nVidia GeForce Partner Program: Well Intention Marketing or Anti-Competitive

[XenosTech]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

TBH, I have yet to meet someone who buys PC parts who is an absolute noob, they usually buy prebuilt stuff like alienware.  

I know quite a few who buy prebuilts and change out gpu's overtime til they feel like the cpu is holding back then buy a new prebuilt.... They don't understand pc hardware to the depths we do but they operate under "change gpu every year and buy a new system every 3-5 years."

[Razor01]

3 hours ago, XenosTech said:

I know quite a few who buy prebuilts and change out gpu's overtime til they feel like the cpu is holding back then buy a new prebuilt.... They don't understand pc hardware to the depths we do but they operate under "change gpu every year and buy a new system every 3-5 years."

 

 

And right now AMD is pretty much irrelevant in the gaming market so it doesn't matter.

 

Dell is selling Vega 64 in Alienware systems for 150 bucks more than a 1080!  That isn't even realistic pricing for these cards.  Might as well go up to a 1080ti for 50 bucks more.

[XenosTech]

2 hours ago, Razor01 said:

 

 

And right now AMD is pretty much irrelevant in the gaming market so it doesn't matter.

 

Dell is selling Vega 64 in Alienware systems for 150 bucks more than a 1080!  That isn't even realistic pricing for these cards.  Might as well go up to a 1080ti for 50 bucks more.

Both are irrelevant where I am since we don't have anything above a 550 in stock and even those are hard to find. Not everyone is going to shell out an $50-$150 for a better gpu, that's why we have budgets and some are very restrictive.

[Razor01]

4 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

Both are irrelevant where I am since we don't have anything above a 550 in stock and even those are hard to find. Not everyone is going to shell out an $50-$150 for a better gpu, that's why we have budgets and some are very restrictive.

 

 

Tell that to Dell when they were selling system's with Fury X at 200 bucks over 980ti systems. 

 

If a person is on a budget, how would a card that performances worse than a 1080 priced higher help their cause?

 

Dell might as well drop AMD graphics cards from list.  Those cards aren't going to sell. 

 

All the marketing deals in the world doesn't make a difference in today's market.

 

Once AMD gets back on track with properly competing products the GPP will not work, nV won't have leverage anymore, because AIB's and OEM's know if they don't sell AMD cards with similar ability to brand them and push them to the market properly they loose out.  Right now AIB's and OEM's have no reason to push AMD graphics products.

[XenosTech]

2 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

 

 

Tell that to Dell when they were selling system's with Fury X at 200 bucks over 980ti systems. 

 

If a person is on a budget, how would a card that performances worse than a 1080 priced higher help their cause?

 

Dell might as well drop AMD graphics cards from list.  Those cards aren't going to sell. 

 

All the marketing deals in the world doesn't make a difference in today's market.

 

Once AMD gets back on track with properly competing products the GPP will not work, nV won't have leverage anymore, because AIB's and OEM's know if they don't sell AMD cards with similar ability to brand them and push them to the market properly they loose out.  Right now AIB's and OEM's have no reason to push AMD graphics products.

Most people who are buying pre-builts don't really care about that kind of stuff, they just want it to work and work with very few issues, hence why pre-builts are a popular thing among businesses and avg joe.

[pas008]

10 hours ago, MegaTechPC said:

Some of you guys are still missing the point of why this is such a scummy action by Nvidia.  Its not that you (in particular) don't care about branding or "names on a box" etc.  We are informed PC enthusiasts so obviously I expect that most of the people in LTT forums are not necessarily swayed by branding alone when making purchasing decisions.  The problem is that Nvidia is hijacking all of the most popular AIB gaming sub-brands (sub-brands whose popularity they were not alone in establishing) so that Joe Blow, the average PC noob who just buys whatever ROG hardware because "its the best", will now be buying GeForce-only cards going forward, without even necessarily realizing it.  Its pathetic and I honestly don't understand why a single person here would actually be applauding such behavior, as the ultimate victim in all of this is consumer choice...

many arent enthusiast they are just gamers and listen to what others tell them to buy

I could link many forum posts about why drivers wont install because they dont have nvidia or amd

7 hours ago, mr moose said:

TBH, I have yet to meet someone who buys PC parts who is an absolute noob, they usually buy prebuilt stuff like alienware.  

met many in real life and online forums 

if you go to help and etc places in forums it tell you the complete story

6 hours ago, XenosTech said:

I know quite a few who buy prebuilts and change out gpu's overtime til they feel like the cpu is holding back then buy a new prebuilt.... They don't understand pc hardware to the depths we do but they operate under "change gpu every year and buy a new system every 3-5 years."

this too,

[laminutederire]

52 minutes ago, pas008 said:

many arent enthusiast they are just gamers and listen to what others tell them to buy

I could link many forum posts about why drivers wont install because they dont have nvidia or amd

met many in real life and online forums 

if you go to help and etc places in forums it tell you the complete story

this too,

It's a bit our fault. It's usually because they saw or heard someone who built his system which was either way cheaper or way more beautiful, and they want to replicate that.

[MegaTechPC]

13 hours ago, Razor01 said:

 

 

Tell that to Dell when they were selling system's with Fury X at 200 bucks over 980ti systems. 

 

If a person is on a budget, how would a card that performances worse than a 1080 priced higher help their cause?

 

Dell might as well drop AMD graphics cards from list.  Those cards aren't going to sell. 

 

All the marketing deals in the world doesn't make a difference in today's market.

 

Once AMD gets back on track with properly competing products the GPP will not work, nV won't have leverage anymore, because AIB's and OEM's know if they don't sell AMD cards with similar ability to brand them and push them to the market properly they loose out.  Right now AIB's and OEM's have no reason to push AMD graphics products.

You seem to be under the erroneous belief that ONLY flagship cards and GPUs count.  As far as I can tell, AMD has strong competition for Nvidia at every single product stack below the 1080Ti/Titan.  The RX580 is absolutely competitive with the 1060 and the Vega 56 is competitive with the 1070 and so on and so on.  Current pricing of all cards is all out of whack due to the stupid mining craze, but if you look at actual MSRP, Nvidia has strong competition from AMD at nearly every price point below the very top end.

[Dabombinable]

43 minutes ago, MegaTechPC said:

You seem to be under the erroneous belief that ONLY flagship cards and GPUs count.  As far as I can tell, AMD has strong competition for Nvidia at every single product stack below the 1080Ti/Titan.  The RX580 is absolutely competitive with the 1060 and the Vega 56 is competitive with the 1070 and so on and so on.  Current pricing of all cards is all out of whack due to the stupid mining craze, but if you look at actual MSRP, Nvidia has strong competition from AMD at nearly every price point below the very top end.

Still can't believe how out of control the pricing is. You can easily get a GTX 1070ti cheaper than an Vega 56, and a 1080ti $100 cheaper than a Vega 64 card
https://www.pccasegear.com/category/193_877/graphics-cards/amd-graphics-cards

https://www.pccasegear.com/category/193_876/graphics-cards/nvidia-graphics-cards

 

And its similar for the RX 5xx series as well.

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Still can't believe how out of control the pricing is. You can easily get a GTX 1070ti cheaper than an Vega 56, and a 1080ti $100 cheaper than a Vega 64 card
https://www.pccasegear.com/category/193_877/graphics-cards/amd-graphics-cards

https://www.pccasegear.com/category/193_876/graphics-cards/nvidia-graphics-cards

 

And its similar for the RX 5xx series as well.

And cheaper to buy in Australia than in the US for change.  

 

My mate just did a full system upgrade (ouch, glad he's got the cash for it), he wanted to do a full AMD build (he was deathly adamant to go red because he wanted a full change and other reasons), anyway no matter which way he spun the build it was going to cost him a few hundred more than the better performing CL/1080ti build. 

 

It's taken AMD 5 years to loose the "runs hot and slow" reputation (almost) and now they are in danger of being perpetually labeled more expensive and worse performing.

[Valentyn]

Well it seems MSI India believes that GPP is apparently, needed; and everywhere because people won't buy any subpar products ( AMD ) anyway?
This is a little funky

 

 

[asus killer]

On 3/22/2018 at 5:09 AM, MegaTechPC said:

Some of you guys are still missing the point of why this is such a scummy action by Nvidia.  Its not that you (in particular) don't care about branding or "names on a box" etc.  We are informed PC enthusiasts so obviously I expect that most of the people in LTT forums are not necessarily swayed by branding alone when making purchasing decisions.  The problem is that Nvidia is hijacking all of the most popular AIB gaming sub-brands (sub-brands whose popularity they were not alone in establishing) so that Joe Blow, the average PC noob who just buys whatever ROG hardware because "its the best", will now be buying GeForce-only cards going forward, without even necessarily realizing it.  Its pathetic and I honestly don't understand why a single person here would actually be applauding such behavior, as the ultimate victim in all of this is consumer choice...

i doubt an average Joe noob knows what ROG is, most likely knows very well ASUS.

[laminutederire]

1 hour ago, Valentyn said:

 

Funny thing is that Amd's solution in this case would be kaby lake G with better perfs and a smaller footprint against that laptop with a 1050. Nice job MSI to make a worse alternative and say it's the best because it's Nvidia.

[Notional]

3 hours ago, Valentyn said:

Well it seems MSI India believes that GPP is apparently, needed; and everywhere because people won't buy any subpar products ( AMD ) anyway?
This is a little funky

 

WOW! The idiot responsible for that facebook account, messed up. It's one thing MSI adopts this horrible programme (they kinda don't have a choice), but to add on to it with such a moronic answer? Wtf is MSI thinking?

[Tcrumpen]

After thinking on this i realised that a lot of companies are already doing this general, exact case a point is Gibson Guitars. Now not gaming by any means but i've spoken to a lot of Guitar store workers and they have all told me that if they stock Gibsons legally they can't stock brands like Tokai because Tokai have been accused of make Les Paul copies without authorisation from Gibson themselves in the past (Here's a quick fact: The only companies that are allowed to call (and make) a guitar that is a Les Paul are Gibson and Epiphone, all other makers have to call them 'Single Cuts' and make changes to the look of it so it doesn't look like a Gibson Les Paul)

 

Now this is annoying to most people yes but it just means that they just go to another store that don't stock Gibson. I believe this is what Nvidia are trying to do they are trying to stop companies selling off cards as Nvidia cards when they are not; now if this is the case i understand the premise but the execution was TERRIBLE, Nvidia didn't add enough clarity to their statement

 

I can understand Nivida's reasoning for this but again they way they went about was very "greedy mans wants something for nothing"

[mr moose]

15 hours ago, MegaTechPC said:

You seem to be under the erroneous belief that ONLY flagship cards and GPUs count.  As far as I can tell, AMD has strong competition for Nvidia at every single product stack below the 1080Ti/Titan.  The RX580 is absolutely competitive with the 1060 and the Vega 56 is competitive with the 1070 and so on and so on.  Current pricing of all cards is all out of whack due to the stupid mining craze, but if you look at actual MSRP, Nvidia has strong competition from AMD at nearly every price point below the very top end.

 

And there in lies the problem, the 1060, 1070, 1080 were all released a year before those AMD counterparts.  A year is a stupidly  extraordinarily long time for any company to have a lead in consumer sales.  This lead even though it was 2 years ago still has a  large effect today because people don't upgrade their GP's every cycle.   As I said in another thread, it has taken AMD a long time to lose the "hot and slow" reputation, now they face perpetually being labeled a year late and under performing.   These things must be considered when companies decide which products to invest in. 

 

 

 

[MegaTechPC]

Uh, the RX 480 launched before the 1060.  The 580 is essentially a rebrand of the 480.

[mr moose]

36 minutes ago, MegaTechPC said:

Uh, the RX 480 launched before the 1060.  The 580 is essentially a rebrand of the 480.

 

Only a month earlier, and it took them till April the following year to only marginally improve on the 480. On top of that you are forgetting the 1080 was release one month earlier than the 480.  So that's a whole year with the rx 480  being their best offering and the 1060 still betting it.  

 

EDIT: I should add, even if the 480 was faster than the 1060, the point is it was in the same price point making AMD's range effectively stop competing at the 1060 and up for a whole year.   Which as I said is a horrid thought in such a market.

[MegaTechPC]

The 1060 didn't really better it though, and Nvidia still hasn't released a successor for it either.  Polaris was never intended to be a competitor for the 1080, so its release date is irrelevant to my point.  The fact is that right now AMD offers competitive products at every segment other than the very top end (1080Ti and Titan Xp) if we are talking about actual MSRP and non-mining prices.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, MegaTechPC said:

The 1060 didn't really better it though, and Nvidia still hasn't released a successor for it either.  Polaris was never intended to be a competitor for the 1080, so its release date is irrelevant to my point.  The fact is that right now AMD offers competitive products at every segment other than the very top end (1080Ti and Titan Xp) if we are talking about actual MSRP and non-mining prices.

My point is it doesn't matter if they have something to offer right now, they didn't for so long and that hurt them.    Releasing the 580 a year after the 1060 when the entire top half of the market was nvidia's for taking for a whole year did nothing.  It'll be interesting to see if the release of Vega has had any effect on their market share, but as of 3rd quarter 2017 they lost 2% to nvidia.