AMD’s second-generation Ryzen processors are now available for preorder

[xriqn]

30 minutes ago, RyzenDoctor said:

Preordered a 2600x for my brother's new computer =) His current machine is sporting an Fx8150 8 core Zambezi processor in a Gigabyte 990fxa ud7 motherboard, and a GTX 780. God bless him, he is worried that the Ryzen 2600x may not be much of an upgrade  and was content with a GTX 1060

Nice. I'm on a fx 6300 based system and I wouldn't call it a potato just yet. It's still got a couple years left before I'll turn it to a linux machine or something.

[ravenshrike]

41 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Why are we pre-ordering CPU's without knowing how they perform? Is EA in charge of AMD now?

Assuming the bits worked around in GN's memory scaling video are taken at face value, a decent uptick in performance on the chips albeit nothing earth shattering, but memory compatibility in terms of performance between different sticks is still an issue, although clocking the memory higher no longer is.

[Humbug]

1 hour ago, RyzenDoctor said:

Preordered a 2600x for my brother's new computer =) His current machine is sporting an Fx8150 8 core Zambezi processor in a Gigabyte 990fxa ud7 motherboard, and a GTX 780. God bless him, he is worried that the Ryzen 2600x may not be much of an upgrade  and was content with a GTX 1060

LOL. He is in for a pleasant surprise...

 

On the GPU front the gtx 1060 actually shouldn't be that much faster than a gtx 780 but the driver support is much better.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

Why are we pre-ordering CPU's without knowing how they perform? Is EA in charge of AMD now?

Given that people pre-ordered Ryzen 1000 series, with very few clues of where it could land (I mean, people pre-ordered, and continued to order at launch, the 1800X at its $500 price... speaking of "hype tax"). In comparison, it makes all the sense to pre-order the 2000 series, where the only uncertainty is whether it is a a tiny bit better or a little bit better than the 1000 series. The worst that can happen is that you get a slightly OC'ed 1000 series at MSRP (instead the price the 1000s are going for today).

 

Still, personally, I don't pre-order, I don't pre-release, I don't early access, I don't alpha/beta/gamma/omicron. First you launch. Then time passes. Then I care  

[Neokolzia]

4 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

For the retail 2700X, I imagine 4.2 Ghz will be the standard All-Core. The dies will hit 4.35 Ghz on XFR, so they're rated for that, but that's the limits on the node. (1800X does 4.1 on Turbo but 4.0 is almost always the All-Core max.) We're going to see 4.4 & 4.5 chips though, while the best binned will end up in the Threadripper 2 SKUs. Some of those will hit 4.6-4.7. 

 

Though I'm pretty sure that 4.3 is pushing close to the limits for what Ryzen allows for in current games. There's an extremely small uplift for going from 4.5 to 5.0 Ghz on Intel for gaming right now. Even if you put Ryzen under phase-change to get it stable around 4.8-5.0 Ghz, I expect you'd see very, very small uplift in gaming performance. Most of the issues have been about game engines operating on symmetric core-to-core latency, plus thrashing system memory quite a lot. It's not an accident that Tomb Raider saw upwards of 20% uplift from tweaks to the scheduling (which also helped with the Intel HEDT parts as well). 

 

As for Icelake, the 8 core part is, by rumor, supposed to be in 2nd half of 2018. Floating around name is Coffee Lake-R. Icelake, which is 2019, we don't know yet. Given the nature of the Core Architecture, I still don't think an 8 core part makes sense on the Mainstream platform, unless AMD really is bringing a 12c or 16c SKU to the mainstream. (Intel would know this.) Then there's the issue that, even with the way things are going in gaming, 8c/16t is going to be overkill. It's going to be a long time (or Ubisoft codes like crap) before more than 12 threads is really that valuable, especially as you'll normally need to give up clocks for it.

It felt like most chips that were destined for Threadripper literally got binned out of the Ryzen line up, as we saw Threadrippers getting far more consistent 4.1 gh overclocks for instance, and nearly no Ryzen's were capable of that with 24/7 stability.

 

And I don't know how true that is, I maxed my voltage on my 1800x and still peaked at 4.275, I would literally need to start pushing like 1.6v or something to see higher then that

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, Neokolzia said:

It felt like most chips that were destined for Threadripper literally got binned out of the Ryzen line up, as we saw Threadrippers getting far more consistent 4.1 gh overclocks for instance, and nearly no Ryzen's were capable of that with 24/7 stability.

 

And I don't know how true that is, I maxed my voltage on my 1800x and still peaked at 4.275, I would literally need to start pushing like 1.6v or something to see higher then that

Some of that high frequency stability could also be due to the socket and more pins used for power delivery and grounding, same reason Intel had to introduce Z370. Stable voltage is very important, that's why pushing higher doesn't always get you the result you'd expect, sometimes you have to very slightly lower it and adjust other things.

[This kid builds pc]

2 hours ago, RyzenDoctor said:

Preordered a 2600x for my brother's new computer =) His current machine is sporting an Fx8150 8 core Zambezi processor in a Gigabyte 990fxa ud7 motherboard, and a GTX 780. God bless him, he is worried that the Ryzen 2600x may not be much of an upgrade  and was content with a GTX 1060

I mean the 8150 gets about 800cb OC'd on cinebench whereas in my experience with a 1600 at 4ghz i got 1300 so unless upgrading to a ryzen 7 I don't think it would be worth it. Also, I love the way the 990fx Gigabyte boards look. Used to have a UD5 with a FX 6300 at 4.8ghz.

[This kid builds pc]

5 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

before more than 12 threads is really that valuable, especially as you'll normally need to give up clocks for it.

Give up clocks? During haswell the 5820k's and 4770/90k's were getting about the same clocks.

[Hiitchy]

I’m going to wait for sales and for motherboards to support the new CPU without needing a BIOS flash. They look nice though.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, This kid builds pc said:

Give up clocks? During haswell the 5820k's and 4770/90k's were getting about the same clocks.

Except Ryzen clocks worse than Broadwell. Leaks peg Ryzen 2K procs at overclocking very similarly to Broadwell. You're giving up clock speed to an extent.

 

Oh, and the 5820K overclocks similarly to the 4770K. 4.5GHz or so.

The 5930K and 4790K both clock closer to 4.8GHz.

[ravenshrike]

2 minutes ago, Hiitchy said:

I’m going to wait for sales and for motherboards to support the new CPU without needing a BIOS flash. They look nice though.

The X470s are coming out the day before the processors drop. Course the cheapest board is going for $140. Does anyone know if they're doing a B450 chipset at all? I could only find some stuff from January that doesn't' look to have been confirmed at all beyond that.

[Canada EH]

On 4/13/2018 at 12:05 PM, xriqn said:

Well, the news is out my friends. Ryzen 2 is on, and it's now available for pre order, how exciting!!! According to The Verge

I'm glad that they're not announcing all the details just yet, I always love a surprise on release and I'm sure all those of you reading do too. Now obviously, there's going to be four second generation chips, those will be as follows (taken from The Verge):

Great to see that the coolers are on AMD this year across ALL AMD Ryzen CPU's, I'm sure it was a bugger for those of you out there who didn't want to buy a new cooler just for socket AM4 unless you bought one of their higher end solutions. You'll also be unsurprised to know that 

Now the new X470 chipset, that is VERY interesting to me. Could that be a new enthusiast chipset to overthrow the current enthusiast chipset, X370? I daresay it is and I do think that it would pair beautifully with AMD's new StoreMI feature as now, hybrids are no more when you buy AMD systems. You can have your speed and capacity together, have all that cake at once, your boot drive is now one with your storage once more! Now what do you all think to this exciting information and are you hyped for Ryzen 2? Let me know down in the comments below!

 

Oh right, yeah, the source is here: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/4/13/17233630/amds-second-generation-ryzen-processors-available-preorder

Good stuff, cant wait to see the benchmarks and prices compared to older gen stuff in Ryzen family. I will have to keep up to date on that stuff, building pc's and all for 5 years now. Its a side business, cash only!

[DanielMDA]

On 13/4/2018 at 5:48 PM, xriqn said:

This is the minor upgrade, it's going to be like Nehlahem to Sandy Bridge when Zen2 comes out.

Nehalem to Sandy Bridge was a huge pgrade, you mean something like Haswell to Broadwell, or Piledriver/Steamroller to Excavator

[DanielMDA]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

 

Quote

No they weren't Vishera was shit too. It was just minor refinements to Bulldozer. Like polishing a turd. Intel still had something absurd like a 40% IPC lead even with Vishera.

 

 Vishera isnt the name of the Architecture. Vishera is the name of the product family. The microarchitecture is Steamroller/Piledriver if I remember correctly. Later they would be polished and made into Excavator and then Excavator v2 iin a 28nm Processs instead of 32nm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RyzenDoctor]

1 hour ago, ravenshrike said:

The X470s are coming out the day before the processors drop. Course the cheapest board is going for $140. Does anyone know if they're doing a B450 chipset at all? I could only find some stuff from January that doesn't' look to have been confirmed at all beyond that.

B450s are supposedly coming, but not on launch day. It may be a few weeks before theyre released. X470s should be available launch day, albeit the cheapest is $140

[ravenshrike]

1 hour ago, DanielMDA said:

Nehalem to Sandy Bridge was a huge pgrade, you mean something like Haswell to Broadwell, or Piledriver/Steamroller to Excavator

This is Zen+. He's talking about the stuff coming out early(hopefully) next year. Architecturally the shift between Zen and Zen 2 should be similar to that between Nehalem and Sandy Bridge as SB was a refined execution of the Nehalem concept. Whether it will see the same amount of upswing remains to be seen of course. A 12% IPC gain over Zen would outside of AVX workloads actually put AMD back on top clock for clock.

[Taf the Ghost]

3 hours ago, Neokolzia said:

It felt like most chips that were destined for Threadripper literally got binned out of the Ryzen line up, as we saw Threadrippers getting far more consistent 4.1 gh overclocks for instance, and nearly no Ryzen's were capable of that with 24/7 stability.

 

And I don't know how true that is, I maxed my voltage on my 1800x and still peaked at 4.275, I would literally need to start pushing like 1.6v or something to see higher then that

AMD's guy that manages their binning procedures said they took the top 2% of dies for use in Threadripper. That's why there are 8c/16t hitting 4.3 Ghz around.

2 hours ago, This kid builds pc said:

Give up clocks? During haswell the 5820k's and 4770/90k's were getting about the same clocks.

For the TDP & motherboards of Mainstream designs, you would expect to give up some Clocks when on the same Node for an 8 core Coffee Lake part. There's not going to be any efficiency gained, so it's a Clock for Clock 33% more power & heat going from 6c to 8c. That's why a new chipset would be needed for the design specs to be met. 

2 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

The X470s are coming out the day before the processors drop. Course the cheapest board is going for $140. Does anyone know if they're doing a B450 chipset at all? I could only find some stuff from January that doesn't' look to have been confirmed at all beyond that.

I've heard Q3 for the B-series boards, but no confirmation.

[leadeater]

50 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

For the TDP & motherboards of Mainstream designs, you would expect to give up some Clocks when on the same Node for an 8 core Coffee Lake part. There's not going to be any efficiency gained, so it's a Clock for Clock 33% more power & heat going from 6c to 8c. That's why a new chipset would be needed for the design specs to be met. 

It was already a thing for 7700k vs 8700k, lower base clock (4.2 vs 3.7) and slightly higher TDP (91 vs 95). Going from 6 to 8 will be the same thing, sacrifices will have to be made or a steep increase in TDP.

 

Even a node shrink won't cancel it out, TDP went up from 22nm to 14nm not down. If you push for performance gains in power efficiency are just used to increase performance.

[SharinganSensei]

So what youre telling me is that AMD StoreMI is just RAID that can fuse different sizes of Hard drives or is it a normal raid?

[Taf the Ghost]

14 minutes ago, leadeater said:

It was already a thing for 7700k vs 8700k, lower base clock (4.2 vs 3.7) and slightly higher TDP (91 vs 95). Going from 6 to 8 will be the same thing, sacrifices will have to be made or a steep increase in TDP.

 

Even a node shrink won't cancel it out, TDP went up from 22nm to 14nm not down. If you push for performance gains in power efficiency are just used to increase performance.

Yup, it's also why a few games that pin 2-4 cores can actually end up running faster on the 7700k over the 8700k as the 8700k is clocking down from having to use all of the cores. (This is also why the 2700X coming with an expect 4.1 Ghz all-core boost actually is a pretty decent clock bump over 1st Gen Ryzen.) 

 

I also think people forget how, relatively, energy efficient the Zen cores are compared to the Skylake cores. The reason AMD can put 8c compared to 6c within roughly the same Thermal margins, at stock, shouldn't be lost on everyone. Skylake cores get especially thirsty when you start running AVX loads, as well. (Things are slightly different at high OCs, but that has little to do the design and far more to do with the nodes both processes are on.)

 

Icelake should bring a pretty big efficiency bump to the Skylake Cores, but we'll see about clocks. Icelake will be a big boost in the Laptop space, though we've seen a lot of that boost already with Coffee Lake. (We don't comment enough how much of an improvement Intel found in the 14nm node for efficiency in the lower frequency range.) However, there doesn't appear to be enough IPC increase on tap to make up for Icelake if it clocks slower than Coffee Lake. Which is probably why 8c parts are coming. They'd then move some Hyperthreading down to the i5 SKUs. I guess I'm expecting 4c/8t i3s starting next year.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

4 hours ago, This kid builds pc said:

I mean the 8150 gets about 800cb OC'd on cinebench whereas in my experience with a 1600 at 4ghz i got 1300 so unless upgrading to a ryzen 7 I don't think it would be worth it. 

 

According to your numbers, that's a 62.5% improvement. If that's not worth it...

[TechGod]

On 4/14/2018 at 7:16 AM, MyName13 said:

Dude what?i5 8400 is cheaper and performs better (or at least the same).You don't even need to overclock it.

You can’t even overclock that piece of shit anyway 

[MyName13]

48 minutes ago, TechGod said:

You can’t even overclock that piece of shit anyway 

So?If it's better than r5 1600 (or at least as good) without overclocking (and can be used with cheaper boards) then there's no purpose of OCing.

[cj09beira]

2 hours ago, SharinganSensei said:

So what youre telling me is that AMD StoreMI is just RAID that can fuse different sizes of Hard drives or is it a normal raid?

its more like a caching technology than anything else

[RyzenDoctor]

1 hour ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

 

According to your numbers, that's a 62.5% improvement. If that's not worth it...

I was waiting for someone to do the maths. The JegaHertz are not everything. IPC and architecture matter. Going from an FX Zambezi architecture to Zen+ will be a huge boost for him. 

 

StoreMI and FuzeDrive appear to merge an SSD with a HDD like the apple fusion drives. Commonly used things get cached on the SSD, and rarely opened files end up on the HDD. The end result is one larger virtual drive.