MSI's Facebook representative throws shade at AMD graphics cards [Update]

[Methos]

It's like arguing over a Ferrari and Lambo... Both are fast but one is faster.

 

Kinda funny coming from MSI, they haven't had a good board since Z97/X99 and literally only have one GPU model ever worth buying.

[Drak3]

1 hour ago, AntiTrust said:

AMD cards are pretty bad though. I bought an RX 480 originally for my PC but would get dips down to like 15-20 fps in fallout 4. I wrote a nasty email to ASUS, returned the card to NCIX and got an EVGA GTX 970SSC for the same price and boom everything runs perfect, like magic. 

 

there really is no competition I can see in graphics cards. My experience tells me that there is no use in directly comparing specifications 

My Gaming X RX470 4G hasn't dipped below 45FPS, whereas both my G1 Gaming 1070 and 1080 Armor OC dip to the mid 20s.

This is running them all with a 5930K at 4.5GHz, 850 Evo, and 2133MHz/15-15-15-36 RAM.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

3 hours ago, Ginger_ said:

Personally I just associate ROG, GAMING, AUROS, whatever series with a higher quality card. I mean, you can buy a strix 560 or 1050ti, and same with the other series. That might be their high end gaming series of cards, but they go all the way down to budget products.

Their product line does go all the way down to the bang for your buck cards. But that's not the segment people typically associate these gaming brands and certainly isn't what would be the centre piece at their booths in conventions and tournaments.

 

I'm going to take a word from JJ (from ASUS) back in 2013 during his appearance on the WAN Show. "ROG is the fore leader of design innovation" for ASUS. That generally only happens at the high end. That's not to say innovation can't come from the mid range, but it generally doesn't happen that way. It starts at the high end and trickles down throughout the lineup. 

 

If AMD wants to be taken seriously by these gaming brands, they would need to show these companies they can produce a product that pushes the boundaries rather than just being good enough. There's no point for these companies to pour millions of dollars in R&D into a mid tier product when they can use that money to really make a high end product shine and show the world what is possible. Even if what Nvidia is doing with the GeForce Partner program is anti-competitive, AMD isn't do themselves justice by consistently under-delivering. If you can't keep up, you're just going to be left in the dust one eventually. A rival implementing anti-competiveness measures isn't a excuse for not being competitive in the first place. You earn your market share and you earn your support from board partners.    

[XenosTech]

33 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

My Gaming X RX470 4G hasn't dipped below 45FPS, whereas both my G1 Gaming 1070 and 1080 Armor OC dip to the mid 20s.

This is running them all with a 5930K at 4.5GHz, 850 Evo, and 2133MHz/15-15-15-36 RAM.

Was the same with my 470 and 1070.. dropped more frames with the 1070 than the 470... Come to think of it, I had more driver issues and issues on a whole with the 1070.

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

Was the same with my 470 and 1070.. dropped more frames with the 1070 than the 470... Come to think of it, I had more driver issues and issues on a whole with the 1070.

Asides for overclocking my 1070, I haven't had issues with either Pascal card.

 

Then again, I also refuse to update my Nvidia drivers. No point in fixing what ain't broken.

[DrMacintosh]

#BetterRed

[DrMacintosh]

1 hour ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

You earn your market share and you earn your support from board partners.    

But you earning support from board partners does not allow you to control what those board partners do. 

 

There is no justification for what Nvidia is doing and I'll never buy one of their cards unless they stop what they are doing. They somehow think this is all ok which I just find hilarious. 

[DocSwag]

2 hours ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Unless MSI's Facebook rep is an idiot (a large possibility of that being true) then their badly worded response to Pj Gowtham may tell us something that we don't know.

Although admittedly, that's speculation.  So let me rephrase it.

I think the MSI rep was just dissing AMD. From everything I've seen so far GPP doesn't disallow manufacturers from making AMD cards.

2 hours ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

So, a program that pushes manufactures to not produce cards for the competition that has premium branding/design, thus fooling the average Joe customer isn't anti consumer?

Not saying it isn't. Just that manufacturers aren't banned altogether, they just can't use certain brands.

[captain_to_fire]

9 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

#BetterRed

It reminded me somehow of political slogans. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

19 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

But you earning support from board partners does not allow you to control what those board partners do. 

 

There is no justification for what Nvidia is doing and I'll never buy one of their cards unless they stop what they are doing. They somehow think this is all ok which I just find hilarious. 

I'm not justifying the GeForce Program. People can associate this PR situation as a result of the GeForce Partner Program all they want. At the end of the day, this just looks like a rep from MSI dissing AMD because AMD can't deliver anything that is worthy for MSI to really talk about. If AMD keeps trying to play catch up (arguably failing at that) and continuously be absent at the high end, they're not going to get the support from board partners, even if the GeForce Program never existed. 

[DrMacintosh]

11 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

I'm not justifying the GeForce Program. People can associate this PR situation as a result of the GeForce Partner Program all they want. At the end of the day, this just looks like a rep from MSI dissing AMD because AMD can't deliver anything that is worthy for MSI to really talk about. If AMD keeps trying to play catch up (arguably failing at that) and continuously be absent at the high end, they're not going to get the support from board partners, even if the GeForce Program never existed. 

Well MSI has since backpedaled because:

1.) If you alienate a portion of your sales (yes AMD makes up a good portion of GPU sales) you are going to lose them and MSI can’t say AMD Cards don’t matter and still expect to collect on AMD card sales.

2.) The claims made against AMD by MSI in this FB post are baseless.

[mr moose]

10 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Well MSI has since backpedaled because:

 

 

have they released a statement?

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

2.) The claims made against AMD by MSI in this FB post are baseless.

GPU experience to me is measured at the high end. And as of right now, AMD doesn't have anything that competes to the 1080ti which is "almost" as good as you're gonna get. So I don't see it that way. I'm gonna have to say Nvidia is ahead of the GPU experience. AMD has been out of the game for a long while, been trying to play catch up for the past few years and just haven't made the impact needed to fully revive their image. All they're really banking on at this point is that "they're the good guys compared to Nvidia", and sometimes just being the good guy isn't enough. 

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

GPU experience to me is measured at the high end. And as of right now, AMD doesn't have anything that competes to the 1080ti which is "almost" as good as you're gonna get. So I don't see it that way. I'm gonna have to say Nvidia is ahead of the GPU experience. AMD has been out of the game for a long while, been trying to play catch up for the past few years and just haven't made the impact needed to fully revive their image. All they're really banking on at this point is that "they're the good guys compared to Nvidia", and sometimes just being the good guy isn't enough. 

Indeed, they are not baseless claims. In fact they make perfect sense and are quite self evident.. 

[DrMacintosh]

10 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

GPU experience to me is measured at the high end. And as of right now, AMD doesn't have anything that competes to the 1080ti which is "almost" as good as you're gonna get. So I don't see it that way. I'm gonna have to say Nvidia is ahead of the GPU experience. AMD has been out of the game for a long while, been trying to play catch up for the past few years and just haven't made the impact needed to fully revive their image. All they're really banking on at this point is that "they're the good guys compared to Nvidia", and sometimes just being the good guy isn't enough. 

AMD does not really compete with Nvidia at the high end, the Vega GPUs simply exist to fill in their product lineup. They knew it would not beat the 10 series. 

 

AMD is the mid tier option, the affordable option. That is their image and it’s that image which is really where the bread and butter of PC gaming is. Not you guys here on the forum buying dual 1080Tis. It’s the 1080p gamers with a $200 GPU budget. 

 

An MSI rep saying AMD is bad for that was entirely out of line and clearly wrong and is blatant oversight on the part of whoever runs the MSI FB page. 

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

An MSI rep saying AMD is bad for that was entirely out of line and clearly wrong. 

 

You do realise that someone having a different way of saying something you don't like doesn't actually make them wrong.  It is actually a very accurate appraisal of the current situations.  Every single AMD card on the market has at least one nvidia card that beats it.   Which means if they want to sell as many cards as they can they need to concentrate their efforts on Nvida,  GPP or not.

[sof006]

Not what I wanted to hear coming from a manufacturer that's meant to remain non bias.

[mr moose]

43 minutes ago, sof006 said:

a manufacturer that's meant to remain non bias.

How so?  doesn't the nature of business mean that you take the course of action that provides the best products and consequently the best returns?

[Helly]

No one cares about GPP, no one cares manufacturers go with the program. People still only buy nvidia because nvidia is all that is and will be recommended by everyone. All this crap will blow over and people will forget the GPP even exists. The gaming brands will all be nvidia only and no one will even mention this stuff at all anymore, and just keep buying nvidia.

 

Simple prediction and this is going to happen. Even on this forum. That is why no one is talking about what the GPP really is. Just keep quiet and don't draw more attention to it and it will blow over and everyone will forget and just keep on buying nvidia GPU's. By the time AMD releases an actually competitive or even a better GPU then anything nvidia has to offer, no one will care, recommend or buy them because nvidia is gaming and the best and AMD is not. And so the GPP goals will have been achieved.

 

All this will result in a xx60 for $900-$1000 of course. As that is also one of the goals. AMD cards will be faster/same for half the price of course but its not nvidia so no one will care. Damn i'm so hoping i'm wrong. pretty sure i'm not though. Nvidia is kind of like apple that way, no matter what they do ppl will buy the crap out of them.

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, Helly said:

No one cares about GPP, no one cares manufacturers go with the program. People still only buy nvidia because nvidia is all that is and will be recommended by everyone. All this crap will blow over and people will forget the GPP even exists. The gaming brands will all be nvidia only and no one will even mention this stuff at all anymore, and just keep buying nvidia.

 

Simple prediction and this is going to happen. Even on this forum. That is why no one is talking about what the GPP really is. Just keep quiet and don't draw more attention to it and it will blow over and everyone will forget and just keep on buying nvidia GPU's. By the time AMD releases an actually competitive or even a better GPU then anything nvidia has to offer, no one will care, recommend or buy them because nvidia is gaming and the best and AMD is not. And so the GPP goals will have been achieved.

 

All this will result in a xx60 for $900-$1000 of course. As that is also one of the goals. AMD cards will be faster/same for half the price of course but its not nvidia so no one will care. Damn i'm so hoping i'm wrong. pretty sure i'm not though. Nvidia is kind of like apple that way, no matter what they do ppl will buy the crap out of them.

I think you under estimate the enthusiasts, unlike apple who sell largely to the general public, people who buy GPU's are either enthusiasts who already know what they want and what the current cards do or they are on forums asking which card to buy.   Very few people buy or reccomend a GPU because of brand alone.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Every single AMD card on the market has at least one nvidia card that beats it.   Which means if they want to sell as many cards as they can they need to concentrate their efforts on Nvida,  GPP or not.

Nvidia having a card that beats it really isn't the issue though, if we say an RX 580 and a 1060 is roughly equivalent then the fact that a 1070 exists is objectively irrelevant to a buyer who cannot afford a 1070.

 

That's the failing in only looking at 1080Ti's and then proclaiming AMD has nothing to offer and is inferior, not everyone is a 1080Ti buyer. Nvidia does have the better high end GPU technology and performance but that can only ever matter if you are buying that.

 

It's all a moot point now anyway since nothing is at baseline pricing and almost no stock of anything, I wouldn't recommend buying a GPU at all, buy a console and wait.

[asus killer]

isn't what he said true? aren't Nvidia cards better in general, even in the Polaris range, if you ask 480 vs 1060 people will go "buy the 1060 similar performance less power consumption", is it a lie?

I guess people are jumping on the MSI guy because he said what everyone knows it's true. 

 

 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Nvidia having a card that beats it really isn't the issue though, if we say an RX 580 and a 1060 is roughly equivalent then the fact that a 1070 exists is objectively irrelevant to a buyer who cannot afford a 1070.

 

That's the failing in only looking at 1080Ti's and then proclaiming AMD has nothing to offer and is inferior, not everyone is a 1080Ti buyer. Nvidia does have the better high end GPU technology and performance but that can only ever matter if you are buying that.

 

It's all a moot point now anyway since nothing is at baseline pricing and almost no stock of anything, I wouldn't recommend buying a GPU at all, buy a console and wait.

As I said before, even if a card has only 3 FPS average on another then that card will get recommended more.  That seems to be trend across all forums.   The fact that prices are all over the place only adds to this because when you can't find two shops at the same price, then the recommendations will centre more around performance than MSRP. 

A good example of this is the 580 that tends to get recommended over the 1060 more often (we are only talking 5-10 FPS difference) and people tend to gloss over the cost/power draw arguments. 

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, asus killer said:

isn't what he said true? aren't Nvidia cards better in general, even in the Polaris range, if you ask 480 vs 1060 people will go "buy the 1060 similar performance less power consumption", is it a lie?

I guess people are jumping on the MSI guy because he said what everyone knows it's true. 

 

 

 

Probably not so much because it's true, but more because interpreting it in that way supports their GPP concerns.  And that's a good excuse to sharpen pitchforks.

[asus killer]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Probably not so much because it's true, but more because interpreting it in that way supports their GPP concerns.  And that's a good excuse to sharpen pitchforks.

The MSI guy is an idiot (sorry for that), has no diplomacy. Still at least he's honest. They are put in a position between AMD and Nvidia but it's not his fault it's a duopoly or Nvidia has so much power in the market. That is actually our fault for preferring the better product and AMD's for not making a more compelling product.

Their market (MSI's) is actually very competitive, they aren't the problem.

 

sharpening the pitchforks for the honest dude on the competitive market is stupid. Go after Nvidia if you like.