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CommandMan7

Gaming misinformation about Mining?

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1 hour ago, CommandMan7 said:

We were having a civilized discussion here until you showed up and started arguing as to why arguing is pointless. You're not contributing to this discussion except for stirring people up. You do realize you're the very person you're talking about when you say "nobody will really consider the other side as all they want is to get those sweet reputation accounts whilst attacking others with the same old same old arguments", right?

 

Why are you so passionately attacking others for deciding to have a discussion about mining and gaming when you yourself say it doesn't matter?

 

If you aren't going to contribute to the original discussion you should leave. You haven't presented any arguments for or against what was proposed in the OP. All you've done is criticize others for having a "pointless" discussion.

 

Try not to crawl completely under the protection of the victim blanket yet.   You are no different than anyone currently mining alternate currencies that your thread sets out to target simply because that's the part of the market that you are okay with attacking.  Notice, you've modified your position into a safer stance since creating this thread.

 

If you weren't so biased, you would have noticed that @Princess Cadence's response was to @AluminiumTech's comment in which he called miners "bad guys" and gamers "good guys".  Amazing how you didn't notice that tid bit of "passionate attacking", but then again, I get it.  It supports your very confused cause.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, asus killer said:

not an expert here, still the gpus aren't used just for mining are they? they are also used to track transactions, so the OP is misleading the conversation.

Even if there were no more mining to do on any coin (that's the other problem i have with this, there seems to surface coins like crazy, catcoin and whatever, every day nonstop someone wants to get rich quick by releasing a new currency) then you had the transactions, that will only get worst and worst if the adoption of cryptocurrencies gets more mature, imagine every single little transaction in the world based on cryptocoins (going to the supermarket to buy toilet paper), there would be no electricity in the world to compute them all.

 

as to the edited part it fails to account if bitcoin fails, if it's no longer the top of the technology, if it crashes for some reason, there is a space to be occupied for another coins and so on. The actual point this days of cypto is that with every new coin there are advances and in fact the old coins less advanced are dommed to be replaced, it's the all premisse of crytpo. So no, the OP explanation makes no sense to me.

Mining and tracking transactions are one and the same. All that mining really is for most cryptocurrencies is finding a number that causes the hash of a ledger (aka list of transactions) to have a certain # of zeroes in the front. This is an excellent video on the subject:

 

You are correct that the existing cryptocurrencies will eventually be replaced, but they will be replaced by cryptocurrencies that don't require GPU's to verify transactions. By inflating existing currencies, we will be accelerating their downfall.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, done12many2 said:

 

Try not to crawl completely under the protection of the victim blanket yet.   You are no different than anyone currently mining alternate currencies that your thread sets out to target simply because that's the part of the market that you are okay with attacking.  Notice, you've modified your position into a safer stance since creating this thread.

 

If you weren't so biased, you would have noticed that @Princess Cadence's response was to @AluminiumTech's comment in which he called miners "bad guys" and gamers "good guys".  Amazing how you didn't notice that tid bit of "passionate attacking", but then again, I get it.  It supports your very confused cause.

I responded as I did because I believe PrincessCadence was not contributing to the original conservation. This thread isn't targeting anyone, it's supposed to be a discussion about if boycotting mining helps or hurts. It's unclear what you mean by "part of the market i'm ok with attacking". As for my stance, yes, it has changed as the discussion has brought important points to light. Unsure as to why this matters. 

 

Passionate attacking perhaps isn't the most clear wording. What I meant was that PrincessCadence was obviously very involved and intent on what they were saying, and continually repeated the "it doesn't matter" point in a way that did not contribute to the conservation.

 

As for Aluminiumtech's comment, the blanket statement of "miners bad, gamers good" is obviously not true. I am trying to come at this discussion from the viewpoint of how can we increase the supply of GPU's available to gamers. Miners are not the problem, nor are Gamers. The base of the problem is the supply of GPU's relative to the demand of Cryptocurrency. 

 

Thank you for pointing that comment out. I admit that there are biases involved that originally led me to regard that comment as unimportant, but you have a very good point that it isn't fair to pick on exclusively PrincessCadence without acknowledging the absurdity of Aluminumtech's comment. Fundamentally in relation to Aluminumtech's comment I agree with PrincessCadence, I just disagree with the way they went about expressing that view. 

 

As OP my goal is not to push an agenda or pit one side against another. I want to have a discussion about the effectiveness of Gamers boycotting cryptocurrencies.


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1 hour ago, CommandMan7 said:

I responded as I did because I believe PrincessCadence was not contributing to the original conservation. This thread isn't targeting anyone, it's supposed to be a discussion about if boycotting mining helps or hurts. It's unclear what you mean by "part of the market i'm ok with attacking". As for my stance, yes, it has changed as the discussion has brought important points to light. Unsure as to why this matters. 

 

Passionate attacking perhaps isn't the most clear wording. What I meant was that PrincessCadence was obviously very involved and intent on what they were saying, and continually repeated the "it doesn't matter" point in a way that did not contribute to the conservation.

 

As for Aluminiumtech's comment, the blanket statement of "miners bad, gamers good" is obviously not true. I am trying to come at this discussion from the viewpoint of how can we increase the supply of GPU's available to gamers. Miners are not the problem, nor are Gamers. The base of the problem is the supply of GPU's relative to the demand of Cryptocurrency. 

 

Thank you for pointing that comment out. I admit that there are biases involved that originally led me to disregard that comment as unimportant, but you have a very good point that it isn't fair to pick on exclusively PrincessCadence without acknowledging the absurdity of Aluminumtech's comment. Fundamentally in relation to Aluminumtech's comment I agree with PrincessCadence, I just disagree with the way they went about expressing that view. 

 

As OP my goal is not to push an agenda or pit one side against another. I want to have a discussion about the effectiveness of Gamers boycotting cryptocurrencies.

 

Most excellent.  Thanks for correcting the course of this thread.  More thread owners should take on this responsibility.  

 

Moving on.  While I don't necessarily want mining to die, the impact on my finances from it doing so will be small.  Like you, I have recouped the costs of hardware purchased with the intent of mining.  For me, mining was a gateway into trading on the exchanges for me.   I didn't want to pull a lot of money out of savings in order to begin trading, so I mined it.  

 

If mining dies tomorrow, I will be sad, but I'll be far from broke.  xD

 

Edit:

Speaking of which, BTC has fallen over $450 in the last few minutes.  Keep an eye on it if you trade.  :)


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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

Most excellent.  Thanks for correcting the course of this thread.  More thread owners should take on this responsibility.  

 

Moving on.  While I don't necessarily want mining to die, the impact on my finances from it doing so will be small.  Like you, I have recouped the costs of hardware purchased with the intent of mining.  For me, mining was a gateway into trading on the exchanges for me.   I didn't want to pull a lot of money out of savings in order to begin trading, so I mined it.  

 

If mining dies tomorrow, I will be sad, but I'll be far from broke.  xD

I am similarly involved in mining so I don't need to use actual money for exchange purposes. When it comes to higher risk investments (my stocks on Robinhood, Steam market items, my Ripple trading) I approach it as a hobby rather than a money making proposition. It's kind of like the recent LMG video:

People go to these auctions and pay far over the fair market price because it's enjoyable. Maybe they'll find a gem, but 90% of the time it's a loss. I approach all these things with the expectation that I'm going to lose it all, and anything better than that is a welcome surprise.  

 

I would like to believe, even though I have no evidence for this, that most people who mine when their gaming PC is not in use are in a similar situation. 

 

As for the core argument from earlier, perhaps somebody could set up a mining pool that automatically takes its mining reward and sells it onto the exchanges below market price in an attempt to force prices lower. It'd be a kind of "charity" that people could do to actively force prices, and therefore profitability, lower to the point where GPU mining is no longer feasible.

 


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35 minutes ago, CommandMan7 said:

The base of the problem is the supply of GPU's relative to the demand of Cryptocurrency. 

 

this is not true, the base of the problem is in fact the cryptocurrency, because it is volatile, it's been in the past and it will in the future, and no one wants to serve a market that can disappear in a moment and be back in the next, and worst when they go away they flood the market with millions of used GPU's. No company will ever plan production and sales for this kind of costumers. Let alone miners not caring less about brand loyalty.

If miners used their gpu's as gamers do, i'm sure demand would increase. Not even RAM shortage would be a problem, because you're willing to pay so much you'd be the first to get the RAM.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 minutes ago, asus killer said:

this is not true, the base of the problem is in fact the cryptocurrency, because it is volatile, it's been in the past and it will in the future, and no one wants to serve a market that can disappear in a moment and be back in the next, and worst when they go away they flood the market with millions of used GPU's. No company will ever plan production and sales for this kind of costumers. Let alone miners not caring less about brand loyalty.

If miners used their gpu's as gamers do, i'm sure demand would increase. Not even RAM shortage would be a problem, because you're willing to pay so much you'd be the first to get the RAM.

That's a good point, you've pretty much listed the reason why there's a continual GPU shortage without manufacturers stepping in to increase supply.

This is the base problem of my "base problem".


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The problem with the premise is that it's a game of whack-a-mole. As mentioned in other posts, even if you ruin one crypto by driving the difficulty too high, people will just look elsewhere for the next big thing. The only way to get mining to stop is for governments to either regulate it or make it illegal.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
10 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

The problem with the premise is that it's a game of whack-a-mole. As mentioned in other posts, even if you ruin one crypto by driving the difficulty too high, people will just look elsewhere for the next big thing. The only way to get mining to stop is for governments to either regulate it or make it illegal.

But, the next big thing will very likely not be proof-of-work, but instead proof-of-stake. This takes GPU mining out of the picture entirely. The solution proposed in OP will hasten the arrival of proof-of-stake cryptocurrencies. 


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19 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 

I mine as supplemental income to my retirement check. @Princess Cadence

19 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 

I mine as supplemental income to my retirement check.  There are tons of use doing the same thing.  

While you are partially correct about mining being a hobby, for me it's a bit more than that.   Trust me when I say that I am VERY far from being a teenager who only pays for his "expensive hobby".

 

Judging by your comments, I think you choose to see what you want, which is perfectly fine.  I am definitely surprised by your one-sided approach to this discussion, hence my previous "wow".

 

I game too and like @Princess Cadence is saying, there's nothing wrong with me doing as I please with my hardware.

How old are you ?And even in retirement you can work part time.A door greater at walmart starts at 11 a hour or higher depending your state.Or delivery driver for amazon and make around 200 in 3 hours depending where you live and zipcodes you take.They pay 5 dollars a package you drop off,But you only have a 3 hour window to work.

 

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15 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

The problem with the premise is that it's a game of whack-a-mole. As mentioned in other posts, even if you ruin one crypto by driving the difficulty too high, people will just look elsewhere for the next big thing. The only way to get mining to stop is for governments to either regulate it or make it illegal.

The irs is wanting their tax money.They already went after coinbase https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/29/16717416/us-coinbase-irs-records

Which makes me wonder how many miners didn't report their earnings on their taxes ?I see a lot of them bragging about mining on any pc forum and groups on facebook so i would bet less then 5% reported their earnings.

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17 hours ago, CommandMan7 said:

I am similarly involved in mining so I don't need to use actual money for exchange purposes. When it comes to higher risk investments (my stocks on Robinhood, Steam market items, my Ripple trading) I approach it as a hobby rather than a money making proposition. It's kind of like the recent LMG video:

People go to these auctions and pay far over the fair market price because it's enjoyable. Maybe they'll find a gem, but 90% of the time it's a loss. I approach all these things with the expectation that I'm going to lose it all, and anything better than that is a welcome surprise.  

 

I would like to believe, even though I have no evidence for this, that most people who mine when their gaming PC is not in use are in a similar situation. 

 

As for the core argument from earlier, perhaps somebody could set up a mining pool that automatically takes its mining reward and sells it onto the exchanges below market price in an attempt to force prices lower. It'd be a kind of "charity" that people could do to actively force prices, and therefore profitability, lower to the point where GPU mining is no longer feasible.

 

A auction comes down to how much the buyer knows about what they are buying.I use to flip cars years ago and i knew what i was buying and what it was worth.The reason i stopped doing it was the used car lot dealers would pay well over blue book for a car.They can ask anything they want on a car lot,Or trick people in with so much a month as a payment.Today if i go to those car auctions I'm looking for me a car not something ill resale later on.

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Quick question: 

 

Would this discussion exist if people bought the GPUs for gaming instead of mining? Imagine people buying 100.000 GPU just for the f*** of it, driving the prices up like miners are causing right now. I realise it's not a realistic situation, but wouldn't they have the same right to own that shit-ton of cards? 

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3 hours ago, aless83 said:

Quick question: 

 

Would this discussion exist if people bought the GPUs for gaming instead of mining? Imagine people buying 100.000 GPU just for the f*** of it, driving the prices up like miners are causing right now. I realise it's not a realistic situation, but wouldn't they have the same right to own that shit-ton of cards? 

People have done that in the past. I couldn't find a GTX 1080 at MSRP for months after it launched because people were buying it up to scalp it just because it was a popular item.

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3 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

People have done that in the past. I couldn't find a GTX 1080 at MSRP for months after it launched because people were buying it up to scalp it just because it was a popular item.

 

Agree.  Craigslist is flooded with them.  It's dying down now, but it was pretty bad for a while there. 


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accept the reality of high priced graphics cards and shell out for them if you wish to play AAA games at high settings and high fps

or

use igpu or sub $200 cards and support indie game developers or others developing games that do not require so much graphics power

 

 


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The way to make mining unprofitable would be to force people buying graphics cards to somehow prove what they're using them for, and charge say $500 for a gamer's 1080 and $50000 for a miner's 1080.


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Companies are in it to make profit, they will sell to anyone.

"proof" will never happen

How do you prove it at the cashier anyway. LOLOLOLOL

And would there be a type of game requirement as well.

Like they would say "No you cant have that 1080 for $500 because you are playing Tetris, and not some AAAAAAA game.


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On 3/12/2018 at 10:53 AM, asus killer said:

this is not true, the base of the problem is in fact the cryptocurrency, because it is volatile, it's been in the past and it will in the future, and no one wants to serve a market that can disappear in a moment and be back in the next, and worst when they go away they flood the market with millions of used GPU's. No company will ever plan production and sales for this kind of costumers. Let alone miners not caring less about brand loyalty.

 

 

I doubt they'll continue to ignore miners forever. Bitmain made almost 4 billion USD$ in profit last year selling ASIC miner which is more than double what nvidia made that year. it's only a matter of time before they take the risk and start producing more GPU chips

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