nVidia GeForce Partner Program: Well Intention Marketing or Anti-Competitive

[Razor01]

10 minutes ago, Humbug said:

Why are so many people in this discussion trying to bring up the fact that Nvidia's current high end GPUs are better than AMDs?

 

Yes they are!

Yes it's a problem for AMD.

Yes AMD should do better next generation on the high end.

 

All off that is true. But none of it is relevant to this discussion.

 

If lots of people think that GPP is unethical then that's what they think. The fact that Vega is inferior to the 1080ti does not change that opinion. 

 

Also an action by Nvidia cannot be justified by claiming that AMD has bigger problems. Well AMD like all large companies has a multitude of problems. The world is complex. GPP is only one of their problems. A company's performance in the market is affected by a combination of factors such as product quality, promotional quality, distribution, pricing, support, competition and lots of other factors. Everything has an impact, GPP does too. It cannot be dismissed by bringimg up a more important factor such as product quality or supply issues.

 

 

It can be unethical in consumers eyes that understands what the brand stands for.  But it doesn't stop the product from being sold, just not marketed the same way, Two totally different things.

 

This is the grey area, Marketing is ephemeral, a product is not.  So unethical != to illegal.

 

AMD has problems in many fronts in graphics, right now and the near to mid future they aren't competitive and won't be in the performance and high end possible even mid range too (from the looks of Volta, there is a good chance we will see a similar performance increase we saw from Maxwell to Pascal if nV hits thier x2 per/watt targets and it looks like they have from a compute stand point).  They don't have any market present in gaming sense right now.  All of this affects mind share.  Now with new technologies emerging, its going to be worse.

[Humbug]

Just now, Razor01 said:

It can be unethical in consumers eyes that understands what the brand stands for.  But it doesn't stop the product from being sold, just not marketed the same way, Two totally different things.

 

This is the grey area, Marketing is ephemeral, a product is not.  So unethical != to illegal.

Yes. Unethical does not mean illegal.

If something is illegal then more direct pressure can be exerted to fight that action with a lawsuit usually being the final threat.

If something can be considered unethical but legal then it's a question of putting the information out there and letting people decide, each for themselves.

 

Just now, Razor01 said:

AMD has problems in many fronts in graphics, right now and the near to mid future they aren't competitive and won't be in the performance and high end possible even mid range too (from the looks of Volta, there is a good chance we will see a similar performance increase we saw from Maxwell to Pascal if nV hits thier x2 per/watt targets and it looks like they have from a compute stand point).  They don't have any market present in gaming sense right now.  All of this affects mind share.  Now with new technologies emerging, its going to be worse.

An interesting discussion but irrelevant and off topic...

[asus killer]

1 hour ago, Humbug said:

Why are so many people in this discussion trying to bring up the fact that Nvidia's current high end GPUs are better than AMDs?

 

Yes they are!

Yes it's a problem for AMD.

Yes AMD should do better next generation on the high end.

 

All off that is true. But none of it is relevant to this discussion.

 

If lots of people think that GPP is unethical then that's what they think. The fact that Vega is inferior to the 1080ti does not change that opinion. 

 

Also an action by Nvidia cannot be justified by claiming that AMD has bigger problems. Well AMD like all large companies has a multitude of problems. The world is complex. GPP is only one of their problems. A company's performance in the market is affected by a combination of factors such as product quality, promotional quality, distribution, pricing, support, competition and lots of other factors. Everything has an impact, GPP does too. It cannot be dismissed by bringing up a more important factor such as product quality or supply issues. 

because bad decisions by AMD in the past created this situation of leaving Nvidia with so much power. And AMD/ATI had more market share than Nvidia and lost it all. When that happens it's natural things like the GPP will be a reality.

Then again for i see no problem with the GPP, all the parts that partners have to adhere to the program seem blown out of proportion and happen all the time in lots of other markets.

The only thing in that i consider can have a negative impact is if Nvidia forces the partners to not sell AMD products. Even the using Strix or not Strix or ROG or not ROG is not that big a deal of course depending on the actual conditions, but i explained it in this topic already.

[hobobobo]

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-03/gigabyte-gaming-box-rx-580/#update1
 

Quote

ComputerBase hat bei Gigabyte nachgefragt, warum das Modell mit Radeon RX 580 als einziges der Serie nicht unter Gigabytes Marke für Spieler „Aorus“ läuft. Der Hersteller erklärt, der Fokus liege in diesem Fall nicht auf Spielern. Mit der Produktseite ist das allerdings nicht in Einklang zu bringen, deren erste Überschriften „Turn Your Ultrabook to Gaming Platform“ und „Upgrade the Game Experience“ lauten.

 

Quote

ComputerBase asked Gigabyte why the model with Radeon RX 580 is the only in the series which does not come with the "Aorus" gaming branding. The manufacturer states that the product is not gamer focused. This however is inconsistent with the product page, whose headings are "Turn Your Ultrabook to Gaming Platform" and "Upgrade the Game Experience".

Take this however you will, to me it seems there is extensive text on whats gaming, gamer oriented etc in GPP and its not just "separate gaming lineups"

[XenosTech]

7 hours ago, leadeater said:

Edit:

Lets play a game, name the graphics card. Btw I forgot myself which is one which lol.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

lol you made the same point I made earlier up but nobody seemed to notice it... Well the guy disappeared from the thread since I quoted him lol

[Drak3]

7 hours ago, leadeater said:

Lets play a game, name the graphics card. Btw I forgot myself which is one which lol.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Top is Nvidia. Bottom is AMD.

 

I'll take the cash prize.

 

 

 

Or the cache prize.

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

I don't actually know. Pretty sure they're the same card.

 

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Top is Nvidia. Bottom is AMD.

 

I'll take the cash prize.

 

 

 

Or the cache prize.

 

 

 

 

  Hide contents

I don't actually know. Pretty sure they're the same card.

 

Top was the RX 580 

[Drak3]

Just now, leadeater said:

Top was the RX 580 

Suuuurrreeee.

 

 

You just don't want to give me money.

 

kappa.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Suuuurrreeee.

 

 

You just don't want to give me money.

 

kappa.

Well that may be also true but it is, white box on PCIe connector that's biased to the right is on the RX 580 and the 1060 has a bigger centered one.

[hobobobo]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Top was the RX 580 

The game is retarded, its not like the card is sold in a transparent plastic bag)

Somebody might argue that he wants his mates to know that he got the 1080ti in that sexy glass case but fuck that guy, should have bought reference card then

 

Mark my words, in 2-3 months, after all the shit have settled the game will stay the same

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

Somebody might argue that he wants his mates to know that he got the 1080ti in that sexy glass case but fuck that guy, should have bought reference card then

*cough* Star Wars Edition *cough*

 

6 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

The game is retarded, its not like the card is sold in a transparent plastic bag)

It's also not like people are actually that incapable of reading the product name, the point that they physically look the same is stupid and is terrible justification for any of this. Better yet that even has nothing to do with it because the cards still look the same they are just forcing a name change.

[hobobobo]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

*cough* Star Wars Edition *cough*

 

It's also not like people are actually that incapable of reading the product name, the point that they physically look the same is stupid and is terrible justification for any of this. Better yet that even has nothing to do with it because the cards still look the same they are just forcing a name change.

Actually thought to write star wars edition at first, lol)

 

Cards looking the same is cost-saving from the manufacturer, nothing more)

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, hobobobo said:

And we come back to the starting point - this is concerning. It is nV overtaking existing TMs belonging to some1 else, without having to shell out the cash for the brand development, AIBs done that for them. AMD would need to heavily incentify AIBs to spend resources on creation of a new label, gaming brands are not as simple as bronze gold platinum intel shit, where they basicly had an intern work in photoshop for an hour making pretty coloured text. Gaming brand takes alot of time and effort to achieve market penetration and nV, basicly, appropriated all that AIBs effort

 

I stopped the discussing at that point earlier in the thread because that is all speculation as to the meaning of an agreement we can't read.  Well just have to see how things pan out on that front and if they are indeed as bad as people fear.

[hobobobo]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

 

I stopped the discussing at that point earlier in the thread because that is all speculation as to the meaning of an agreement we can't read.  Well just have to see how things pan out on that front and if they are indeed as bad as people fear.

Quote

ComputerBase asked Gigabyte why the model with Radeon RX 580 is the only in the series which does not come with the "Aorus" gaming branding. The manufacturer states that the product is not gamer focused. This however is inconsistent with the product page, whose headings are "Turn Your Ultrabook to Gaming Platform" and "Upgrade the Game Experience".

From the looks of this, they are. The "not gamer forcused" part is the killer

[AresKrieger]

I'm actually kinda happy the cards will look different, as @leadeater pointed out there is next to no visable difference between cards under the same branding, of course Nvidia using this in part to gain an edge but honestly I think its overall justified to want differentiation.

[XenosTech]

2 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

I'm actually kinda happy the cards will look different, as @leadeater pointed out there is next to no visable difference between cards under the same branding, now is Nvidia using this in part to gain an edge but honestly I think its overall justified to want differentiation.

They could just make better coolers for their own reference cards (AMD too) instead of brute forcing AIB to give up on one their brands to them.

[hobobobo]

2 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

I'm actually kinda happy the cards will look different, as @leadeater pointed out there is next to no visable difference between cards under the same branding, now is Nvidia using this in part to gain an edge but honestly I think its justified to want differentiation.

If just the different look was the case, all would be fine and dandy. This article: http://www.nag.co.za/2018/03/20/nvidias-geforce-partner-program-forces-branding-changes-for-asus-gigabyte-and-msi/ sums it up nicely, AMD is being removed from the premium card line-ups alltogether. And FFS, when do you actually see the card, except those 5 minutes between unpacking and putting it insde the rig? As stated above, bragging rights in glass cases is vanity in its pure form and fuckboys can just shell out on limited edition cards if they need their mates to be like "wow dude you got a sick ass 1080ti, fistbump bro". And even then, those people would not probably know that its a 1080ti unless told. This is all just retardation in essence and i sincerly congratulate you for indulging in it

[mr moose]

12 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

From the looks of this, they are. The "not gamer forcused" part is the killer

to be fair they are comparing a 580 to a 1080.  I wouldn't call a 580 gamer focused when the next model is a 1080.  If it was a vega I would share your concern.

 

But we are still getting ahead of ourselves. 

[hobobobo]

Just now, mr moose said:

to be fair they are comparing a 580 to a 1080.  I wouldn't call a 580 gamer focused when the next model is a 1080.  If it was a vega I would share your concern.

 

But we are still getting ahead of ourselves. 

I would. Is a guy with 1080p monitor less of a gamer then a guy with a 4k one? Whats the reason for 8600k being called the best go-to gamer chip? should be 8700k for sure, since, well, you know, its better. Or why would you even call 1080 a gaming card when Titan V runs everything just SO MUCH BETTER. (i know the V is not a "gaming" card, but who gives a fuck, according to this logic neither is 580)

 

An hour ago, id agree on the getting ahead of ourselves

These fellas did a good job summing it up: http://www.nag.co.za/2018/03/20/nvidias-geforce-partner-program-forces-branding-changes-for-asus-gigabyte-and-msi/

[samcool55]

4 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

I'm actually kinda happy the cards will look different, as @leadeater pointed out there is next to no visable difference between cards under the same branding, now is Nvidia using this in part to gain an edge but honestly I think its overall justified to want differentiation.

But they won't...

Only the gamer cards will look different, the non-gamer ones will still look the same.

Just take a look at those, they aren't affected by the GPP because they aren't marketed for gamers and look very similar. Nothing will change about this.

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137111&cm_re=msi_1080ti-_-14-137-111-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137040&cm_re=msi_1060-_-14-137-040-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAAZU7180063&cm_re=msi_rx_580-_-9SIAAZU7180063-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA85V7140964&cm_re=msi_rx_570-_-14-137-256-_-Product

 

Don't forget that the same cooler can be used on different nvidia cards so a 1070 might still look exactly the same as a 1080. Some nvidia cards won't look like some AMD cards anymore but that's it, the confusion will still be there.

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, hobobobo said:

I would. Is a guy with 1080p monitor less of a gamer then a guy with a 4k one? Whats the reason for 8600k being called the best go-to gamer chip? should be 8700k for sure, since, well, you know, its better. Or why would you even call 1080 a gaming card when Titan V runs everything just SO MUCH BETTER. (i know the V is not a "gaming" card, but who gives a fuck, according to this logic neither is 580)

 

An hour ago, id agree on the getting ahead of ourselves

These fellas did a good job summing it up: http://www.nag.co.za/2018/03/20/nvidias-geforce-partner-program-forces-branding-changes-for-asus-gigabyte-and-msi/

The problem with that article is they link to some amazon pages and makes claims about cards being out of stock or removed from the store and replaced. Except if you go to the manufacturers website they still list aorus AMD cards.   We are definitely still ahead of ourselves.

 

 

[hobobobo]

5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The problem with that article is they link to some amazon pages and makes claims about cards being out of stock or removed from the store and replaced. Except if you go to the manufacturers website they still list aorus AMD cards.   We are definitely still ahead of ourselves.

 

 

Well, maybe a bit. Give it a day or two and those product pages will follow suit. Amazon and newegg is higher priority, since those are actual distribution channels, manufacturers websites are just information pages and im not sure they can just delete the old product info since it might break some consumer protection laws.

 

Fun fact - all the aorus branded amd cards left the first page of gpu list on gigabyte site, 6 hours ago 580 56 64 were there

[mr moose]

Just now, hobobobo said:

Well, maybe a bit. Give it a day or two and those product pages will follow suit. Amazon and newegg is higher priority, since those are actual distribution channels, manufacturers websites are just information pages and im not sure they can just delete the old product info since it might break some consumer protection laws.

Yeah they can,  They don't even have to promote their products if they don't want.

 

But yes.  Wait even a week or two and see what starts to change.  We are literally trying to predict an overall market shift from individual cases and some refurbished card sales.

[Humbug]

1 hour ago, hobobobo said:

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-03/gigabyte-gaming-box-rx-580/#update1
 

Take this however you will, to me it seems there is extensive text on whats gaming, gamer oriented etc in GPP and its not just "separate gaming lineups"

RX 580 not gamer focused Hmmm. If this is true That's disgraceful stuff. What a misleading statement. Basically lying about your own product.

[hobobobo]

Just now, mr moose said:

Yeah they can,  They don't even have to promote their products if they don't want.

 

But yes.  Wait even a week or two and see what starts to change.  We are literally trying to predict an overall market shift from individual cases and some refurbished card sales.

Promoting is one thing, removing product info is another. If you sold something you must have information on the product, somebody more familiar with the law will be able to explain why (warranties and other stuff prolly). In all likelyhood, the existing aorus g1 whatever cards are gonna stay on the websites, just gonna be buried to page 2-infinity.

 

This is already plenty of trend, with retailers being breifed on the new marketing and selling techniques and not being able to talk about it. Id say im 85% sure Kyle was right, where a couple of hours ago i was aroun 70% (20% for big corps being scum in general)