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DeagleMaster69

I feel electricity on my case.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
7 hours ago, DragonTamer1 said:

Go to the hardware store and buy a cheap multi meter. Brand doesn't matter, it can be $10 or it can be $100, doesn't matter for what we are doing as long as it reads DC and AC (most do).

 

Test the socket your computer is plugged into. Test from hot (the small vertical slot) to the neutral (the long vertical slot) and to ground (the small one at the bottom). Assuming you live in North America, you should read 120V AC from hot to neutral and hot to ground with no reading from neutral to ground. If you don't, your outlet is incorrectly wired.

 

If your readings are correct then you should take a measurement from where you feel electricity to ground. If you are even feeling the electricity then the voltage is a minimum of 25 to 30V AC. You won't feel the DC voltage until 60 to 70V (you will feel it sooner if you are very sweaty).

 

If the voltage you are feeling feels like buzzing then it is AC and indicates a fault with your power supply. I want to keep from saying anything else until I get an actual understanding of the type of voltage at play and how much of it there is.

I tried two different PSUs and the issu was still there and it feels more like small sticks.

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5 hours ago, DeagleMaster69 said:

I tried two different PSUs and the issu was still there and it feels more like small sticks.

Then you don't have ground on the PC wich you need.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

Then you don't have ground on the PC wich you need.

What do you mean? I even tried the PSU outside the case and I could still feel it.

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Neutral and Ground are the same thing, the only difference being that ground is a backup and not supposed to be used.  So something is trying to use the ground and is going through the frame of the case.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
47 minutes ago, Psittac said:

Neutral and Ground are the same thing, the only difference being that ground is a backup and not supposed to be used.  So something is trying to use the ground and is going through the frame of the case.

Ok, but what should I do? I live in Norway and we use 240v outlets if that helps. Also my mobo doesn't have pongs on the io shield it has some sort of metal wrapping. Its a msi z170m mortar btw.

20180314_153745.jpg

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10 hours ago, DeagleMaster69 said:

I tried two different PSUs and the issu was still there and it feels more like small sticks.

By small sticks do you mean pins and needles?


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5 minutes ago, DeagleMaster69 said:

Yes, kinda

That is pointing towards AC current leaking from somewhere. The only place it could be coming from is the power supply as that's the only place on the system that should be using AC, especially at a voltage you can feel. It is very strongly pointing to an issue with your outlet but I still can't say for certain.

 

I would still recommend getting a cheap multi-meter to diagnose the problem. Right now we might as well be using a glow stick and a weegee board.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 minutes ago, DragonTamer1 said:

That is pointing towards AC current leaking from somewhere. The only place it could be coming from is the power supply as that's the only place on the system that should be using AC, especially at a voltage you can feel. It is very strongly pointing to an issue with your outlet but I still can't say for certain.

 

I would still recommend getting a cheap multi-meter to diagnose the problem. Right now we might as well be using a glow stick and a weegee board.

Than it is quite wierd that im able too feel it with the psu outside the case and that it is the same issue with two PSUs. As I have previously stated I can not feel it when I tuch it with my finger, but when I came in contact with it with my upper lip I could feel it. Also if you could take a look at the post where I posted the 4 pictures that would be very helpful.

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We are looking at a problem that is only speculation. Without a proper tool to analyze and find the cause of the problem there is only so much we can do.

 

Move the computer to a different outlet and check again. The signs are pointing towards an issue with your outlet. I would suggest any other outlet in the house, specifically not one on the same breaker/fuse. Make sure you are not providing a path to ground when you try this, 240V is not forgiving and will try to kill you. If it is 240 then it could still be possible to feel something without a path to ground, though very unlikely.

 

The only thing that could cause the issue with two different power supplies while the system is off is faulty wiring in the walls. If you are feeling electricity while the switch is off in the back then your house is improperly wired and your hot and neutral are reversed. The switch on the back of the PSU only disconnects the hot, but if they were reversed you could still feel voltage on the case.

 

As for when the power was removed, I'm chalking this up to a placebo as there is literally nothing in the system that can produce enough voltage to feel with your fingers unless you are drenched in salt water (sweat). You mentioned testing with your lip? Don't, your lip is more electrically conductive and you would be able to feel much lower voltages than you otherwise would be able to. If you are doing that, any residual energy in the power supply could be felt even though it is harmless and should be undetectable. If you want to be sure, unplug the PSU and hold the power button down for 5 seconds to drain it. The only thing left with power should be the CMOS battery.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
41 minutes ago, DragonTamer1 said:

We are looking at a problem that is only speculation. Without a proper tool to analyze and find the cause of the problem there is only so much we can do.

 

Move the computer to a different outlet and check again. The signs are pointing towards an issue with your outlet. I would suggest any other outlet in the house, specifically not one on the same breaker/fuse. Make sure you are not providing a path to ground when you try this, 240V is not forgiving and will try to kill you. If it is 240 then it could still be possible to feel something without a path to ground, though very unlikely.

 

The only thing that could cause the issue with two different power supplies while the system is off is faulty wiring in the walls. If you are feeling electricity while the switch is off in the back then your house is improperly wired and your hot and neutral are reversed. The switch on the back of the PSU only disconnects the hot, but if they were reversed you could still feel voltage on the case.

 

As for when the power was removed, I'm chalking this up to a placebo as there is literally nothing in the system that can produce enough voltage to feel with your fingers unless you are drenched in salt water (sweat). You mentioned testing with your lip? Don't, your lip is more electrically conductive and you would be able to feel much lower voltages than you otherwise would be able to. If you are doing that, any residual energy in the power supply could be felt even though it is harmless and should be undetectable. If you want to be sure, unplug the PSU and hold the power button down for 5 seconds to drain it. The only thing left with power should be the CMOS battery.

Thank you for your help. I could defenetly feel something when the pc is completly ubplugged when I test with my lip but when I did the same thing now I couldn't. I tried it with a different socket in a different room on another circuit. I dont feel anything with my finger in any of the scenarios. I have not tested anything with just the psu switch off so I'm not sure wher you got that from. Also could you take a look at the post with the 4 pictures? And lastly if I don't have the possibility to check anything with a proper tool do you think I should be worried?

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@DeagleMaster69

It's typical in a switch mode power supply, like a PC's, for the mains supply to be connected to earth (the chassis, which is supposed to be earthed) trough some small capacitors, called Y-capacitors, in order to reduce RFI.

 

When the chassis is not properly earthed for whatever reason, you're essentially touching live mains trough a small capacitor when you touch the case. The capacitance will allow a tiny amount of AC current to pass and this is what you feel. It should not be dangerous to you (*) or the PC, but it does indicate some kind of earthing fault in your electrical installation.

 

The reason you feel it more in some specific spot is probably just the metal being exposed from under the paint in that specific spot.

 

(*)  Technically, it could become dangerous should one of the Y capacitors ever fail short circuit. Without the case being earthed that would result in the entire case becoming live. Y capacitors, however, are supposed to fail open circuit and never short, but I guess never say never.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
25 minutes ago, Unimportant said:

@DeagleMaster69

It's typical in a switch mode power supply, like a PC's, for the mains supply to be connected to earth (the chassis, which is supposed to be earthed) trough some small capacitors, called Y-capacitors, in order to reduce RFI.

 

When the chassis is not properly earthed for whatever reason, you're essentially touching live mains trough a small capacitor when you touch the case. The capacitance will allow a tiny amount of AC current to pass and this is what you feel. It should not be dangerous to you (*) or the PC, but it does indicate some kind of earthing fault in your electrical installation.

 

The reason you feel it more in some specific spot is probably just the metal being exposed from under the paint in that specific spot.

 

(*)  Technically, it could become dangerous should one of the Y capacitors ever fail short circuit. Without the case being earthed that would result in the entire case becoming live. Y capacitors, however, are supposed to fail open circuit and never short, but I guess never say never.

So you think that I should just not worry? Also my case is a phanteks enthoo evolv matx with an acrylic side panel if that helps.

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1 hour ago, DeagleMaster69 said:

So you think that I should just not worry? Also my case is a phanteks enthoo evolv matx with an acrylic side panel if that helps.

Either way, the problem is with your electrical installation - the socket is not properly earthed, not with the PC.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 minutes ago, Unimportant said:

Either way, the problem is with your electrical installation - the socket is not properly earthed, not with the PC.

Thats wierd since I have tried different sockets and I we change a lot of the wiring in my house a couple of years ago. If the problem is with the PC, do you think I should worry?

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12 hours ago, Psittac said:

Neutral and Ground are the same thing, the only difference being that ground is a backup and not supposed to be used.  So something is trying to use the ground and is going through the frame of the case.

 

11 hours ago, DeagleMaster69 said:

Ok, but what should I do? I live in Norway and we use 240v outlets if that helps. Also my mobo doesn't have pongs on the io shield it has some sort of metal wrapping. Its a msi z170m mortar btw.

 

 

If you are on 240 then thing's are different. One prong is 120v and the other prong is 120v in an opposite phase, then the third should be a ground which is only for safety.  There should be no power going through your case frame at any point if nothing is wrong.  I can't give any answers just putting what I know out there.

 

To the best of my understanding, what is happening is power is going to your case where it shouldn't be and when you touch it you are grounding one leg of the 240v through your body to the floor, it's probably only a small leak that or you are at this time a poor conductor as you aren't grounded well.  If you were touching something like a copper water pipe IE: a faucet and were to touch the same spot on your case you'd probably get a full 120v shock, not dangerous if you can let go but it hurt's.  If you somehow got the full 240v that would be a little different and rather dangerous.  I would get this taken care of, though I can't give you any further advice as I'm not sure what's going on.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
10 hours ago, Psittac said:

 

 

If you are on 240 then thing's are different. One prong is 120v and the other prong is 120v in an opposite phase, then the third should be a ground which is only for safety.  There should be no power going through your case frame at any point if nothing is wrong.  I can't give any answers just putting what I know out there.

 

To the best of my understanding, what is happening is power is going to your case where it shouldn't be and when you touch it you are grounding one leg of the 240v through your body to the floor, it's probably only a small leak that or you are at this time a poor conductor as you aren't grounded well.  If you were touching something like a copper water pipe IE: a faucet and were to touch the same spot on your case you'd probably get a full 120v shock, not dangerous if you can let go but it hurt's.  If you somehow got the full 240v that would be a little different and rather dangerous.  I would get this taken care of, though I can't give you any further advice as I'm not sure what's going on.

Ok. But I found out that we use 220v and not 240v if that makes any difference. Also if it is only a small leake does it have the potential to hurt any of my components? I think that the can also feel a small amount coming from the motherboard mounts in the case, but I am sure that all the mounting screws are insalled correctly. Btw my case is a phantek enthoo evolv matx with an acrylic side panel.

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14 hours ago, DeagleMaster69 said:

Ok. But I found out that we use 220v and not 240v if that makes any difference. 

No difference.

 

I'm out of this conversation.  There's too much speculation as to what the issue is to confidently tell you that your PC is safe or not.  You need to buy a tool to check to see if your Earth ground is good or call an electrician.  This has already been suggested a number of times.

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
45 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

No difference.

 

I'm out of this conversation.  There's too much speculation as to what the issue is to confidently tell you that your PC is safe or not.  You need to buy a tool to check to see if your Earth ground is good or call an electrician.  This has already been suggested a number of times.

 

Ok. Im sorry for the confusion. Can you just tell me if you think its likely or not that my pc will keep working from the info you have? I have anxiety so something like this is making my life a living hell.

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23 hours ago, Psittac said:

If you are on 240 then thing's are different. One prong is 120v and the other prong is 120v in an opposite phase, then the third should be a ground which is only for safety. 

Only in the US.

For the Rest of the World, your statement is just totally false and couldn't be further from the truth.

 

And he stated:

Quote

I live in Norway and we use 240v outlets if that helps. 

 

That's NOT the US!
That's not a 110VAC area, that's Europe. And what you said about the voltage ONLY APPLIES TO THE US, Japan and other 110VAC areas. Europe is not a 110VAC Area,´!!

 

We have here 230VAC with one Phase, Neutral and Ground, not two as you stated.

The high voltage we have here is 3 Phase and 400V (AFAIR 60° phase shift)

 

And that is true for most countrys in the world, that have 230VAC (+/-10V), those have 1 Phase, Neutral and Ground.


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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4 hours ago, DeagleMaster69 said:

Ok. Im sorry for the confusion. Can you just tell me if you think its likely or not that my pc will keep working from the info you have? I have anxiety so something like this is making my life a living hell.

YOU (might) have a life threatening issue in your house!

 

What the hell are you expecting us to tell you?! 
You absolutely have to check if ground is present!! 

And With the tingling sensation you are mentioning, its highly likely that it is not. And that is an issue, because it can happen that you get 230VAC on a case from something that will kill yourself.

 

Why don't you just buy a tool or call an electrician?!
Why waste our time and risk YOUR LIFE with this shit.

 

Its no joke to not have earth present...


"Hell is full of good meanings, but Heaven is full of good works"

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