[UPDATED 2] - Nvidia GPP shows its first victim

[Nena Trinity]

Fuck ASUS, Gigabyte & MSI all of them are sellouts I cannot wait to try ASRock cards if they are in stock. O3O

[JuNex03]

Guys, you might be over exaggerating this issue a bit. The reason why it had no "Aorus" branding was because the Gigabyte *GAMING* Box is supposed to be focused on *GAMERS*. =.=

 

[JuNex03]

[NMS]

Well if Nvidia is taking such an approach, and since I'm not interested in the top-tier cards, AMD - here I come.

[JuNex03]

Wow even MSI?

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/85uw46/msi_removed_all_gaming_branded_amd_cards_from/

[leadeater]

11 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

I don't really see this as a problem unless AIBs have to start choosing sides on who to go with. 

 

Scenario: AIBs try sticking with Nvidia for gaming and AMD for general compute; Both sides start to take their respective niches.

A) Nvidia starts to lose customers that may have purchased Titans or Ti's as AMD is now marketed (and hopefully validated) for compute performance. 

B) AMD products get their own "gaming" branding which can be a good thing for variety. 

C) AMD starts losing enough market share that the graphics division has to close and work towards developing relations with Intel for their integrated graphics. 

 

I hope A is truer than the others, but I think this falls square "on the edge of the line" (if I can make a tennis reference; it's so close to being out that it should be called out) where only consumers can make the choice as far as legality goes. 

I don't have a problem with it only if Nvidia doesn't take over existing top tier branding across all AIBs. If Nvidia wants to fix a perceived branding issue I have no problem with them imposing branding requirements on their products as long as it's new and something they and the AIBs make a deal on.

 

I also take issue with the fact that they are not also enforcing product design requirements to not look like AMD products, it would far more legitimize the branding requirements if this was also done.

 

Even in the enthusiast world brand names like Strix, Auros, Gaming X, Lightning etc all carry with them reputation that these buyers specifically know and look out for when buying or just looking at reviews. There is a wealth of information known about these brands and the products under them which is used when researching products in general so this isn't just an issue for the uninformed masses, it creates issues for everyone, well except Nvidia.

 

How am I supposed to know with the next generation of cards coming out which one is the best, is there a better one coming, how do these relate to each other and also with the previous existing branding. Sure all of these will get addressed over time and we'll get used to it but it's not a problem we should be having in the first place.

 

11 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

I hope A is truer than the others, but I think this falls square "on the edge of the line" (if I can make a tennis reference; it's so close to being out that it should be called out) where only consumers can make the choice as far as legality goes. 

Don't make me go 'John McEnroe' 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[asus killer]

10 hours ago, Humbug said:

Whether we like it or not half the consumers are uneducated about this stuff. We are not the norm. So a typical consumer can see the 'gaming' card tag and assume the 1050ti is better than an rx 580 for gaming. So this is bad for the PC gaming community and bad for AMD.

the box actually is called "RX 580 Gaming Box " it says so in the box, actually it's exactly the same name in the same letters in the same place in the box as used for the nvidia boxes. I don't see how an uneducated buyers would even know that Aorus is better, probably knows better the Gigabyte brand than Aorus.

 

not defending this, still seems a weak argument

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, asus killer said:

the box actually is called "RX 580 Gaming Box " it says so in the box, actually it's exactly the same name in the same letters in the same place in the box as used for the nvidia boxes. I don't see how an uneducated buyers would even know that Aorus is better, probably knows better the Gigabyte brand than Aorus.

 

not defending this, still seems a weak argument

One is carrying the Gigabyte name and the other is carrying the Auros name, it's not really exactly the same. You're right it still has gaming wirtten on it which makes this response from Gigabyte just that much more hilarious lol.

 

Quote

ComputerBase asked Gigabyte why the model with Radeon RX 580 is the only in the series which does not come with the "Aorus" gaming branding.The manufacturer states that the product is not gamer focused.

The product name and marketing very much contradicts that, nothing like a good PR spin .

 

This is a really bad product example to be complaining about though.

[asus killer]

i work a little with marketing, i guess it would have made a lot more sense (in Nvidia scheme) to change the box design and in effect remove the "gaming" word, than just removing the Aorus branding and keeping the rest just "copy paste"

As it is, the well informed will care less, the non informed will even care less and probably know better the Gygabite brand over the Aorus one. It would be funny to have a brand awareness for both over the "uneducated" buyer.

 

If this is the evil master plan of Nvidia in my eyes at least it is just idiotic.

[laminutederire]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

 

 

1 hour ago, asus killer said:

 

It seems logical gpp has something to do with this purely because it's so stupid to make a difference like this that it has to come from a stupid agreement somewhere. There are absolutely no reason to have different branding since they're essentially the same design and same package...

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

It seems logical gpp has something to do with this purely because it's so stupid to make a difference like this that it has to come from a stupid agreement somewhere. There are absolutely no reason to have different branding since they're essentially the same design and same package...

The only difference is the GPU inside of it, you could take out the 1070 from one of the Auros models and put in the RX 580 then bam Auros RX 580 Gaming Box. Literally the only difference is the logo on the box and it being under Gigabyte branding not Auros, zero componentry and function difference. There is nothing Gigabyte can say that will change that truth, I'd rather them just own up to it than try and spin it, I respect companies that don't try and spin the obvious. It won't change the end result but at least I could look at their brand without an underlying feeling of resentment.

 

I don't actually care about this product though, never going to buy something like it.

[Humbug]

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

I don't have a problem with it only if Nvidia doesn't take over existing top tier branding across all AIBs. If Nvidia wants to fix a perceived branding issue I have no problem with them imposing branding requirements on their products as long as it's new and something they and the AIBs make a deal on.

 

I also take issue with the fact that they are not also enforcing product design requirements to not look like AMD products, it would far more legitimize the branding requirements if this was also done.

 

Even in the enthusiast world brand names like Strix, Auros, Gaming X, Lightning etc all carry with them reputation that these buyers specifically know and look out for when buying or just looking at reviews. There is a wealth of information known about these brands and the products under them which is used when researching products in general so this isn't just an issue for the uninformed masses, it creates issues for everyone, well except Nvidia.

exactly.

 

If they had come up with their own sub brand. E.g. Asus ROG green to be Nvidia exclusive nobody would be complaining. But what they are trying to do is highjack existing brand names which other companies have invested in over the years.

 

It's important to stand against this on principle. This is a slippery slope and we don't know how far reaching this strategy will be in the market going forward. In future will partners be prevented from using the same GPU coolers? Will monitor manufacturers be prevented from using the same panels on freesync and g-sync versions, will laptop makers be forced to make their flagships Nvidia only while handicapping AMD parts (e.g. by including single Channel RAM)?  

[Humbug]

Nvidia Has chosen a very opportune time to roll out GPP. Right now both AMD and Nvidia are easily selling out every single GPU that they can manufacture. So the partners are competing hard for limited supply.

 

Therefore anybody who does not sign up with GPP right now will have even more problems getting allocation. They are desperate for stock. So they have limited negotiatation power, Nvidia holds all the cards. They feel forced to sign up.

 

And Right now all AMD cards too will easily sell out despite GPP.

 

But this will not last forever. The mining boom will plateau, fabrication capacity will increase. And there will be competition once again in the GPU market. Partners will be competing again to come out with the best coolers, the best pricing etc. And when that Happens is when AMD is going to really get hit by being locked out of these big known brands.

 

So this is a long term play by Nvidia. They know Vega is no threat anyway for now. This is a long term game to try and neutralize future AMD threats on next gen nodes starting with Navi. That as well as the Intel-AMD partnership

seems to be what Nvidia is afraid of.

[Misanthrope]

Let me tell you the worst part of all of this: It will work.

 

I'm sure AMD just won't be able to come back with a decent product it looks like they might slide down further behind Nvidia for the time being since they might need to rework their architecture from the ground up and just don't have the resources to go around bribing devs and getting better optimization so their next gen products will still be more of the same:

 

1) Competitive vs Nvidia on the mid-range while noticeable more power hungry

2) Not very competitive in the high end while being significantly more power hungry

3) Somewhat competitive in the low end.

 

The problem is that while Nvidia has the performance crown on 2) they can really leverage that into sales for 1) and 3). AMD's best hope is that cryptos stay strong since that will net them big wins for a while longer but well that problem also further takes them out of the public eye for gamers where they were already always a distant second place. Nvidia knows this and they seem to be betting on cryptos dying out soonish so they want to completely kill AMD's public perception among gamers now while they can.

 

This is rather sad: I really want to stop supporting Nvidia products but it doesn't looks like I'll be able to.

[Carclis]

4 hours ago, asus killer said:

the box actually is called "RX 580 Gaming Box " it says so in the box, actually it's exactly the same name in the same letters in the same place in the box as used for the nvidia boxes. I don't see how an uneducated buyers would even know that Aorus is better, probably knows better the Gigabyte brand than Aorus.

 

not defending this, still seems a weak argument

I know you're not supporting the GPP but just know that Aorus is very much distinguished as the high end for Gigabyte. That's why it has it's own Aorus website just like Asus have their ROG page. What if this move means more than just branding? In the other thread I pointed out that MSI has gutted the cooler for AMD versions.

 

[laminutederire]

31 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Let me tell you the worst part of all of this: It will work.

 

I'm sure AMD just won't be able to come back with a decent product it looks like they might slide down further behind Nvidia for the time being since they might need to rework their architecture from the ground up and just don't have the resources to go around bribing devs and getting better optimization so their next gen products will still be more of the 

It won't work on the long term though. Either amd crushes them soon with a new gen, and Nvidia will get exposed for the jerks they're and their gpp could even reverse itself in favour of amd. They'll have to pull an Intel to prevent that and it'll cost them quite decently to bribe oem not to put others gpu. Or amd can't stay afloat, Intel takes over Radeon. They get enemies from both amd and Intel, and they lose on the leverage front because you can't build a system with just a gpu, you need cpus and mobo that aib and oem will work on with both enemies of Nvidia.

Being jerks leaves marks for long term trust and when the trend will reverse (and it will at some point) they'll end up with a form of vengeance of everyone else.

That move only makes sense in short to medium term.

[Jito463]

21 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I dunno, call me an Nvidia fanboy but i've been more pissed at AMD's Radeon group for selling all their cards to miners while ignoring the core gaming audience they've always focused on

Except that AMD doesn't sell to miners, they sell to resellers (for their reference cards) and to AIB's, who may then sell to miners.  Yes, AMD pushed the mining stuff in their marketing and drivers, but that's not the same as directly selling them.

16 hours ago, Sierra Fox said:

I've always seen NVIDIA as the gaming option and AMD as the workstation option.

How so?  Personally, I love my R9 390 still, it plays everything I throw at it.  Mind you, I'd like to upgrade (been strongly considering an RX Vega 56), but not while prices are high.

[Misanthrope]

15 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

It won't work on the long term though. Either amd crushes them soon with a new gen, and Nvidia will get exposed for the jerks they're and their gpp could even reverse itself in favour of amd. They'll have to pull an Intel to prevent that and it'll cost them quite decently to bribe oem not to put others gpu. Or amd can't stay afloat, Intel takes over Radeon. They get enemies from both amd and Intel, and they lose on the leverage front because you can't build a system with just a gpu, you need cpus and mobo that aib and oem will work on with both enemies of Nvidia.

Being jerks leaves marks for long term trust and when the trend will reverse (and it will at some point) they'll end up with a form of vengeance of everyone else.

That move only makes sense in short to medium term.

When it's the last time AMD crushed anyone at anything?

 

Must be like 15 years since they were really able to completely outclass intel or ati was able to outclass Nvidia but honestly, those days are long gone.

 

Don't get me wrong I agree with the rest of your statement: if something was to happen to Nvidia being fucking jerks would cost them dearly and they would have next to no sympathy from many of their customers. Yes it would possibly be their undoing since jerks usually double down when cornered so they're likely to become bigger jerks over the years.

 

But realistically speaking, I don't see AMD becoming that competitive vs Nvidia. Long term if something major happens, they might be able to come back to "crush" them in like 7 to 10 years from now but they're not getting back up that easily. At best they can do a repeat of Zen: much needed improvement that brings them back into a close second place instead of a distant, irrelevant second place like they were before. Definitive wins in price-to-performance and such but that's just not nearly enough to undo years upon years of Nvidia damage.

 

I guess we will see but I'd say they're 2 or 3 generations of GPU away from even beginning to crawl back, I hope to be proven wrong on this. I just think that a videogame industry collapse is far more likely to bring down Nvidia than an AMD comeback.

[TopHatProductions115]

4 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

When it's the last time AMD crushed anyone at anything?

 

Must be like 15 years since they were really able to completely outclass intel or ati was able to outclass Nvidia but honestly, those days are long gone.

 

Don't get me wrong I agree with the rest of your statement: if something was to happen to Nvidia being fucking jerks would cost them dearly and they would have next to no sympathy from many of their customers. Yes it would possibly be their undoing since jerks usually double down when cornered so they're likely to become bigger jerks over the years.

 

But realistically speaking, I don't see AMD becoming that competitive vs Nvidia. Long term if something major happens, they might be able to come back to "crush" them in like 7 to 10 years from now but they're not getting back up that easily. At best they can do a repeat of Zen: much needed improvement that brings them back into a close second place instead of a distant, irrelevant second place like they were before. Definitive wins in price-to-performance and such but that's just not nearly enough to undo years upon years of Nvidia damage.

 

I guess we will see but I'd say they're 2 or 3 generations of GPU away from even beginning to crawl back, I hope to be proven wrong on this. I just think that a videogame industry collapse is far more likely to bring down Nvidia than an AMD comeback.

Then we need a 4th party. A competitor in both the CPU and the GPU market (similar to AMD - unlike Intel and nVIDIA).

[Okjoek]

To hell with "gamer" brands. Ugly AF.

[Misanthrope]

20 minutes ago, TopHatProductions115 said:

Then we need a 4th party. A competitor in both the CPU and the GPU market (similar to AMD - unlike Intel and nVIDIA).

That'd be nice yes. I'm assuming someone like Samsung could forceable take the fight directly to them but well they might argue that they're already doing that and that you should try their gaming products in the form of mobile phones

[kladzen]

6 hours ago, JuNex03 said:

Guys, you might be over exaggerating this issue a bit. The reason why it had no "Aorus" branding was because the Gigabyte *GAMING* Box is supposed to be focused on *GAMERS*. =.=

 

Have you read the follow up on this?? People have found out the manual and other items contains "gaming" and so on... and this is for the "generic" box.. the issue is they have moved/transfered name but forgot to remove all the evidence in the manuals an such explaning it's a GAMING box an gaming focused.. ON A FUCKING GENERIC BOX.. that USED TO BE / IS the exact same as their "gaming brand" "aorus",,

 

You dont see an issue here??

[Ryujin2003]

I checked the MSI website and still see AMD GamingX products... I'll be freaking pissed if they go away. I know nvidia makes better GPUs.. But this really doesn't make me want to switch to them. If this is actually what they do, then they are going to do one of two things:

 

1. Piss off those who have AMD cards, and prevent them from switching because they disagree with nvidia tactics.

2. Convince those who aren't educated into purchasing nvidia because those will have the "gaming" marketing tags.... Man.. This 1050 is gaming, must be better than the AMD "non-gaming"...

 

I mean their GPU's are better. They always have better support form AIB... Like seriously, what more do they need? I feel like they are trying to monopolize and make it look legal...

[laminutederire]

1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

When it's the last time AMD crushed anyone at anything?

 

Must be like 15 years since they were really able to completely outclass intel or ati was able to outclass Nvidia but honestly, those days are long gone.

 

Don't get me wrong I agree with the rest of your statement: if something was to happen to Nvidia being fucking jerks would cost them dearly and they would have next to no sympathy from many of their customers. Yes it would possibly be their undoing since jerks usually double down when cornered so they're likely to become bigger jerks over the years.

 

But realistically speaking, I don't see AMD becoming that competitive vs Nvidia. Long term if something major happens, they might be able to come back to "crush" them in like 7 to 10 years from now but they're not getting back up that easily. At best they can do a repeat of Zen: much needed improvement that brings them back into a close second place instead of a distant, irrelevant second place like they were before. Definitive wins in price-to-performance and such but that's just not nearly enough to undo years upon years of Nvidia damage.

 

I guess we will see but I'd say they're 2 or 3 generations of GPU away from even beginning to crawl back, I hope to be proven wrong on this. I just think that a videogame industry collapse is far more likely to bring down Nvidia than an AMD comeback.

Well Intel wants a piece of that cake and they are faaaaaaaaaaaaaar more ruthless than AMD and probably more than Nvidia as well. If RTG falls too much that'll be an air gap for Intel to come in in force and that won't be nice for Nvidia and us.

As for AMD success I'd say it could be possible as well. With the emergence of new techs like ray tracing and everything, that requires some significant rework that could propell them into the abyss as much as into the spotlight!

[FratStar]

23 hours ago, BroliviaWilde said:

It must be that GPP means at least one gaming brand is exclusive for Nvidia products, not all gaming brands.  For example, Gigabyte has those external GPU enclosures: Aorus gtx 1080 gaming box and Aorus gtx 1070 gaming box, and now they have the RX 580 gaming box.  Notice the lack fo Auros for AMD?

So maybe this isn't as bad as first thought about, but what it appears to be is Nvidia grabbing the "premium" gaming brand from each vendor and leaving that vendor to come up with somethign else for AMD GPUs.

 

I got that tidbit from https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/03/20/new-clues-suggest-msi-and-gigabyte-are-aligned-with-geforce-partner-program/#33119cdd4c6a

Which would imply to a consumer that it isn't a part of the "premium" brand therefore influencing purchasing decisions.