Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
TechyBen

Claim that some types of Altcoin *are* money laundering?

Recommended Posts

Posted · Original PosterOP

Interesting take on the subject by Computerphile. A claim here that Monero was made to money launder. Does that mean it has ethical and/or legal repercussions? It would put me off using it, vs Bitcoin. As I'd see Bitcoin as purely anonymous/trading value trading and Monero as purely zero repercussion trading.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t think this is “Tech News” per se, but I did just watch this video also. 

 

Does a builtin laundering feature mean it has legal repercussions? Absolutely, because you only launder money if it has been tainted, and you can’t legally own something “in good faith” if you know its been tainted or have reasonable suspicion. Does such a feature have ethical repercussions? I think on a society level yes, on an individual level ethics are a personal matter.


Looking to buy GTX690, other multi-GPU cards, or single-slot graphics cards: 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, brwainer said:

I don’t think this is “Tech News” per se, but I did just watch this video also. 

 

Does a builtin laundering feature mean it has legal repercussions? Absolutely, because you only launder money if it has been tainted, and you can’t legally own something “in good faith” if you know its been tainted or have reasonable suspicion. Does such a feature have ethical repercussions? I think on a society level yes, on an individual level ethics are a personal matter.

Ah, you are right, should have been discussion. Whoops!

 

You seem right on the legal/moral thing. Could it be said Bitcoin is anonymous by design, but so is money. However, Monero is untraceable by design. Technically, money is. But it's interesting Bitcoin does not hit this "problem".

Link to post
Share on other sites

they're made to buy drug, but honestly litecoin is working fine on that


PC Build: R5-1600.  Scythe Mugen 5.  GTX 1060.  120 GB SSD.  1 TB HDD.  FDD Mini C.  8 GB RAM (3000 MHz).  Be Quiet Pure Wings 2.  Capstone-550.  Deepcool 350 RGB.

Peripherals: Qisan Magicforce (80%) w/ Gateron Blues.  Razer Naga Chroma.  Lenovo 24" 1440p IPS.  PS4 Controller.

Audio: Focusrite (Solo, 2nd), SM57, Triton Fethead, AKG c214, Sennheiser HD598's, ATH-M50x, AKG K240, Novation Launchkey

Wishlist: MP S-87, iPad, Yamaha HS5's, more storage

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

A claim here that Monero was made to money launder.

This is like saying that the torrent protocol was made to illegally download content. Monero was made to function equivalent to cash in the digital world. It's still technically trackable, but only if you stay on it every step of the way in the chain exactly like cash. What you can't do is say when and where every person had ahold of the currency in question. Which you can't do with cash either. Those claiming otherwise are the same kinds of people who want to abolish cash in the first place precisely so everything can be tracked. Zcash is fundamentally different from Monero precisely because you have a choice whether to launder it or not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't surprise me. I'm sure that people launder money in every way imaginable...even if it's just a car wash  ;)


There's no place like ~

Spoiler

Problems and solutions:

 

FreeNAS

Spoiler

Dell Server 11th gen

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

ESXI

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
7 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

This is like saying that the torrent protocol was made to illegally download content. Monero was made to function equivalent to cash in the digital world. It's still technically trackable, but only if you stay on it every step of the way in the chain exactly like cash. What you can't do is say when and where every person had ahold of the currency in question. Which you can't do with cash either. Those claiming otherwise are the same kinds of people who want to abolish cash in the first place precisely so everything can be tracked. Zcash is fundamentally different from Monero precisely because you have a choice whether to launder it or not.

Intent can have a massive difference. For example, buying a knife to make dinner from vegetables. VS buying a knife to make dinner from the neighbours.

 

While you cannot prove intent, and chasing without knowing it is a problem... if someone says "I'm buying a knife to attack", then intent is know. Is it known that Monero is for laundering?

 

Even without the intent, does Monero break some laws Bitcoin does not? In your example, AFAIK torrent protocol breaks no law of themselves, but the contents can. A trade can break the law (failure to note on tax returns when applicable etc)? Is there anything mechanically involved in altcoins that can make them illegal then?

 

I guess it only makes the laundering facilities doing it knowing they have "bad" coins the problem, not the protocol it's self?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Monero is amoral just like many other things. It is what humans do with it that makes it good or bad.


There's no place like ~

Spoiler

Problems and solutions:

 

FreeNAS

Spoiler

Dell Server 11th gen

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

ESXI

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Monero was designed specifically to enhance anonymity.  Which you could argue is intent to facilitate black market appeal, not that Im making that argument.

Except every piconero "serial number" stays the same. Which means that anytime one crosses into the hands of a monitored ring it can be tracked. It is exactly like cash in that respect. Now, the feds could easily make a law that any transaction which crosses state lines or international borders needs to be reported to be legal, but that doesn't have anything to do with the currency itself.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ravenshrike said:

Except every piconero "serial number" stays the same. Which means that anytime one crosses into the hands of a monitored ring it can be tracked. It is exactly like cash in that respect. Now, the feds could easily make a law that any transaction which crosses state lines or international borders needs to be reported to be legal, but that doesn't have anything to do with the currency itself.

AFAIK on some networks, you can re-hash a coin.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Whenever or not they were made to launder money is irrelevant when they all can and often are being used to launder money.

 

This will forever be the number one deterrent from Cryptocurrency: the fact that is without any kind of regulation is a detriment, not a feature.


-------

Current Rig

-------

Link to post
Share on other sites

ITT: 

 


My Rig "Jenova" Ryzen 7 1700X with EK Supremacy Elite, 2x GTX1080TI with EK Fullcover Acetal + Nickel & EK Backplate, Corsair AX1200i (sleeved), ASUS Crosshair VI Hero, 2x 8gb Trident Z RGB 3200MHz 14CL, 256gb Samsung 960 Evo, Xigmatek Elysium (modded), 140mm, 360mm and 420mm HardwareLabs Nemesis GTX, 5x Noctua NF-A14, 3x Noctua NF-F12

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

Could it be said Bitcoin is anonymous by design, but so is money.

no its not? 

you can easily trace where your BTC are coming from and going.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That is NOT what he said. He's saying that, if cryptos were classified as normal money, by law monero would be equivalent to money laundering. Please listen to what the guy is saying before putting words in his mouth.


...is there a question here? 🤔

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

What is scaling and how does it work? Asus PB287Q unboxing! Console alternatives :D Watch Netflix with Kodi on Arch Linux Sharing folders over the internet using SSH Beginner's Guide To LTT (by iamdarkyoshi)

Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Cash is not easily traceable AFAIK

but bitcoin is, unless its bought with cash or gift cards.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Crypto is a haven for Money Laundering. I wonder how much gets laundered every day. 


Laptop: 2016 13" nTB MacBook Pro Core i5 | Phone: iPhone 8 Plus 64GB | Wearables: Apple Watch Sport Series 2 | CPU: R5 2600 | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 16GB 2666 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 10 | Storage: 480GB PNY SSD & 2TB WD Green HDD | PSU: Corsair CX600M | Display: Dell 27 Gaming Monitor S2719DGF 1440p @155Hz, Dell UZ2215H 21.5" 1080p, ViewSonic VX2450wm-LED 23.6" 1080p | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G303 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Crypto is a haven for Money Laundering. I wonder how much gets laundered every day. 

Bet you it's a hell of a lot less than cash.


Please quote my post, or put @paddy-stone if you want me to respond to you.

https://www.dictionary.com/  is good for helping with spelling, if you care.

 

Spoiler
  • PCs:-
  • Main PC build  https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/GZWxgJ
  • ASUS x53e  - i7 2670QM / Sony BD writer x8 / Win 10, Elemetary OS, Ubuntu/ Samsung 830 SSD
  • Lenovo G50 - 8Gb RAM - Samsung 860 Evo 250GB SSD - DVD writer
  • Displays:-
  • Philips 55 OLED 754 model
  • Panasonic 55" 4k TV
  • LG 29" Ultrawide
  • Philips 24" 1080p monitor as backup
  • Storage/NAS/Servers:-
  • ESXI/test build  https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/4wyR9G
  • Main Server https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/3Qftyk
  • Backup server - HP Proliant Gen 8 4 bay NAS running FreeNAS ZFS striped 3x3TiB WD reds
  • HP ProLiant G6 Server SE316M1 Twin Hex Core Intel Xeon E5645 2.40GHz 48GB RAM
  • Gaming/Tablets etc:-
  • Xbox One S 500GB + 2TB HDD
  • PS4
  • Nvidia Shield TV
  • Xiaomi/Pocafone F1 128GB 6GB RAM
  • Xiaomi Redmi Note 4
  • Lenovo k3 note
  • Windows tablet
  • Unused Hardware currently :-
  • i7 6700K  b250 mobo - Thermaltake Core V21-  EVGA Supernova G2 650W Gold PSU
  • AMD phenom II 1055t / 8GB RAM / DVD writer
  • Zotac GTX 1060 6GB Amp! edition x2
  • Zotac GTX 1050 mini
  • Nvidia Shield K1 tablet

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, asus killer said:

you don't actually launder cash with cash. 

What?  cash comes into the laundering business of course, then that would get put into the bank, and hey presto laundered. Depends on who's doing the laundering of course though.


Please quote my post, or put @paddy-stone if you want me to respond to you.

https://www.dictionary.com/  is good for helping with spelling, if you care.

 

Spoiler
  • PCs:-
  • Main PC build  https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/GZWxgJ
  • ASUS x53e  - i7 2670QM / Sony BD writer x8 / Win 10, Elemetary OS, Ubuntu/ Samsung 830 SSD
  • Lenovo G50 - 8Gb RAM - Samsung 860 Evo 250GB SSD - DVD writer
  • Displays:-
  • Philips 55 OLED 754 model
  • Panasonic 55" 4k TV
  • LG 29" Ultrawide
  • Philips 24" 1080p monitor as backup
  • Storage/NAS/Servers:-
  • ESXI/test build  https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/4wyR9G
  • Main Server https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/3Qftyk
  • Backup server - HP Proliant Gen 8 4 bay NAS running FreeNAS ZFS striped 3x3TiB WD reds
  • HP ProLiant G6 Server SE316M1 Twin Hex Core Intel Xeon E5645 2.40GHz 48GB RAM
  • Gaming/Tablets etc:-
  • Xbox One S 500GB + 2TB HDD
  • PS4
  • Nvidia Shield TV
  • Xiaomi/Pocafone F1 128GB 6GB RAM
  • Xiaomi Redmi Note 4
  • Lenovo k3 note
  • Windows tablet
  • Unused Hardware currently :-
  • i7 6700K  b250 mobo - Thermaltake Core V21-  EVGA Supernova G2 650W Gold PSU
  • AMD phenom II 1055t / 8GB RAM / DVD writer
  • Zotac GTX 1060 6GB Amp! edition x2
  • Zotac GTX 1050 mini
  • Nvidia Shield K1 tablet

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, paddy-stone said:

What?  cash comes into the laundering business of course, then that would get put into the bank, and hey presto laundered. Depends on who's doing the laundering of course though.

Should watch Ozark on Netflix


Laptop: 2016 13" nTB MacBook Pro Core i5 | Phone: iPhone 8 Plus 64GB | Wearables: Apple Watch Sport Series 2 | CPU: R5 2600 | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 16GB 2666 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 10 | Storage: 480GB PNY SSD & 2TB WD Green HDD | PSU: Corsair CX600M | Display: Dell 27 Gaming Monitor S2719DGF 1440p @155Hz, Dell UZ2215H 21.5" 1080p, ViewSonic VX2450wm-LED 23.6" 1080p | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G303 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, DrMacintosh said:

Should watch Ozark on Netflix

Yep, seen it... good show :)

 


Please quote my post, or put @paddy-stone if you want me to respond to you.

https://www.dictionary.com/  is good for helping with spelling, if you care.

 

Spoiler
  • PCs:-
  • Main PC build  https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/GZWxgJ
  • ASUS x53e  - i7 2670QM / Sony BD writer x8 / Win 10, Elemetary OS, Ubuntu/ Samsung 830 SSD
  • Lenovo G50 - 8Gb RAM - Samsung 860 Evo 250GB SSD - DVD writer
  • Displays:-
  • Philips 55 OLED 754 model
  • Panasonic 55" 4k TV
  • LG 29" Ultrawide
  • Philips 24" 1080p monitor as backup
  • Storage/NAS/Servers:-
  • ESXI/test build  https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/4wyR9G
  • Main Server https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/3Qftyk
  • Backup server - HP Proliant Gen 8 4 bay NAS running FreeNAS ZFS striped 3x3TiB WD reds
  • HP ProLiant G6 Server SE316M1 Twin Hex Core Intel Xeon E5645 2.40GHz 48GB RAM
  • Gaming/Tablets etc:-
  • Xbox One S 500GB + 2TB HDD
  • PS4
  • Nvidia Shield TV
  • Xiaomi/Pocafone F1 128GB 6GB RAM
  • Xiaomi Redmi Note 4
  • Lenovo k3 note
  • Windows tablet
  • Unused Hardware currently :-
  • i7 6700K  b250 mobo - Thermaltake Core V21-  EVGA Supernova G2 650W Gold PSU
  • AMD phenom II 1055t / 8GB RAM / DVD writer
  • Zotac GTX 1060 6GB Amp! edition x2
  • Zotac GTX 1050 mini
  • Nvidia Shield K1 tablet

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, paddy-stone said:

What?  cash comes into the laundering business of course, then that would get put into the bank, and hey presto laundered. Depends on who's doing the laundering of course though.

to launder cash you need some economic activity to do it, that's how you do it. You can't launder cash with cash, that wouldn't work, it would immediately raise red flags if you just tried to transform "bad dollars" into clean dollars or even euros or any other currency, without the mentioned activity as a intermediary

every country has laws that immediately force any bank to red flag any attempts to do so


.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, asus killer said:

to launder cash you need some economic activity to do it, that's how you do it. You can't launder cash with cash, that wouldn't work, it would immediately raise red flags if you just tried to transform "bad dollars" into clean dollars or even euros or any other currency, without the mentioned activity as a intermediary

every country has laws that immediately force any bank to red flag any attempts to do so

OK, one thing... I never said you launder cash with cash... I said

 

5 hours ago, paddy-stone said:

Bet you it's a hell of a lot less than cash.

So yes, you take your cash to a drug dealer or criminal enterprize you favour, then they launder that cash through shell companies... so laundering cash.


Please quote my post, or put @paddy-stone if you want me to respond to you.

https://www.dictionary.com/  is good for helping with spelling, if you care.

 

Spoiler
  • PCs:-
  • Main PC build  https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/GZWxgJ
  • ASUS x53e  - i7 2670QM / Sony BD writer x8 / Win 10, Elemetary OS, Ubuntu/ Samsung 830 SSD
  • Lenovo G50 - 8Gb RAM - Samsung 860 Evo 250GB SSD - DVD writer
  • Displays:-
  • Philips 55 OLED 754 model
  • Panasonic 55" 4k TV
  • LG 29" Ultrawide
  • Philips 24" 1080p monitor as backup
  • Storage/NAS/Servers:-
  • ESXI/test build  https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/4wyR9G
  • Main Server https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/3Qftyk
  • Backup server - HP Proliant Gen 8 4 bay NAS running FreeNAS ZFS striped 3x3TiB WD reds
  • HP ProLiant G6 Server SE316M1 Twin Hex Core Intel Xeon E5645 2.40GHz 48GB RAM
  • Gaming/Tablets etc:-
  • Xbox One S 500GB + 2TB HDD
  • PS4
  • Nvidia Shield TV
  • Xiaomi/Pocafone F1 128GB 6GB RAM
  • Xiaomi Redmi Note 4
  • Lenovo k3 note
  • Windows tablet
  • Unused Hardware currently :-
  • i7 6700K  b250 mobo - Thermaltake Core V21-  EVGA Supernova G2 650W Gold PSU
  • AMD phenom II 1055t / 8GB RAM / DVD writer
  • Zotac GTX 1060 6GB Amp! edition x2
  • Zotac GTX 1050 mini
  • Nvidia Shield K1 tablet

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×