Windows 10 April Update - Here is everything you need to know - OUT NOW!

[LAwLz]

16 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

I was hoping they'll do Apple style naming schemes but instead of places of interest in California like Yosemite National Park and Sierra County, maybe Microsoft would consider names from places of interest in Washington state like Olympic or Space Needle. 

Or how about Windows 10.4, or whichever major update we are on right now? No need to dance around with silly names without any structure or reason to them.

 

 

13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I don't like about ZFS as well, namely how inflexible it is (mostly in regards to not being able to expand vdevs).

Isn't that mostly an OpenZFS limitation though, which they are currently working on fixing?

 

14 minutes ago, leadeater said:

massively parallel multi protocol storage gets me exited  

That's a sentence you don't hear very often...

 

anyway I hope you understand what I meant. It seems like Microsoft aren't interested in making ReFS a widely used file system, and even if it had more support it still wouldn't help with devices like laptops and desktops which are in a desperate need to move away from NTFS.

[App4that]

I really hope HDR works this time, I really do. 

[GoodBytes]

7 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Or how about Windows 10.4, or whichever major update we are on right now? No need to dance around with silly names without any structure or reason to them.

Windows 10.5

(Threshold 1 - Initial release (10.0), then Threshold  2 (10.1), Redstone 1, 2, 3 and now 4). Then again Threshold 2, the November Update, was mostly bug fixes... so is it 10.1 or 10.0.1....

 

[davrosG5]

I assume they won't call it Windows 10.x because that would look like they were copying Apple's naming for OS X. In any case, it gets silly when you go over 10.9 - is it then Windows 11.0 or 10.10?

[ThreePinkApples]

28 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

 

 

PS: You didn't update the build number in the main post to 17134

 

 

9 minutes ago, davrosG5 said:

I assume they won't call it Windows 10.x because that would look like they were copying Apple's naming for OS X. In any case, it gets silly when you go over 10.9 - is it then Windows 11.0 or 10.10?

 

35 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Or how about Windows 10.4, or whichever major update we are on right now? No need to dance around with silly names without any structure or reason to them.

 

Their version numbering is following in the path of Ubuntu (or whoever started it), with YYMM, so 1507, 1511, 1607, 1703, 1709, 1803 and the next one will be 1809, then 1903 etc. etc. I think they should just use that, or say "2018 April update", "2018 October update" to make it more marketable or something

[anotherriddle]

Some of these features could be really good if they are implemented in a coherent way. As it stands now windows 10 features are changing too much or are too unreliable to implement in my workflow. I will continue to use fedora.

[Delicieuxz]

On 10/04/2018 at 10:13 AM, GoodBytes said:

 

Edge

Edge isn't left out, of course, and got a nice set of features

• You can now mute a tab from the right-clicking on the tab, or hitting the speaker icon on the tab.
• Auto Fill forms (here is a demo video of it:

The part that I'm most interested in is the title bar there having an aero-like gradient to it. Is that a part of "fluent", and something that we can have on all windows, or is that only a mod the person performing the demo has installed?

 

 

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Or how about Windows 10.4, or whichever major update we are on right now? No need to dance around with silly names without any structure or reason to them.

I so agree. the names Microsoft gives these updates are lame, and they are a burden to have to write out. Microsoft must think they're going to make their bloated and uninspiring updates sound lofty and alluring by calling them things like "Creator's Update", but the fact that Windows 10 is such an anti-creator OS due to settings resetting, artificial restrictions and convoluted and inefficient interface design, constant changes and programs breaking with updates, and a lack of personal control over how the OS behaves completely defuses the propaganda Microsoft is trying to push with its update names.

 

 

Also, Microsoft's desperate wish that UWP apps will become popular by calling Win32 apps "classic" apps in this update is hilarious.

[Notional]

Isn't this thing delayed to May now?

[Jtalk4456]

"redstone update"

[GoodBytes]

17 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

The part that I'm most interested in is the title bar there having an aero-like gradient to it. Is that a part of "fluent", and something that we can have on all windows, or is that only a mod the person performing the demo has installed?

Only Edge has it for now. And yes it is part of Fluent Design, which the OS is still in transition.

 

17 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Also, Microsoft's desperate wish that UWP apps will become popular by calling Win32 apps "classic" apps in this update is hilarious.

"classic" is used, as non developers don't know what Win32 is. I had to explain this many times here, and I am sure that most people still doesn't know what Win32 is, and just goes in their head "Win32 = current old programs I use"

[Delicieuxz]

44 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Only Edge has it for now. And yes it is part of Fluent Design, which the OS is still in transition.

 

"classic" is used, as non developers don't know what Win32 is. I had to explain this many times here, and I am sure that most people still doesn't know what Win32 is, and just goes in their head "Win32 = current old programs I use"

Win32 also = all the new programs most people use. And in 5 years from now, that will likely not have changed.

 

I think that UWP stands a very good chance of ending up like GFWL did - abandoned after failing to catch on for many years. There really isn't motivation for developers to use UWP because it's more restrictive, and with worse performance than Win32. And for customers, it's also just an added liability that offers fewer avenues for trouble-shooting and work-arounds, and for customizing their software. From both the developer and software owner perspective, UWP is in inferior offering to Win32.

 

It sounds to me like Microsoft is attempting, by labelling Win32 "classic" to associate Win32 with a sense of 'outdatedness' when Win32 is more relevant to everybody's interests today than UWP is. Microsoft would be doing that to attempt to manipulate people to use UWP apps, which they'd buy from the Microsoft Store, and which Microsoft would take a 30% cut of the profits from.

 

I think Microsoft will just end up breathing life into the term "classic", since it will become positively associated with being an indicator that whatever is labelled "classic" has the superior and more powerful program platform.

[vanished]

7 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Get your PC's ready. Microsoft announces that the official name of the Windows 10 update will be called: Windows 10 April Update. And it will be released this Monday (April 30th) for those who wants to force the update using the Media Creation Tool, or Microsoft Update Assistance. And it will be distributed through Windows Update May 8 (probably in waves, as always).

 

 

Source: https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-announces-the-windows-10-april-2018-update-and-its-coming-on-monday

Usually I'm eager to get these as soon as they're available (without crossing over into insider territory) but considering the issues, I think I might just wait a week or two and see how it goes...

[GoodBytes]

20 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Usually I'm eager to get these as soon as they're available (without crossing over into insider territory) but considering the issues, I think I might just wait a week or two and see how it goes...

Windows is perfect, any flaws are just optical illusions.

[yian88]

9 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Windows is perfect, any flaws are just optical illusions.

oh my someone is out fishing, that bait stinks

 

 

Well you didnt say anything about the extra added data collection.

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, yian88 said:

oh my someone is out fishing, that bait stinks

 

Well you didnt say anything about the extra added data collection.

My post was a joke.

[Hawx]

10 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Win32 also = all the new programs most people use. And in 5 years from now, that will likely not have changed.

 

I think that UWP stands a very good chance of ending up like GFWL did - abandoned after failing to catch on for many years. There really isn't motivation for developers to use UWP because it's more restrictive, and with worse performance than Win32. And for customers, it's also just an added liability that offers fewer avenues for trouble-shooting and work-arounds, and for customizing their software. From both the developer and software owner perspective, UWP is in inferior offering to Win32.

 

It sounds to me like Microsoft is attempting, by labelling Win32 "classic" to associate Win32 with a sense of 'outdatedness' when Win32 is more relevant to everybody's interests today than UWP is. Microsoft would be doing that to attempt to manipulate people to use UWP apps, which they'd buy from the Microsoft Store, and which Microsoft would take a 30% cut of the profits from.

 

I think Microsoft will just end up breathing life into the term "classic", since it will become positively associated with being an indicator that whatever is labelled "classic" has the superior and more powerful program platform.

As usual your blanket negativity results in you ignoring the number of benefits that UWP provides, and the future of Windows as a whole.

 

UWP allows for clean installs and uninstalls. Application files are kept in a single location and not scattered around the place. A single click removes all trace of the application from the system. UWP also enforces behaviour consistency, with all UWP games running in a native borderless window that can be exited or minimized at any time.

 

Additionally, UWP allows for simple permission management, with permissions required to be granted explicitly as required, and not just implicitly granted like with Win32.

 

UWP is not bound to the Microsoft store. Adobe already installs UWP apps from its own installer. Performance within UWP is on par or faster than Win32.

 

Microsoft's current major internal project is Windows Core OS/Polaris, essentially stripping legacy support from Windows and moving Win32 to be an optional, isolated component. File Explorer is also set to be replaced by a UWP version in the near future. It might not be within the next 5 years, but Win32 is set to die at some point.

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, Hawx said:

Application files are kept in a single location and not scattered around the place. A single click removes all trace of the application from the system.

This is also possible with win32. The only difference is that with UWP developers are forced to do it, even though it might not always make sense to keep everything in one place.

 

3 hours ago, Hawx said:

UWP also enforces behaviour consistency, with all UWP games running in a native borderless window that can be exited or minimized at any time.

Yes, and running as borderless window is already possible. The only difference is that developers are forced to do it now, even in cases where it might not make sense, such as trying to bypass a limitation of DWM.

We've already run into issues such as DWM forcing v-sync, not supporting adaptive frame rates (like FreeSync or G-Sync) and not supporting HDR. The things I listed are now supported but the point is that developers are now stuck with using whatever Microsoft gives them. If someone thinks of a new cool technique such as let's say super-HDR, then they can not implement it like they can with win32. They have to beg Microsoft to implement it before it can be used in UWP.

 

3 hours ago, Hawx said:

Additionally, UWP allows for simple permission management, with permissions required to be granted explicitly as required, and not just implicitly granted like with Win32.

And the drawback of that is that, once again, developers are forced to only do whatever Microsoft has added support for. If something can't be done with the permissions Microsoft has exposed, then it can't be done no matter how hard the developer tries. Want to read memory from another process? Sorry, can't be done and the user can't even give explicit permission for it. Want to check which window is focused right now, in order to for example add an overlay to some program? Sorry, can't be done either.

 

 

3 hours ago, Hawx said:

UWP is not bound to the Microsoft store. Adobe already installs UWP apps from its own installer.

Yeah, but it's disabled by default and Microsoft could potentially remove it at any point in time. It would benefit them tremendously from removing that option if UWP was popular.

 

3 hours ago, Hawx said:

Performance within UWP is on par or faster than Win32.

This is the biggest load of bullshit I have seen all day. UWP performance is not on par or faster than Win32. In a lot of cases it is dramatically slower because of the extremely limited framework. Try making a high performance encoder such as x264 in UWP. You can't, because you can't use asm code in UWP (at least not without some potential dirty workaround that I am not aware of, which could eat up the performance gains anyway).

It's very hard to write a slow program in UWP because of all the restrictions and things that are out of your control behind the scenes, but those same restrictions and automation makes it impossible to have the full control necessary when doing very fine optimizations.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Hawx said:

Microsoft's current major internal project is Windows Core OS/Polaris, essentially stripping legacy support from Windows and moving Win32 to be an optional, isolated component. File Explorer is also set to be replaced by a UWP version in the near future. It might not be within the next 5 years, but Win32 is set to die at some point.

Yep, and that is why Windows is currently turning to shit. Microsoft are ruining the one strength Windows has over other operating systems, very wide third party support.

There is no dancing around it. UWP is strictly far more limited than win32 and it has a huge amount of massive drawbacks such as the ones mentioned already. Even the "benefits" you listed are not entirely beneficial since they are mostly just forcing concepts that already exists in win32, and removes the option from developers to make exceptions when it might make sense.

 

Microsoft's goal is obvious. Get people to use the store where they can take a cut from all software sales just like Apple and Google does. At the same time they are trying to fix a lot of Windows issues like malware, inconsistent scaling in programs, etc, by forcing developers to do it the way Microsoft wants, but that comes at the expense of flexibility.

[AresKrieger]

19 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Yep, and that is why Windows is currently turning to shit. Microsoft are ruining the one strength Windows has over other operating systems, very wide third party support.

Yeah I don't see this scheme going well, I guess I can simply hope Vulkan takes off to negate the one necessity windows now provides me, its rather infuriating that they are even attempting this nonsense its as if they are trying to be Apple in all the worst possible ways.

[LAwLz]

2 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Yeah I don't see this going well, well I guess I can simply hope Vulkan takes off to negate the one necessity windows now provides me, its rather infuriating that they are even attempting this nonsense they are trying to be Apple in all the worst possible ways.

Speaking of Vulkan, as well as application frameworks like Qt, UWP doesn't allow it.

Want to use Vulkan in your UWP program? Sorry, you're not allowed to do so. It's DirectX only.

Want to use Qt for creating the interface of your program? Sorry, but you are forced to use whatever the UWP one is called.

 

Clearly attempts at limiting cross-platform compatibility.

[leadeater]

6 hours ago, Hawx said:

with all UWP games running in a native borderless window that can be exited or minimized at any time.

That's not a good thing, borderless window mode will always have certain technical limitations that wouldn't be a problem on exclusive full screen mode. Like crossfire, that doesn't work in borderless, and sure everyone can say as much as you like about SLI and crossfire but there is zero reason it should be so problematic now days, just none. If we can get 8+ CPU socket server systems working or multi GPU parallel compute even over multiple servers getting at least two GPUs working in games is not too much to ask, too little in my view.

[Notional]

It's live for download using the download tool now.

[GoodBytes]

Main post updated with download instructions.

[Froody129]

Am I the only one who hasn't had problems with Windows Update? I'm hardly a power user though 

 

(On W10 Pro)

[grayperview]

downloading now, slowly!

[App4that]

2 minutes ago, super_skank said:

downloading now, slowly!

You Sir, are brave.