nVidia GeForce Partner Program: Well Intention Marketing or Anti-Competitive

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, hobobobo said:

Promoting is one thing, removing product info is another. If you sold something you must have information on the product, somebody more familiar with the law will be able to explain why (warranties and other stuff prolly). In all likelyhood, the existing aorus g1 whatever cards are gonna stay on the websites, just gonna be buried to page 2-infinity.

 

This is already plenty of trend, with retailers being breifed on the new marketing and selling techniques and not being able to talk about it. Id say im 85% sure Kyle was right, where a couple of hours ago i was aroun 70% (20% for big corps being scum in general)

 

There is nothing to be drawn from what manufacturers have on their website.

[hobobobo]

Just now, mr moose said:

 

There is nothing to be drawn from what manufacturers have on their website.

But there is info to be drawn from actual retailers channels, where the only gaming branded cards remaining are from second-market, none from manufacturers. Once again, this was not the case this morning (for me its 11.58pm now), and unless somebody decided its high noon to open a new huge-ass cryptofarm i doubt the cards just got sold out.

[Humbug]

48 minutes ago, mr moose said:

to be fair they are comparing a 580 to a 1080.  I wouldn't call a 580 gamer focused when the next model is a 1080.  If it was a vega I would share your concern.

Do you know how powerful an rx 580 graphics chip is? Calling it not gamer focused is a travesty.

 

Gigabyte also brands their gtx 1060 under Aorus branding. And they even market the 1050ti as a 'gaming' card.

 

So if the computerbase source is correct that means Nvidia in gigabyte's case has claimed ownership of a term as generic as 'gaming' which means slower Nvidia cards can be promoted as 'gaming' above faster AMD cards. So a typical uneducated consumer can be given the impression that the 1050ti has more game than the rx 580. 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, Humbug said:

Do you know how powerful an rx 580 graphics chip is? Calling it not gamer focused is a travesty.

 

Gigabyte also brands their gtx 1060 under Aorus branding. And they even market the 1050ti as a 'gaming' card.

 

So if the computerbase source is correct that means Nvidia in gigabyte's case has claimed ownership of a term as generic as 'gaming' which means slower Nvidia cards can be promoted as 'gaming' above faster AMD cards. So a typical uneducated consumer can be given the impression that the 1050ti has more game than the rx 580. 

 

And if that turns out to be the case let the lawsuits fly.

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

But there is info to be drawn from actual retailers channels, where the only gaming branded cards remaining are from second-market, none from manufacturers. Once again, this was not the case this morning (for me its 11.58pm now), and unless somebody decided its high noon to open a new huge-ass cryptofarm i doubt the cards just got sold out.

The cards probably did just sell out.  It seems to be a phenomenon that has been happening for a few years now with stocks very low and selling fast.

[mr moose]

https://www.centrecom.com.au/gigabyte-rx-570-aorus-4gb-graphics-card

https://www.centrecom.com.au/gigabyte-rx-580-aorus-8gb-graphics-card

https://www.pccasegear.com/products/38531/gigabyte-aorus-radeon-rx-580-8gb

https://www.mwave.com.au/product/gigabyte-aorus-radeon-rx-580-8gb-video-card-ac03842

 

It seems they are still available here.   

 

EDIT: so unless we have better laws in Australia or the GPP doesn't apply here, then the concept that retailers are pulling them due to GPP is currently flawed

[hobobobo]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The cards probably did just sell out.  It seems to be a phenomenon that has been happening for a few years now with stocks very low and selling fast.

All of them? In 1 day after being there for the past 4-5 days? I highly doubt that, considering the one who supposedly bought them decided that resellers cards are not worth his attention, only the ones from manufacturers.

 

On the post with the links, you go from big to small. As mentioned, they are still available even on newegg or amazon, just not directly from manufacturer, only from resellers. I dunno nearly enough about the guys you linked, by they look like resellers.

[Notional]

11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

There is nothing to be drawn from what manufacturers have on their website.

 

So you complain about a "lack" of sources and evidence. When the vendors themselves on their own pages proves this, then????

[mr moose]

Just now, hobobobo said:

All of them? In 1 day after being there for the past 4-5 days? I highly doubt that, considering the one who supposedly bought them decided that resellers cards are not worth his attention, only the ones from manufacturers.

see edit in my post.   Pointing to one or two changes retailer listings is not the same as a market wide shift.  That remains to be seen.

[Razor01]

Products that are already on store shelves or in this case online, can't be shifted, unless the AIB tells the retailer, send their cards back and they will send replacement ones.  Other wise no, they won't just pull their stock and have it sit there lol.  And they can sell their stock as is, since they bought them that way to begin with.

 

GPP does not cover the retail sales of products.  Contracts like these aren't retroactive.  They can't be

[mr moose]

Just now, Notional said:

So you complain about a "lack" of sources and evidence. When the vendors themselves on their own pages proves this, then????

except retailers and manufacturers are still listing RX580 as aorus and gaming products. one product being presented otherwise does not change that.

 

[hobobobo]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

see edit in my post.   Pointing to one or two changes retailer listings is not the same as a market wide shift.  That remains to be seen.

See mine) The point is - the cards directly from manufacturers are gone, the ones left are from tier2 retailers.

[Razor01]

1 minute ago, hobobobo said:

See mine) The point is - the cards directly from manufacturers are gone, the ones left are from tier2 retailers.

 

 

Yes from the manufacturer, that will happen, the manufacturer has to do what the contract states, its in their power to make those changes.  A retailer after the fact if they have the cards in hand they can sell their products as is.  The retailer is not bound by the GPP.  The manufacturer of the card is bound by it.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

See mine) The point is - the cards directly from manufacturers are gone, the ones left are from tier2 retailers.

and,  we have manufacturers with them still on page and retailers still selling them. That alone proves retailers and manufactures are not pulling them.

[hobobobo]

Just now, Razor01 said:

 

 

Yes from the manufacturer, that will happen, the manufacturer has to do what the contract states, its in their power to make those changes.  A retailer after the fact if they have the cards in hand they can sell their products as is.

Thats what im saying. Manufacturer cards being gone is a pretty good indicator, while reseller ones staying means nothing. Looks like you are getting to the point of agreeing that its pretty much the grimmest scenario possible, and in advance - i have no doubt that AIBs would jump on the opportunity to state that AMD specific gaming line-ups are coming, all is well and good, if they were able to

[Razor01]

Before anyone goes any further, they really need to look up anti competitive vs anti competitor.

[hobobobo]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

and,  we have manufacturers with them still on page and retailers still selling them. That alone proves retailers and manufactures are not pulling them.

Try to tell a reseller to pull a product, good luck. You will have to recall it, and nobody likes that. Product info cant be just gone from manufacturers website, even if discontinued, it will stay there untill the end of time or until the company is gone. With more new products it will be undeniable, but even as of now - lack of direct supply from manufacturers on tier1 platforms is a good indicator, never before have cards from all the major ones dissapeared at once with reseller offerings staying there

 

[mr moose]

Just now, hobobobo said:

 Product info cant be just gone from manufacturers website, even if discontinued, it will stay there untill the end of time or until the company is gone.

 

Says who?  There are plenty of companies with no product info on the websites.   That literally means nothing. 

 

 

 

[hobobobo]

2 minutes ago, Razor01 said:

Before anyone goes any further, they really need to look up anti competitive vs anti competitor.

Not arguing either since with a quick google search i wont know enough about either. What im saying - im almost completly sure Kyles statement about "gaming brands being exlusivly alligned with GeForce" is a true one

[hobobobo]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Says who?  There are plenty of companies with no product info on the websites.   That literally means nothing. 

 

 

 

Find me a major consumer company without product info. If not a page - there is always a section with pdfs with product specs. The small ones just fly under the radar or incompetent/dont have the resources

[Razor01]

4 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

Not arguing either since with a quick google search i wont know enough about either. What im saying - im almost completly sure Kyles statement about "gaming brands being exlusivly alligned with GeForce" is a true one

 

Yeah but I don't think anyone really disagreed with that sentiment it was just unknown, but at the end of it all, it means nothing.  nV feels AMD doesn't compete with them, and they have "asked" well we know what that means, AIB's not put them next to each other, and gaming with their cards is better, so they are the gaming brand.  Its not the crux of the problem, the crux of the problem is AMD is getting pushed out of the gaming market, and the AIB's know it doesn't matter right now and definitely won't matter in the near to mid future.  That is why they signed this contract.  There is also a very good change AMD will get pushed out of the mining side too.  I just don't see how any of this would stop them from loosing ground that wouldn't be lost anyways.

 

I'll tell ya this if you look at launch times even nV's performance in their decks, outside of the rx 480, they don't even mention AMD products.  So the rx 580, they don't even fell like it belongs against a 1060, because its power consumption at stock settings is not in the same league.

[WMGroomAK]

Just going to post this link again concerning Anti-Competitive practices in the U.S. and the potential that this could be looked at as Single Firm Conduct:

 

https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/anticompetitive-practices

Quote

Single Firm Conduct:

It is unlawful for a company to monopolize or attempt to monopolize trade, meaning a firm with market power cannot act to maintain or acquire a dominant position by excluding competitors or preventing new entry. It is important to note that it is not illegal for a company to have a monopoly, to charge “high prices,” or to try to achieve a monopoly position by aggressive methods. A company violates the law only if it tries to maintain or acquire a monopoly through unreasonable methods.

 

Single Firm Conduct: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct

 

The question that would be posed before the court is whether the terms within the GPP contain unreasonable methods on the AIBs and OEMs and whether nVidia is in such a market position that an AIB or OEM must sign on to the program to remain competitive.

 

Refusal to Deal: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/refusal-deal

[AresKrieger]

52 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Only the gamer cards will look different, the non-gamer ones will still look the same.

Just take a look at those, they aren't affected by the GPP because they aren't marketed for gamers and look very similar. Nothing will change about this.

Gaming cards have the best air coolers and thus are all that matters, if I'm buying for water cooling I'd be getting a blower cooler anyway so it wouldn't matter

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, hobobobo said:

Find me a major consumer company without product info. If not a page - there is always a section with pdfs with product specs. The small ones just fly under the radar or incompetent/dont have the resources

 

You want me to find you a webpage/pdf that doesn't exist or is not available online?  I have a euroarc 140 inverter welder I am trying to fix, apart from a handful of second hand sales sites and forum mentions there is no product page for it (it is not old either).  Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

[Razor01]

Just now, WMGroomAK said:

Just going to post this link again concerning Anti-Competitive practices in the U.S. and the potential that this could be looked at as Single Firm Conduct:

 

https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/anticompetitive-practices

 

Single Firm Conduct: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct

 

The question that would be posed before the court is whether the terms within the GPP contain unreasonable methods on the AIBs and OEMs and whether nVidia is in such a market position that an AIB or OEM must sign on to the program to remain competitive.

 

Refusal to Deal: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/refusal-deal

 

 

They can still sell their cards just not in the same brand man, so that right there doesn't do anything.

 

This is why I stated, we need to look at what Anti competitive vs Anti Competitor is.  This is Anti competitor.