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Memory inductors on older Nvidia GPUs are failing

17 hours ago, crystal6tak said:

Mine wasn't even a reference PCB. It was an FTW card. The unlucky thing was my card only has 2 R33 inductors, and one just so happen to burn up...

That is a reference PCB. It just has beefier GPU VRM among other things.

 

You can actually see the underlying reference PCB. Although that doesn't mean waterblocks made for ref cards will fit that.

 

The only proper custom PCB cards that EVGA make are Classified and K|NGP|N. Maybe the Pascal FTW board is custom now too, idk.

Our Grace. The Feathered One. He shows us the way. His bob is majestic and shows us the path. Follow unto his guidance and His example. He knows the one true path. Our Saviour. Our Grace. Our Father Birb has taught us with His humble heart and gentle wing the way of the bob. Let us show Him our reverence and follow in His example. The True Path of the Feathered One. ~ Dimboble-dubabob III

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21 hours ago, Rasbir Singh said:

These graphics cards are old now and they aren't even "exploding" as the thumbnail suggests, their more so just dying. 

"Old"

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 hour ago, crystal6tak said:

Yea... I was a bit disappointed when I got a 1070 (especially when a 1070 is all around slightly weaker compared to 980 ti)... I live in the EU though, and sent mine in at February 24th. Where and when did you send in yours?

I think it was around May or June of last year, mine was to the USA branch.

[Out-of-date] Want to learn how to make your own custom Windows 10 image?

 

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1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

"Old"

Well in the case of the 700 series cards I would say they classify as old, the 900 series not so much but 5 years is about all you can expect from a gpu from either company if you get more than thats lucky in my view. There is a reason they only have ~3 year warranty.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/ Tier Breakdown (My understanding)--1 Godly, 2 Great, 3 Good, 4 Average, 5 Meh, 6 Bad, 7 Awful

 

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13 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Well in the case of the 700 series cards I would say they classify as old, the 900 series not so much but 5 years is about all you can expect from a gpu from either company if you get more than thats lucky in my view. There is a reason they only have ~3 year warranty.

I still use a GT9600 almost everyday. Same with a 5770 in my mac pro. GPUs last a lot longer then 5 years

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

I still use a GT9600 almost everyday. Same with a 5770 in my mac pro. GPUs last a lot longer then 5 years

They can last longer than 5 years, however on average they will not

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/ Tier Breakdown (My understanding)--1 Godly, 2 Great, 3 Good, 4 Average, 5 Meh, 6 Bad, 7 Awful

 

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1 minute ago, AresKrieger said:

They can last longer than 5 years, however on average they will not

Where are you getting these facts?

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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4 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Where are you getting these facts?

Not really a statical fact more an observation and an understanding of how warranties are treated in manufacturing, this could vary in different industries than my own, however in general warranties signify a point in time where failures will often occur significantly more frequently after such time.

 

The idea is you want to limit the number of RMAs to an acceptable % and once this percent ramps up you no longer want to provide replacement products due to the cost incurred, in essence the warranty gives you a good idea how long a manufacturer expects a product to last as they want the warranty to expire prior to that point but also want it to be long enough to seem relevant in marketing efforts, this isn't always the case for example lifetime warranties are a notable exception but its all we can go on besides things like steam statistics which are fairly unreliable.

 

The only way we could tell for sure is via a survey of owners of past cards, then averaging out the life of their cards (DOA included which net 0)

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/ Tier Breakdown (My understanding)--1 Godly, 2 Great, 3 Good, 4 Average, 5 Meh, 6 Bad, 7 Awful

 

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6 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Not really a statical fact more an observation and an understanding of how warranties are treated in manufacturing, this could vary in different industries than my own, however in general warranties signify a point in time where failures will often occur significantly more frequently after such time.

 

The idea is you want to limit the number of RMAs to an acceptable % and once this percent ramps up you no longer want to provide replacement products due to the cost incurred, in essence the warranty gives you a good idea how long a manufacturer expects a product to last as they want the warranty to expire prior to that point but also want it to be long enough to seem relevant in marketing efforts, this isn't always the case for example lifetime warranties are a notable exception but its all we can go on besides things like steam statistics which are fairly unreliable.

 

The only way we could tell for sure is via a survey of owners of past cards, then averaging out the life of their cards (DOA included which net 0)

Right I know how warranties work. I am just saying there are plenty of cards on the market from 5+ years ago. Even AGP cards still work 

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

Right I know how warranties work. I am just saying there are plenty of cards on the market from 5+ years ago. Even AGP cards still work 

True but how many of those cards already failed, I said average for a reason if half of the cards fail prior to 5 years and half fail 5-10 years it ultimately would be an average ~5 years. Also people repair cards so some will stay on the market longer than their original lifespan, regardless I'm not saying cards can't last extreme amounts of time I am merely saying most will not so assume they wont and be happy if they do.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/ Tier Breakdown (My understanding)--1 Godly, 2 Great, 3 Good, 4 Average, 5 Meh, 6 Bad, 7 Awful

 

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They were intended to be used for carrying classified messages for Ethan Hunt

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5 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

The only replacement for my gaming rig is a GTS 250, I kinda need my 780 in order for my PC to function the way I need it to.

Well worst come to worst, get a soldering iron and replace the part. It is really not hard to do, especially that you are looking at making it work, and not a professional job like a machine. You can get kits for real cheap on Amazon. I got one, works fine for the rare task here and there that I might need. Also it is great to replace headphone/headset cable if they break and are not replaceable, or fix wiring work in something. I am not going to claim I am a pro at it, but everything I have done with it has been 100% success. it doesn't look all the time pro-like... maybe I had the iron a bit too hot or not enough, or the technique wasn't the best... but I do it for me. If it works, and the connection is solid enough.. that is all that matters. At worst, I just re do it.

 

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It kinda sucks when this happens, but the reality is if they used better quality parts or put more effort into the design/QC then they already do,  then the price goes up and less people buy resulting in less profit to turn into R+D.  It's the same with white goods and home appliances.     There is a reason military spec costs more but essentially does the same job (or used to).

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It kinda sucks when this happens, but the reality is if they used better quality parts or put more effort into the design/QC then they already do,  then the price goes up and less people buy resulting in less profit to turn into R+D.  It's the same with white goods and home appliances.     There is a reason military spec costs more but essentially does the same job (or used to).

I'm willing to pay the whole $1 more that higher spec inductors would have cost.

Main Gaming PC - i9 10850k @ 5GHz - EVGA XC Ultra 2080ti with Heatkiller 4 - Asrock Z490 Taichi - Corsair H115i - 32GB GSkill Ripjaws V 3600 CL16 OC'd to 3733 - HX850i - Samsung NVME 256GB SSD - Samsung 3.2TB PCIe 8x Enterprise NVMe - Toshiba 3TB 7200RPM HD - Lian Li Air

 

Proxmox Server - i7 8700k @ 4.5Ghz - 32GB EVGA 3000 CL15 OC'd to 3200 - Asus Strix Z370-E Gaming - Oracle F80 800GB Enterprise SSD, LSI SAS running 3 4TB and 2 6TB (Both Raid Z0), Samsung 840Pro 120GB - Phanteks Enthoo Pro

 

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1 hour ago, Hunter259 said:

I'm willing to pay the whole $1 more that higher spec inductors would have cost.

Then you would have a card that would fail at another part but have good inductors and cost you a dollar more.   

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE 

I knew it all along

 

Best of myself(1000th post)

 

Vista

Core i5-8400

8GB DDR4

GTX 1050ti

1TB 7200RPM HDD
MSI H310M PRO-VD

EVGA 450BT

Cooler Master masterbox lite 3.1

Arctic Cat

Core 2 quad q8200

8GB DDR2 ECC

GTX 550ti

1TB 7200RPM HDD

Dell precision t3400 motherboard

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2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Then you would have a card that would fail at another part but have good inductors and cost you a dollar more.   

Ok sure. Lets play this game. With your logic no one should buy higher end components because then something else will fail before it. These inductors are poorly spec'd and are causing premature death of the cards. Most well built computers will last much longer than these cards do.

Main Gaming PC - i9 10850k @ 5GHz - EVGA XC Ultra 2080ti with Heatkiller 4 - Asrock Z490 Taichi - Corsair H115i - 32GB GSkill Ripjaws V 3600 CL16 OC'd to 3733 - HX850i - Samsung NVME 256GB SSD - Samsung 3.2TB PCIe 8x Enterprise NVMe - Toshiba 3TB 7200RPM HD - Lian Li Air

 

Proxmox Server - i7 8700k @ 4.5Ghz - 32GB EVGA 3000 CL15 OC'd to 3200 - Asus Strix Z370-E Gaming - Oracle F80 800GB Enterprise SSD, LSI SAS running 3 4TB and 2 6TB (Both Raid Z0), Samsung 840Pro 120GB - Phanteks Enthoo Pro

 

Super Server - i9 7980Xe @ 4.5GHz - 64GB 3200MHz Cl16 - Asrock X299 Professional - Nvidia Telsa K20 -Sandisk 512GB Enterprise SATA SSD, 128GB Seagate SATA SSD, 1.5TB WD Green (Over 9 years of power on time) - Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2

 

Laptop - 2019 Macbook Pro 16" - i7 - 16GB - 512GB - 5500M 8GB - Thermal Pads and Graphite Tape modded

 

Smart Phones - iPhone X - 64GB, AT&T, iOS 13.3 iPhone 6 : 16gb, AT&T, iOS 12 iPhone 4 : 16gb, AT&T Go Phone, iOS 7.1.1 Jailbroken. iPhone 3G : 8gb, AT&T Go Phone, iOS 4.2.1 Jailbroken.

 

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On 31/03/2018 at 5:20 PM, DrMacintosh said:

granted these are old and reference

Neither are acceptable reasons for letting it go.

 

It's ok it broken because it's just a reference card, you know the one everyone references when designing their own card.

 

Also the cards are hardly old I  have an ati x1650 that still works.

                     ¸„»°'´¸„»°'´ Vorticalbox `'°«„¸`'°«„¸
`'°«„¸¸„»°'´¸„»°'´`'°«„¸Scientia Potentia est  ¸„»°'´`'°«„¸`'°«„¸¸„»°'´

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3 hours ago, Hunter259 said:

Ok sure. Lets play this game. With your logic no one should buy higher end components because then something else will fail before it. These inductors are poorly spec'd and are causing premature death of the cards. Most well built computers will last much longer than these cards do.

It's not a game,  every product ever made will fail at it's weakest point. Which means if they decided to use better quality inductors then they are just shifting the weakest point to some other part.   As I said, if you want military spec products you have to pay for them.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

It's not a game,  every product ever made will fail at it's weakest point. Which means if they decided to use better quality inductors then they are just shifting the weakest point to some other part.   As I said, if you want military spec products you have to pay for them.

Don't know if you watched the Buildzoid video on this but it was quite interesting and informative. Looks like the reference memory VRM design was pushing the line just slightly too close to tolerance on the memory inductors for current rating. A lot of the non-reference boards still used the reference memory VRM design by the looks of it.

 

Original design and original spec they shouldn't have failed, even how close they were running them to maximum rating. I would put this mostly on the AIBs for not properly doing the current calculations on their default OCs and checking it does not exceed component specifications, hindsight shows yes.

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9 hours ago, mr moose said:

It kinda sucks when this happens, but the reality is if they used better quality parts or put more effort into the design/QC then they already do,  then the price goes up and less people buy resulting in less profit to turn into R+D.  It's the same with white goods and home appliances.     There is a reason military spec costs more but essentially does the same job (or used to).

bildzoid talked about cost of cents in this parts. But i guess no one would mind to pay a couple dollars more to have a 980Ti or a Titan that doesn't die on you in 2/3 years.

8 hours ago, v0nn_toaster said:

PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE 

I knew it all along

 

i kind of agree, it makes no sense to saving cents in inferior parts on cards like this that cost a lot of money

.

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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Don't know if you watched the Buildzoid video on this but it was quite interesting and informative. Looks like the reference memory VRM design was pushing the line just slightly too close to tolerance on the memory inductors for current rating. A lot of the non-reference boards still used the reference memory VRM design by the looks of it.

 

Original design and original spec they shouldn't have failed, even how close they were running them to maximum rating. I would put this mostly on the AIBs for not properly doing the current calculations on their default OCs and checking it does not exceed component specifications, hindsight shows yes.

That certainly might be the case,   having worked for a large company brainstorm how to make a product cheaper/faster/more profitable, I can assure people that if Nvidia think they can get away with slightly cheaper components then they will.  For the most part every component should be rated  with a margin of error in mind.  But sometimes that margin of error is too small for a few different reasons. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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3 minutes ago, asus killer said:

bildzoid talked about cost of cents in this parts. But i guess no one would mind to pay a couple dollars more to have a 980Ti or a Titan that doesn't die on you in 2/3 years.

Doesn't the whole card only cost $70 to build? But we are ignoring R+D costs etc. However that wasn't really my point,  the fact remains parts are failing, and if we improve one part then all we do is shift the weakest point to some other part on the board.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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I did just do a sanity check on what buildzoid was saying. He thinks the power delivery for the memory VRMs is from the PCIe slot and that the inductor failure would cause 12V on the output side and essentially a short circuit so we can do some really basic calculations on the power drawn from the PCIe slot.

 

I'm going to use 12A as that would cause failure.

 

12V x 12A = 144W

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the x16 slots in the PCIe spec rated for 75W? If this is actually the case I'm surprised no motherboards were damaged because more than 12A is likely to have been drawn for some of the failure pictures shown, more like 20A.

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