimacy of NDAs.

6 minutes ago, xriqn said:

I wonder if a Zen+ Threadripper will appear, that will be interesting.

yes, we know there's a refresh for threadripper.

 

originally that's what I wanted to get, threadripper refresh in august to replace my 1800x, but i'm finding it hard to justify the 16 cores...

 

edit: well i guess minewseeper needs the 32 threads

 

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1 hour ago, Dylanc1500 said:

On topic: I'm interested to see if they have plans to add AVX-512 with ZEN+.

No chance. This is a minor revision. Not much will change. Zen doesn't even have proper support for AVX2.

I'm only expecting full AVX2 to come with Zen2. I'm not sure if AVX-512 is on the table at all and if it is, it's probably Zen3 or beyond. Perhaps (if possible) they'll support AVX-512 later when they've added full AVX2 support and use the same technique to get rudimentary support for the former but it'll have the same steep penalties.

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7 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

No chance. This is a minor revision. Not much will change. Zen doesn't even have proper support for AVX2.

I'm only expecting full AVX2 to come with Zen2. I'm not sure if AVX-512 is on the table at all and if it is, it's probably Zen3 or beyond. Perhaps (if possible) they'll support AVX-512 later when they've added full AVX2 support and use the same technique to get rudimentary support for the former but it'll have the same steep penalties.

This is the minor upgrade, it's going to be like Nehlahem to Sandy Bridge when Zen2 comes out.

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.

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The preorder part is confusing since I haven't seen any threads about formal reviews or benchmarks. 

 

I will laugh when the 4.3 Ghz XFR translates to max OC = 4.35Ghz.

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1 minute ago, AnonymousGuy said:

The preorder part is confusing since I haven't seen any threads about formal reviews or benchmarks. 

 

I will laugh when the 4.3 Ghz XFR translates to max OC = 4.35Ghz.

It's weird but if that's how AMD want to play it, let them go ahead and do it.

There are 10 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.

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4 hours ago, MyName13 said:

Dude what?i5 8400 is cheaper and performs better (or at least the same).You don't even need to overclock it.

The 8400 currently about the same price as the 1600, and almost certainly won't be in a week's time since it makes no sense to still be selling the 1600x at $200 bucks when the 2600x will be $230 and unlike the 1600x come with its own cooler. That means bumping them down a bit, and I would assume the 1600 would drop to at least 160ish, possibly lower.

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I'm interested to see the development however still feel burned by the 1800x that I have.

 

There was so little point of the 1800x's existance it wasn't really binned in any special way besides being able to turbo 1-2 cores to 4.1  Which speaks nothing for its ability to hit 4ghz as we learned with 1700 and 1700x

 

So even with 4.3 boost I don't expect these things to get over 4.1-4.2 average which will be great but I'm keen on finding out the performance difference clock for clock between them.  

 

I could OC my 1800x to 4.275ghz btw but it wasn't stable under certain loads.   And had to settle to 3.975, as 4.0 also wasn't stable under encoding loads.

But I could benchmark  4.275ghz without issue.

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I wish they had of chosen a different name for ryzen.  Every time I read ryzen 2 I think nah,  that shit ain't out till the end of the year. :S

 

It seems there is going to be a 10-15% price increase over the last gen so I really hope this is reflected in the performance.

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I wish they had of chosen a different name for ryzen.  Every time I read ryzen 2 I think nah,  that shit ain't out till the end of the year. :S

 

It seems there is going to be a 10-15% price increase over the last gen so I really hope this is reflected in the performance.

 

that would depend on which version you look at or when, there was alot of price trimming/adjusting with the Ryzen line up post launch

 

*cough* paid 499$ USD for a 1800x like a moron

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10 minutes ago, Neokolzia said:

that would depend on which version you look at or when, there was alot of price trimming/adjusting with the Ryzen line up post launch

 

*cough* paid 499$ USD for a 1800x like a moron

That's the actually difference in cost between them right now in a few shops around here.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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52 minutes ago, Urishima said:

 

I find this article super weird it isn't nearly informative enough about why Geil memory is underperforming nor offers enough information to feel conclusive.

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2 hours ago, Neokolzia said:

that would depend on which version you look at or when, there was alot of price trimming/adjusting with the Ryzen line up post launch

 

*cough* paid 499$ USD for a 1800x like a moron

If you paid that before X299 came out, then you weren't a moron. 8 cores was $699 USD when Ryzen 7 1800X launched. The fact that Intel rushed to rapidly lower the "Cost per Core" because of the Ryzen 7 series doesn't change the value calculation at the time of purchase. Now, if you paid that much after October 2017, you just didn't search for a proper deal.

12 hours ago, Trixanity said:

No chance. This is a minor revision. Not much will change. Zen doesn't even have proper support for AVX2.

I'm only expecting full AVX2 to come with Zen2. I'm not sure if AVX-512 is on the table at all and if it is, it's probably Zen3 or beyond. Perhaps (if possible) they'll support AVX-512 later when they've added full AVX2 support and use the same technique to get rudimentary support for the former but it'll have the same steep penalties.

AVX512 is supported but would run at half-speed. Zen has two units for 128-bit geometry (AVX) which combine to handle 256-bit (AVX2). Everyone expects further AVX2 units in the first major design revision, which is next year. Though, sort of hilariously, on Epyc in 8 channel memory setup, the CPUs actually perform pretty well under AVX512 because of just how much bandwidth the operations take up.

 

AVX512 is going to be wonky and there's little reason for AMD to focus on it. Intel is mostly building out a code base for it, as it's one of those "in the future!" tech things that'll matter in a decade. Much better AVX2 support should also close most of the IPC gap that still exists between Intel & AMD, though Intel will still have their memory & I/O advantages. Along with all of the code optimization. (Which might actually be the most important part.)

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9 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

Yeah that's was the argument by the guy who made that mockup without a PCH. I mean I don't mind not having SATA and some USB ports (especially when we're nose deep in this SFF ITX customs monstrosity from the toe up), but kinda not sure if there'd be many slightly more conventional people looking to SFF that's willing to not have them o_o

The CPU includes 4 USB 3.0 ports, and a few things for SATA anyway :P

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Prices are nice, also great that cooler are bundled with all of them as well. 

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9 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

If you paid that before X299 came out, then you weren't a moron. 8 cores was $699 USD when Ryzen 7 1800X launched. The fact that Intel rushed to rapidly lower the "Cost per Core" because of the Ryzen 7 series doesn't change the value calculation at the time of purchase. Now, if you paid that much after October 2017, you just didn't search for a proper deal.

AVX512 is supported but would run at half-speed. Zen has two units for 128-bit geometry (AVX) which combine to handle 256-bit (AVX2). Everyone expects further AVX2 units in the first major design revision, which is next year. Though, sort of hilariously, on Epyc in 8 channel memory setup, the CPUs actually perform pretty well under AVX512 because of just how much bandwidth the operations take up.

 

AVX512 is going to be wonky and there's little reason for AMD to focus on it. Intel is mostly building out a code base for it, as it's one of those "in the future!" tech things that'll matter in a decade. Much better AVX2 support should also close most of the IPC gap that still exists between Intel & AMD, though Intel will still have their memory & I/O advantages. Along with all of the code optimization. (Which might actually be the most important part.)

ya it was when ryzen launched back then ya there wasn't much info.  We figured the 1800x with it being high leakage design would perform better on average, and going intel side there wasn't much option, could go for a 6900k or whatever the 8 core intel was but would wrek your wallet and honestly even that wouldn't be that much better for gaming today.

 

Intel still isn't offering compelling solutions since the High end desktop is 1-2 generations behind now,  And if you want more then 6 cores you'll need to go that way.

 

Though I heard a rumor that Ice Lake in 2019 will be 8 core on mainstream

 

_____

 

The "leaked" reviews coming out right now are seemingly very biased where cherrypicking few games in 4k and just odd things where the 2700x just barely edges out a 8700k, but at that one of the pressing issues is the fact that the overclocking headroom on a 8700k vs a 2700x is huge.

 

From my readings 4.3 is absolute max but likely unstable for a stable overclock, and 4.2 will be the new 4.0 that some people can reach.  Where as a 8700k can far exceed its turbo frequency in the 5.2's

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2 hours ago, Neokolzia said:

ya it was when ryzen launched back then ya there wasn't much info.  We figured the 1800x with it being high leakage design would perform better on average, and going intel side there wasn't much option, could go for a 6900k or whatever the 8 core intel was but would wrek your wallet and honestly even that wouldn't be that much better for gaming today.

 

Intel still isn't offering compelling solutions since the High end desktop is 1-2 generations behind now,  And if you want more then 6 cores you'll need to go that way.

 

Though I heard a rumor that Ice Lake in 2019 will be 8 core on mainstream

 

_____

 

The "leaked" reviews coming out right now are seemingly very biased where cherrypicking few games in 4k and just odd things where the 2700x just barely edges out a 8700k, but at that one of the pressing issues is the fact that the overclocking headroom on a 8700k vs a 2700x is huge.

 

From my readings 4.3 is absolute max but likely unstable for a stable overclock, and 4.2 will be the new 4.0 that some people can reach.  Where as a 8700k can far exceed its turbo frequency in the 5.2's

For the retail 2700X, I imagine 4.2 Ghz will be the standard All-Core. The dies will hit 4.35 Ghz on XFR, so they're rated for that, but that's the limits on the node. (1800X does 4.1 on Turbo but 4.0 is almost always the All-Core max.) We're going to see 4.4 & 4.5 chips though, while the best binned will end up in the Threadripper 2 SKUs. Some of those will hit 4.6-4.7. 

 

Though I'm pretty sure that 4.3 is pushing close to the limits for what Ryzen allows for in current games. There's an extremely small uplift for going from 4.5 to 5.0 Ghz on Intel for gaming right now. Even if you put Ryzen under phase-change to get it stable around 4.8-5.0 Ghz, I expect you'd see very, very small uplift in gaming performance. Most of the issues have been about game engines operating on symmetric core-to-core latency, plus thrashing system memory quite a lot. It's not an accident that Tomb Raider saw upwards of 20% uplift from tweaks to the scheduling (which also helped with the Intel HEDT parts as well). 

 

As for Icelake, the 8 core part is, by rumor, supposed to be in 2nd half of 2018. Floating around name is Coffee Lake-R. Icelake, which is 2019, we don't know yet. Given the nature of the Core Architecture, I still don't think an 8 core part makes sense on the Mainstream platform, unless AMD really is bringing a 12c or 16c SKU to the mainstream. (Intel would know this.) Then there's the issue that, even with the way things are going in gaming, 8c/16t is going to be overkill. It's going to be a long time (or Ubisoft codes like crap) before more than 12 threads is really that valuable, especially as you'll normally need to give up clocks for it.

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On 4/13/2018 at 8:05 PM, xriqn said:

I'm glad that they're not announcing all the details just yet, I always love a surprise on release and I'm sure all those of you reading do too. Now obviously, there's going to be four second generation chips, those will be as follows (taken from The Verge):

I could not disagree more. The last thing I want when ordering an expensive computer part is "be surprised" by how it works or performs.

I strongly believe that customers should know what they are buying, and starting preorders now and not allowing reviewers to post benchmarks until the chips are in customers' hands goes strictly against that.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:14 PM, xriqn said:

By the time Vishera came round most of the issues were fixed. Glad I'm on a Vishera FX 6300.

No they weren't Vishera was shit too. It was just minor refinements to Bulldozer. Like polishing a turd. Intel still had something absurd like a 40% IPC lead even with Vishera.

 

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:30 PM, xriqn said:

The 8100's TDP was actually lower than the 3960X, its extreme edition competitor.

You're comparing two completely different categories of products. Might as well say the i3 draws less power than Threadripper. That comparison makes about as much sense.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:33 PM, xriqn said:

Why is nobody else hyped about Ryzen 2? It's gonna be brilliant!

Because it's mostly just a slight frequency bump over Ryzen 1. They have made some minor tweaks here and there but it's nothing major.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:37 PM, xriqn said:

Price decrease is still good and sometimes clock speeds aren't everything, there's tons of optimizations to the architecture that will have been done.

What optimizations are you talking about? From what I know, these are just minor tweaks. Are you getting Ryzen 2 confused with Zen 2?

Ryzen = Zen (original Zen architecture)

Ryzen 2 = Zen+ (die shrink from 14nm to 12nm, with some minor tweaks, mostly higher stock frequencies)

Ryzen ? = Zen2 (7nm lithography, large architecture changes, hardware mitigation for Spectre)

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:41 PM, The Viking said:

RIP intel optane, you never deserved to exist, you never deserved to have a reason to exist, and now your existance is even more useless than it was until last week, especially at the price you charged your crap.

Are you talking about the Optane cache Intel released, or 3D XPoint as a whole?

If it's the former I agree, but if it's the latter then you are very, very wrong.

 

I am pretty sure StoreMI is more like Intel SRT.

 

 

On 4/13/2018 at 8:50 PM, xriqn said:

Intel was NEVER for the budget builders or people who wanted bang for buck anyway. AMD was performance and bang for buck for those who can't afford stupid prices.

For a long time, Intel had far better price:performance than AMD had, especially for things like games. The i3 was beating AMD's highest end offerings with ease.

I mean, check this out. These chips cost the same for quite some time. i3 6100 and FX-8350. The i3 was usually cheaper by about 10 pounds or so.

And yes, there were some edge cases where the FX won. It won when it could use all 8 cores efficiently, which was not very often. The i3 had almost double the single threaded performance. Just look at the Octane scores. 88% higher performance with the i3.

The Pentium G4560 was a fantastic budget chip too. Or as DigitalFoundry put it "Holy crap, this thing is stupidly fast for a budget processor".

 

It is a bad idea to generalize two brands like you're doing. Just because a product is from AMD doesn't mean it is good value, nor does a product from Intel necessairly have bad value or a "stupid price". It entirely depends on which product you look at and in what context.

 

 

On 4/13/2018 at 9:02 PM, xriqn said:

They've released quite enough information in my opinion. No need for them to start handing out benchmarks before release. Do you see that with a new prebuilt device? Very rarely, so why do it to an individual part? Incase you haven't noticed, they gave clock speeds and cores in this article, which I would deem those to be an ESSENTIAL part in choosing a CPU. Benchmarks only account for one specific CPU out of the millions that are produced, how do we know that those stats are the same for all the other million CPU's of the same line out there?

That is completely the wrong way of thinking.

Benchmarks are very important. Far more important than just knowing the core count or frequency (see: the i3 vs 8350 benchmarks I posted above for an example).

Also, performance is consistent between the same CPU models, even across the millions of chips produced. Why? Because the architecture is the same. One Ryzen 1700 does not have a higher IPC than another 1700, because they are the same architecture. Where they might differ is the overclocking range. Because of leakage one might run slightly hotter, or require more power than another one, but those are usually minor differences and they do not affect stock results. The CPUs are binned so that they all can manage the stock frequencies.

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Preordered a 2600x for my brother's new computer =) His current machine is sporting an Fx8150 8 core Zambezi processor in a Gigabyte 990fxa ud7 motherboard, and a GTX 780. God bless him, he is worried that the Ryzen 2600x may not be much of an upgrade xD and was content with a GTX 1060

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Why are we pre-ordering CPU's without knowing how they perform? Is EA in charge of AMD now?

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35 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Are you talking about the Optane cache Intel released, or 3D XPoint as a whole?

If it's the former I agree, but if it's the latter then you are very, very wrong.

the cache one. Not the SSD. The one available in 16/32gb modules.

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7 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Why are we pre-ordering CPU's without knowing how they perform? Is EA in charge of AMD now?

in my brother's case anything including a potato is better than what he has right now xD 

AMD Ryzen 3950x under a Noctua D15S, 32 Gb G Skill FlareX 3200 DDR4 running at 3200 CL14, Gigabyte Aorus Pro 570 Wifi, Gigabyte 2070 Super hooked to a Dell U2718Q 4k HDR monitor & an Acer 1440p 144hz IPS panel of some kind, an Inland 1 TB M.2 PCIE 4 main drive, a Samsung NVME M.2 250Gb, WD Blue 500Gb  and 1 TB SSDs, Corsair RMX750, Rainbows and butterflies...

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10 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Why are we pre-ordering CPU's without knowing how they perform? Is EA in charge of AMD now?

but we know how they perform. It's literally a shrink from 14nm to 12nm, 5% higher clockspeed, 10 extra Whatts and same socket. There's no risk at all. Contrarely to an EA game. If AMD screws this up then they better close shop.

 

edit: oh and probably to make sure to get one on launch and not have to wait for 2/4 weeks for a new batch.

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