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(Updated) AMD Navi GPU to Offer GTX 1080 Class Performance at ~$250 Report Claims

Ryujin2003
37 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

I realize AMD isn't licensing it for CPUs, mainly because there's no way Intel would agree to it. Which means they would still need to develop their own tech for anything involving the CPU side. However, that doesn't mean that RTG hasn't licensed it solely for a MCM GPU. Again, AMD would have wanted something significant to just release Koduri to go over to Intel like they did. Using EMIB solely on their discrete graphics cards fits.

AMD isn't licensing it period. AMD has stated they'll move forward with their own which they have done and continue to do so on the GPU side.

I don't think companies trade people for license agreements and I think AMD wanted to get rid of Koduri and vice versa. They may have gotten something but there's really nothing preventing Koduri from working at Intel. Non-compete clauses are illegal in California. What he may not do is disclose AMD secrets or utilize those at Intel. Besides, marketing chief Chris Hook is also rumored to work at Intel and I also don't think there's any trade going on there. People are allowed to leave their job.

 

Interposers seem unfeasible for massive designs but let's see what they can come up with. They may yet make their own EMIB-like technology. I don't think Intel would think it'd be worth it for any sum of money or other agreement to give it to AMD which would allow them to execute on their strategy which may boost the company to previously unseen heights.

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1 minute ago, Trixanity said:

AMD isn't licensing it period. AMD has stated they'll move forward with their own which they have done and continue to do so on the GPU side.

I don't think companies trade people for license agreements and I think AMD wanted to get rid of Koduri and vice versa. They may have gotten something but there's really nothing preventing Koduri from working at Intel. Non-compete clauses are illegal in California. What he may not do is disclose AMD secrets or utilize those at Intel. Besides, marketing chief Chris Hook is also rumored to work at Intel and I also don't think there's any trade going on there. People are allowed to leave their job.

 

Interposers seem unfeasible for massive designs but let's see what they can come up with. They may yet make their own EMIB-like technology. I don't think Intel would think it'd be worth it for any sum of money or other agreement to give AMD to execute on their strategy which may boost the company to previously unseen heights.

There's a few newer approaches out there already, but we'll see. This is clearly the way a lot of things are going.

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1080 claims sustained by a few fringe cases in which AMD does really well and Nvidia really bad.

 

In reality probably 1070 levels for most cases.

 

Which is about what I expect from the 1160 if not more performance. Which will probably release fairly close to Navi btw.

 

So basically nothing new or remarkable at all, it just sounds impressive when you call it so early but anybody who's been following GPUs for even a little while should expect this at the very least since this is what we expect out of most new generations of cards now.

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12 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

1080 claims sustained by a few fringe cases in which AMD does really well and Nvidia really bad.

 

In reality probably 1070 levels for most cases.

 

Which is about what I expect from the 1160 if not more performance. Which will probably release fairly close to Navi btw.

 

So basically nothing new or remarkable at all, it just sounds impressive when you call it so early but anybody who's been following GPUs for even a little while should expect this at the very least since this is what we expect out of most new generations of cards now.

Q2 2019 is going to be nutty with releases. We'll have new generations of CPUs from both AMD & Intel, along with full stacks of GPUs from Nvidia & AMD. 

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Performance might be possible with a node shrink and going gddr5. but at 250$? 

 

No

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2 hours ago, cj09beira said:

in terms of die sizes yes it is, thats probably what he means

 

2 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

. In performance you might consider it to be and high end card, but in reality it is just a mid-end card. 

 

2 hours ago, Okjoek said:

Yes it is according to AdoredTV.

Set it to about 13 minutes in where he talks about this.

 

I know that I'm addressing the side-point here, but I don't care about performance assessments of unreleased products whose performance and pricing I will know accurately when it actually matters (i.e., when you can go and buy them). So, let me proceed to nitpick :P

You can classify products in many ways, and that will lead to all sorts of categories, but when it comes to market segments, there is one way and one way only, and a when a GPU (even at non-mining MSRP) costs as much as a full, perfectly usable gaming PC, or the latest console, it is definitely high end.

I would accept arguments either way about cards like the (MSRP) 1070, but above that there's no way around it, because you are targeting a very selected part of the market with abnormally high willingness to spend on PC parts (compared to the average consumer in the same overall market).

 

Anyone not willing to be dragged by the tangent feel free to ignore this :P 

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19 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

 

 

 

I know that I'm addressing the side-point here, but I don't care about performance assessments of unreleased products whose performance and pricing I will know accurately when it actually matters (i.e., when you can go and buy them). So, let me proceed to nitpick :P

You can classify products in many ways, and that will lead to all sorts of categories, but when it comes to market segments, there is one way and one way only, and a when a GPU (even at non-mining MSRP) costs as much as a full, perfectly usable gaming PC, or the latest console, it is definitely high end.

I would accept arguments either way about cards like the (MSRP) 1070, but above that there's no way around it, because you are targeting a very selected part of the market with abnormally high willingness to spend on PC parts (compared to the average consumer in the same overall market).

I think the "midrange" classification is irreverent myself, I just wanted to share where people are getting that classification from, even if I might have accidentally made it appear:

 

"X is wrong, Y is right"

in my haste to post.

 

To be clear I think classification should be based on something less partisan than nVIDIA or AMD's marketing/ engineering and should not be based on something as fluid as the market because you end up like this where a so called "midrange" card is not affordable to most people.

 

IMO Low end GPU should be 75W or less, mid range should require no more than a single 6 or 8 pin connector and everything beyond that is high-end. Or something along those lines.

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So, are they just saying that their RX 680X or whatever it's going to be called is going to have GTX 1080 performance for around the process of a mid-range card? Isn't that kind of to be expected since new generation mid-range cards tend to have better performance and are or come close to previous generation higher-end cards? Seems like marketing to mislead or confuse people.

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>Hyping unreleased AMD GPUs

 

oh no

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12 minutes ago, Hidden Orange said:

So, are they just saying that their RX 680X or whatever it's going to be called is going to have GTX 1080 performance for around the process of a mid-range card? Isn't that kind of to be expected since new generation mid-range cards tend to have better performance and are or come close to previous generation higher-end cards? Seems like marketing to mislead or confuse people.

Could be the case, but the expected nature of Navi is that the 1080 performance probably isnt the top chip. Its supposed to be scalable and with that comes the possibility of much better performance with pascal level efficiency if its based on CGN. Id say we can at least expects something in the range of Volta, though that is pure speculation and we do not have any details that would make us able to pinpoint the highest performing card Nvidia nor AMD will put out in 2019

 

Edit: il taking an optimistic approach to Navi and its capabilities

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4 hours ago, Castdeath97 said:

Here we go again, boys and girls! It's the RX 480 hype train all over again! 

 

Honestly, at this point, I'd settle for 1070 performance at 250 USD and I'm sure many will agree. Nowadays you can't even get 1060 levels of performance at that price point that you used to get a year and a half ago ...

 

 

Its not really hype that is actually being realistic for once lol.  Mid range having 1080 performance seems likely. 

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Llol so remember when everyone was like, "if Polaris is targeting 980 performance, that means AMD has a higher end chip in the waist that will actually compete."

 

Sure. We believe you this time AMD.

 

Nvidia is probably completely ready with a full volta rollout if it would have been needed, but doesn't look like it will be considering.

 

Seriously. It sure would be cool to see AMD actually competitive in pushing the market forward again. Haven't seen it since OG Hawaii.

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Just now, Curufinwe_wins said:

Llol so remember when everyone was like, "if Polaris is targeting 980 performance, that means AMD has a higher end chip in the waist that will actually compete."

 

Sure. We believe you this time AMD.

 

Nvidia is probably completely ready with a full volta rollout if it would have been needed, but doesn't look like it will be considering.

 

Seriously. It sure would be cool to see AMD actually competitive in pushing the market forward again. Haven't seen it since OG Hawaii.

 

Well they did hit gtx 970 performance and power consumption on the nose.  So I don't see them not doing that again.  But you are right, it isn't going to be going up against mid level Volta, Turning, or what ever its called in any meaningful way.

 

I just don't see where AMD has been spending much money at all on their graphics products.  I hope they were stock piling R&D for a major chip down the road, like after navi.  If not, I don't see this course changing anytime soon.

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Top tier performance

Mid tier price

 

Remember folks, if something sounds to good to be true it is.

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9 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Mid tier performance

Mid tier price

 

Remember folks, if something sounds to good to be true it is.

FTFY

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6 hours ago, Ryujin2003 said:

(Update) So, due to some of the comments I've heard from some online YouTube personalities about how this is horrible because GTX 1080 be inept with Nvidia's future release, and how AMD is falling behind and laying everyone down..

 

Quote

The report on Fudzilla is claiming that the 7nm Navi GPUs will perform around the same level as a top-end 14nm AMD Vega card, which would put it around the same level as a GTX 1080. By that time we’re expecting to have a broad range of next-gen Nvidia graphics cards at our disposal - we should have a GTX 2080 (or GTX 1180, or GTX 1111111111118, who knows at this point...) as well as GTX 2070 and GTX 2060 cards kitting out the top tiers of the gaming market.

If our performance expectations of the next GeForce gen are vaguely correct that would put the top AMD Navi card somewhere between the GTX 2070 and GTX 2060 level. And if they price them right that wouldn’t be a massive problem for them - that’s where the volume market is and selling at a price that gives the performance-comparable Nvidia cards problems could really fill their coffers.

 

So, according to PCGamesN, the Navi cards should be estimated between the 1060 and 1070 replacement cards from Nvidia, which doesn't make Navi seem that bad. And if that is the case, and the scalability and architecture design for memory works out, you could potentially get a card between the **60 and **70, with potential pricing that could definitely make AMD's offerings much moar appealing.

 

Quote

Without competition at launch Nvidia are likely to price the next-gen GeForce GPUs pretty high, giving them chunky mark-ups, but giving AMD a target price to get below. Though that will also give Nvidia a lot of wiggle room to drop their own prices in response.

 

Again, it's hard to throw hate and salt either direction based on an unverified and immeasurable rumor.

Did some looking into the comments and responses from online personalities, and decided to do a little digging. I can't do much more than this at the current moment, but if this would be placed between the 1060 and 1070 replacements, would it still be the end of days as some speculate?

 

Did anyone have any good sources for the future GTX lineup and how those might compare to the 1080?

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5 hours ago, asus killer said:

i don't get this, AMD already has Vega 64 to compete with 1080 kind of, so what would be the point to be developing a card for a year to do the exact same thing? Yes it would be more power efficient with 7nm, still seems like a lot of work and money for nothing.

I don't believe they are developing Navi at 7nm just to come up with a Vega 64 performance clone. If it ends up to be true it's because Navi was a failure and couldn't be pushed further.

What this article claims is that when Navi comes out next year AMD expects that Vega64/gtx1080 level performance will be what is expected in the mid-range currently occupied by RX 580 / GTX 1060. Assuming things will be back to MSRP by then... So Navi 10 will compete with Nvidia 1160 or 1260 or whatever they have in that bracket...

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Humbug said:

What this article claims is that when Navi comes out next year AMD expects that Vega64/gtx1080 level performance will be what is expected in the mid-range currently occupied by RX 580 / GTX 1060. Assuming things will be back to MSRP by then... So Navi 10 will compete with Nvidia 1160 or 1260 or whatever they have in that bracket...

 

 

The side I just updated with claims that Navi will be between 1060 and 1070 replacement performance, so it will still be relevant compared to Nvidia offerings if that is the case.

 

Additionally, it looks like this will most likely be cheaper to manufacture, and given the time, they should be able to fix the issues with Vegas to make Navi more successful.

 

And this is the base Navi, nothing on Navi 20 at this point, which is supposed to be the scalable higher end enthusiast cards. Way to early for info on this I would assume.

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17 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Did some looking into the comments and responses from online personalities, and decided to do a little digging. I can't do much more than this at the current moment, but if this would be placed between the 1060 and 1070 replacements, would it still be the end of days as some speculate?

 

Did anyone have any good sources for the future GTX lineup and how those might compare to the 1080?

 

 

Looking at what Volta can do, pure compute, compared to Pascal, its going to be a similar update from Maxwell to Pascal, I expect at least 50% update in over all performance per tier.  All of this of course if nV is able to keep its unit scaling and doesn't run into random bottlenecks with its hardware, which since Fermi they seemed to have been able to do this rather well.

 

So a 1160 or what ever it is, mid range should perform like a 1080 at 120 watts.  (this could be off it might be lower in power consumption because even with all the extras of V100 its still saying at 250 watts)  Now the way nV designs their chips, there most perf/watt chips are in the gx104 line up, not their gx106 chips.  Don't know if they will change this, but they might.  As with Maxwell, the worst perf/watt chip was the gm107's, 950's.  That changed with Pascal, the worst perf/watt chip was the gp106 lol. 

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16 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Did some looking into the comments and responses from online personalities, and decided to do a little digging. I can't do much more than this at the current moment, but if this would be placed between the 1060 and 1070 replacements, would it still be the end of days as some speculate?

 

Did anyone have any good sources for the future GTX lineup and how those might compare to the 1080?

Well, it doesn't seem unlikely that a 1060 replacement will be touching a 1080 in performance and in contrast to Polaris that would make it deja vu. That would indicate that an RX 680 (Navi) is around 1160 performance and we might be waiting around for a 1180 competitor for a year or so (yikes). We don't know when these cards (Nvidia's next lineup) will launch though and 7nm isn't ready for Nvidia yet I believe. A 1160 matching 1080 would pretty much require a 7nm shrink.

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A lot has been speculated about Navi so far. As far as I understand, Navi will be more scalable than previous GCN models. Before you only got 1 GCN chip, that would be used in two different cards: One cut chip and one uncut chip.

If Navi is more scalable we might see something similar to NVidia's line up, where the architecture can spread across several chips, not just 1 chip in cut/uncut versions. The result would be an entire line of Navi cards from mainstream to high end cards. That would support this rumour but still allow for high end performance.

 

Either way, AMD has more money to invest in R&D now, and they need to use it. With NVidia's scummy GPP and probable great performance in Ampere(?!), AMD simply cannot just focus on mid end. That could make NVidia focus on higher end chips, and simply force AMD's product so far down the product line, that it would be similar to a 550/560 in next gen. Get on in AMD. We need a KOTH card or thereabouts at decent prices. Heck we need GPU's to be at decent prices in general.

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I’ll belive it when I see it. Would love an upgrade from my R9 380 though I don’t really need it. 

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Wow! GTX 1080 performance in 2019xD. Nvidia is going to catch up too LOL. It is like they are comparing 1080ti with 780ti(which is equivalent to GTX 1060) LOL. 

How you can expect that it is a good deal? As they are planning to launch in 2019 not now>:( .Don't get excited guys the competition will still be like RX 480/580 vs GTX 1060.

 

 

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5 hours ago, GoldenLag said:

i didnt come to the conclusion that it was mid end personally, i was however convinced by someone else who gave it a historical perspektive. Though i wont mind others calling it high end or mid-end. again it wasnt my point. 

By chance did you watch the AdoredTV video?

 

Because that guy hates NVIDIA and Intel with a passion.

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3 minutes ago, Notional said:

A lot has been speculated about Navi so far. As far as I understand, Navi will be more scalable than previous GCN models. Before you only got 1 GCN chip, that would be used in two different cards: One cut chip and one uncut chip.

If Navi is more scalable we might see something similar to NVidia's line up, where the architecture can spread across several chips, not just 1 chip in cut/uncut versions. The result would be an entire line of Navi cards from mainstream to high end cards. That would support this rumour but still allow for high end performance.

 

Either way, AMD has more money to invest in R&D now, and they need to use it. With NVidia's scummy GPP and probable great performance in Ampere(?!), AMD simply cannot just focus on mid end. That could make NVidia focus on higher end chips, and simply force AMD's product so far down the product line, that it would be similar to a 550/560 in next gen. Get on in AMD. We need a KOTH card or thereabouts at decent prices. Heck we need GPU's to be at decent prices in general.

 

yes that is what is going to happen with Navi hopefully.  AMD needs to diverge line ups from Compute vs Gaming just as nV did.  But will they be using the same architecture?  For now that doesn't seem to be the case as Vega 7 will remain the sole high end compute chip.  To accomplish this it took nV 4 generations of GPU's.  To make sure while removing the HPC aspects of the GPU or reducing them, the trances must be redundant for this to happen, that takes up transistors.  Keplar was the last one chip to rule them all gens from nV.  But even before Keplar, we saw decoupling of TMU's from nV's architecture with the Tesla and Fermi line ups. 

 

Navi is taped out so R&D increases will be for the chip after Navi, if they can increase it substantially enough.  Right now they did increase it some but nothing that much.

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