nVidia GeForce Partner Program: Well Intention Marketing or Anti-Competitive

[Razor01]

11 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

you must not know but cards with "gaming" automatically sell 3:1 over cards that dont have that name, so this is a huge problem, the normal consumer is too dumb/ uninformed to know about this things 

 

 

hell ya that is why AMD is shit scared. but what are they going to do about it.  Force their AIB partners and nV too.  They have to take both to court now because the AIB's have signed up for it.  The chances of winning such a thing, something that isn't well documented in law or even mentioned in law, that is just really hard to do.  Gotta be some creative attorneys to find the correct angle to get this to work because in many industries this is happening and so far no one has tried to take something like this to court lol.  Not on the sole basis of exclusive advertising.

 

The only way this would have worked in favor of AMD, is if AIB's and AMD get together and push it.  The problem is AIB's know if they do that, they loose the goose that lays the golden egg, nV.  Because there is no replacement for them right now.

[Drak3]

9 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

nV isn't saying this.  They are saying if you are part of the GPP, then you must stop advertising AMD cards as the same brand lol.

No, they're saying that anything other than Geforce cannot be branded in any gaming lineup (which could fall under false advertising).

 

It's damn near the same exact competitive behavior that Intel was doing a decade or so ago.

[Arika]

3 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

hell ya that is why AMD is shit scared. 

AMD isn't "shit scared" they're getting all their money from miners buying their GPUs, not Gamers. there's not exactly hurting for sales

[Blademaster91]

26 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

you must not know but cards with "gaming" automatically sell 3:1 over cards that dont have that name, so this is a huge problem, the normal consumer is too dumb/ uninformed to know about this things 

I get the concern, I think its kinda sh*ty that the AIB partners even have to change the branding,though as long as it's only the branding what can AMD do? If it's any further than just the name on the box or card then I think it's deserving of AMD to start up lawsuits. IMO it's not all of NV's or the AIB's fault,AMD needs to get their marketing team in order if they want to compete.

But i'd like to see proof that the "gaming brand sells 2-3x more. Any buyer looking for a "gaming" GPU that has any clue what they're buying is going to see "Radeon" or "Geforce" on the box.

[Arika]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Any buyer looking for a "gaming" GPU that has any clue what they're buying is going to see "Radeon" or "Geforce" on the box.

and any consumer that doesn't have a clue what they're buying, is likely going to buy the wrong thing anyway, regardless of branding

[Razor01]

15 minutes ago, Sierra Fox said:

AMD isn't "shit scared" they're getting all their money from miners buying their GPUs, not Gamers. there's not exactly hurting for sales

 

 

Think nV's next gen is going to be weaker at mining than current AMD cards?

 

Most alt coins on Titan V are 50% to 100% faster in hashrates than current corp of nV cards.  When they work cause the mining software for some coins need to be updated.

 

Yeah they are scared, cause once that is gone.  They have no where to go to sell cards.

[Razor01]

12 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I get the concern, I think its kinda sh*ty that the AIB partners even have to change the branding,though as long as it's only the branding what can AMD do? If it's any further than just the name on the box or card then I think it's deserving of AMD to start up lawsuits. IMO it's not all of NV's or the AIB's fault,AMD needs to get their marketing team in order if they want to compete.

But i'd like to see proof that the "gaming brand sells 2-3x more. Any buyer looking for a "gaming" GPU that has any clue what they're buying is going to see "Radeon" or "Geforce" on the box.

 

 

The word gaming does have quite a bit of connotation, depending on the product.  for a keyboard or mouse, they are seen as better quality.  For a computer or computer components, better performance, for people like us, we know this stuff, it won't make a difference, but for an average joe walking through Sam's Club or Walmart, they don't know any better.

[cj09beira]

18 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

 

 

hell ya that is why AMD is shit scared. but what are they going to do about it.  Force their AIB partners and nV too.  They have to take both to court now because the AIB's have signed up for it.  The chances of winning such a thing, something that isn't well documented in law or even mentioned in law, that is just really hard to do.  Gotta be some creative attorneys to find the correct angle to get this to work because in many industries this is happening and so far no one has tried to take something like this to court lol.  Not on the sole basis of exclusive advertising.

 

The only way this would have worked in favor of AMD, is if AIB's and AMD get together and push it.  The problem is AIB's know if they do that, they loose the goose that lays the golden egg, nV.  Because there is no replacement for them right now.

for this to work for nvidea most aibs have to submit, but if most of them get together nvidea will be forced to retreat as they are the ones buying gpus from nvidea, the possibility of them joining together  is low though, and i really dont think there is much amd can do, nvidea really plays dirty

[Arika]

1 minute ago, Razor01 said:

Think nV's next gen is going to be weaker at mining than current AMD cards?

i hope so. no idea if there's a way to intentionally stunt the hash rates of without affecting gaming performance. If NVidiia were serious about their release asking to stop selling to miners, if they can make their cards less appealing to miners (again if possible) then i would see that as a good thing with more GPUs available for gamers and not inflated prices

[Razor01]

21 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, they're saying that anything other than Geforce cannot be branded in any gaming lineup (which could fall under false advertising).

 

It's damn near the same exact competitive behavior that Intel was doing a decade or so ago.

 

 

If they are saying its not a gaming card then its false advertising, just by not having gaming next to it, is not false advertising.  nV was very careful on the wording of this contract, if we are to assume what Kyle stated so far, of course there is a lot to it we don't know, but from what we have seen so far.....

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

Think nV's next gen is going to be weaker at mining than current AMD cards?

 

Most alt coins on Titan V are 50% to 100% faster in hashrates than current corp of nV cards.  When they work cause the mining software for some coins need to be updated.

 

Yeah they are scared, cause once that is gone to.  They have no where to go to sell cards.

Because miners actually buy in bulk the top end cards... Hash rate means nothing if the buy price is too high. Also once the card they want the most is sold out they move on to the next best until that's sold out. While mining is still a thing no one is going to have issues selling GPUs.

[cj09beira]

18 minutes ago, Sierra Fox said:

AMD isn't "shit scared" they're getting all their money from miners buying their GPUs, not Gamers. there's not exactly hurting for sales

that only protects them in the very short term, mining is going to die as people find more efficient ways of securing the network

[Razor01]

4 minutes ago, Sierra Fox said:

i hope so. no idea if there's a way to intentionally stunt the hash rates of without affecting gaming performance. If NVidiia were serious about their release asking to stop selling to miners, if they can make their cards less appealing to miners (again if possible) then i would see that as a good thing with more GPUs available for gamers and not inflated prices

 

 

Discussed this at [H] in length actually, to shut off compute performance is the only way to stop mining hash rates, and if that is done, games can't perform well either.  Compute is become the basis of all game programming now.

[Arika]

Just now, cj09beira said:

that only protects them in the very short term, mining is going to die as people find more efficient ways of securing the network

one can dream

[Razor01]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Because miners actually buy in bulk the top end cards... Hash rate means nothing if the buy price is too high. Also once the card they want the most is sold out they move on to the next best until that's sold out. While mining is still a thing no one is going to have issues selling GPUs.

That is true, I don't buy cards when to ROI is higher than 6 months, because its not worth it, by the time I pay of the investment, it will be too late to make a profit.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

 

 

If they are saying its not a gaming card then its false advertising, just by not having gaming next to it, is not false advertising.

However, only denoting one manufacturer as being gaming grade, when the other has a lineup specifically fpr the same exact purposes, is false advertising.

[Razor01]

Just now, Drak3 said:

However, only denoting one manufacturer as being gaming grade, when the other has a lineup specifically fpr the same exact purposes, is false advertising.

 

 

nah its not.  If they put for your non gaming needs or something that eludes to that, then yeah.  Just by leaving gaming off of it doesn't do that.

 

Its like saying MSI armor cards are illegal to sell because gaming isn't part of their name. 

[Drak3]

Just now, Razor01 said:

 

 

nah its not.  If they put for your non gaming needs or something that eludes to that, then yeah.  Just by leaving gaming off of it doesn't do that.

 

Its like saying MSI armor cards are illegal to sell because gaming isn't part of their name. 

Except Armor cards are not exclusively AMD or Nvidia.

 

Whereas GPP calls for all gaming lines to be Nvidia exclusive.

[laminutederire]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

However, only denoting one manufacturer as being gaming grade, when the other has a lineup specifically fpr the same exact purposes, is false advertising.

I'd say it's not false advertising, but rather deceptive advertising, which is as reprehensible as false advertising if I remember right.

[Razor01]

Just now, laminutederire said:

I'd say it's not false advertising, but rather deceptive advertising, which is as reprehensible as false advertising if I remember right.

 

Deceptive advertising is false advertising, just different jurisdictions different names.

[laminutederire]

Just now, Razor01 said:

 

Deceptive advertising is false advertising, just different jurisdictions different names.

Not exactly. False advertising is based on outright lies, while deceptive is omitting and hyperbolating facts to paint an untrue picture. With the notion of deception you also add a notion of greater intent to harm.

[Razor01]

7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Except Armor cards are not exclusively AMD or Nvidia.

 

Whereas GPP calls for all gaming lines to be Nvidia exclusive.

 

The problem isn't with the advertising if there is even a problem, and noted the company must agree to do this, so there is no problem.  Its with nV wanted that as a requisite to the GPP.

 

Outside of false advertising, which means something has to be said to create a false impression of the product.  So lets say AMD says GCN 1.0 are AI monsters.  That is false advertising. 

3 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Not exactly. False advertising is based on outright lies, while deceptive is omitting and hyperbolating facts to paint an untrue picture. With the notion of deception you also add a notion of greater intent to harm.

Under the law they come under the same

 

https://consumer.laws.com/deceptive-advertising/deceptive-advertising-definition

 

Great example of this is nV's gtx 970, this is why nV caved in to the settlement, it wasn't the slow partition of the 512 mb of memory.  It was the ROP amounts, that was false advertising.

[WMGroomAK]

5 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

The problem isn't with the advertising if there is even a problem, and noted the company must agree to do this, so there is no problem.  Its with nV wanted that as a requisite to the GPP.

So if I read what you are saying, it's that it is perfectly legal for a large company to tell one of the companies that they supply a component for that either they join a 'partnership' which may put the large companies competition at a disadvantage or not join the partnership, in which case the large company will effectively penalize the smaller company economically...  

[Razor01]

17 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

So if I read what you are saying, it's that it is perfectly legal for a large company to tell one of the companies that they supply a component for that either they join a 'partnership' which may put the large companies competition at a disadvantage or not join the partnership, in which case the large company will effectively penalize the smaller company economically...  

 

 

No it will be illegal if it hurts them with their current on going contracts, like with Pascal.  Since they have already gotten certain allocation amounts and are expecting those amounts and they are procuring other parts based on those expectations.

 

But we know Pascal is EOL, with Volta, or what ever its called there must be new contracts.  So they can say at that point sorry we aren't going to sell to you anymore.  They can give the BS reason that since your brand has other products that don't match up well with what this new card can do we can't let you water down our brand.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

12 hours ago, Carclis said:

That does not explain why you still see 1050's with Gaming X versions but not anything from AMD. In fact if you look at MSI's product page for GPU's you'll find that all older and current AMD cards which had Gaming X versions have been removed. You can find them by searching manually for the product name using the search bar but they are hidden from the sort functionality. When it comes to the RX 580 you'll find instead of the Gaming X versions that there are Armor MK2 cards.

There was a thread in this section, some time ago, about MSI launching the Armor MK2. I remember most of the comments were "Why this? Why now?", as it was way after the RX 5xx release, in the middle of a massive GPU shortage.

Maybe we know the answers now?