nVidia GeForce Partner Program: Well Intention Marketing or Anti-Competitive

[WMGroomAK]

So I read this article by Kyle over on HardOCP and found it interesting if all of his reporting checks out...  Essentially, AMD brought some of the details of nVidia's GeForce Partners Program (GPP) to his attention as well as other tech journalists concerning the potential anti-competitiveness of the program.  As the article is written, it would appear that AIB and OEMs that participate in the program receive support from nVidia on a variety of fronts however, they can only market nVidia products under their gaming lines...  

 

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/03/08/geforce_partner_program_impacts_consumer_choice

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To open up this bit of reporting, which will contain some editorial as well, I think our motives should be clear. In discussions with NVIDIA over the last few weeks, NVIDIA asked us exactly what our concerns were about the GPP program. This was our reply and should frame exactly why we are writing this.

Quote

Kyle Bennett: "I think it [GPP] is going to greatly, and negatively, impact consumer choice in the AIB and OEM computer market. Consumer choice is going to be decimated. Looking at the program guidelines, I truly think that is what will happen and is where my concern lies."

Before we go any further, in the effort to be as transparent as possible, we need to let you know that AMD came to us and presented us with "this story." AMD shopped this story with other websites as well. However, with the information that was presented to us by AMD, there was no story to be told, but it surely pointed to one that was worth looking into. There needed to be some legwork done in collecting facts and interviews.

 

At this point you're probably wondering, "What is NVIDIA GPP?" A couple of weeks after we began questioning NVIDIA on GPP, it put up an article on its blog.nvidia.com domain entitled, "GeForce Partner Program Helps Gamers Know What They're Buying." Here what John Teeple, Director - Partner Marketing at NVIDIA, has to say about GPP.

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In our latest effort to better serve gamers, we're introducing our GeForce Partner Program.

The GPU and software of a gaming PC make all the difference in a gamer's experience. And together with our add-in card and system partners, we're dedicated to building the best PC gaming platform bar-none -- this is the GeForce promise.

The GeForce Partner Program is designed to ensure that gamers have full transparency into the GPU platform and software they're being sold, and can confidently select products that carry the NVIDIA GeForce promise.

This transparency is only possible when NVIDIA brands and partner brands are consistent. So the new program means that we'll be promoting our GPP partner brands across the web, on social media, at events and more. And GPP partners will get early access to our latest innovations, and work closely with our engineering team to bring the newest technologies to gamers.

Partners are signing up, fast. They see the benefit of keeping brands and communication consistent and transparent.

The program isn't exclusive. Partners continue to have the ability to sell and promote products from anyone. Partners choose to sign up for the program, and they can stop participating any time. There's no commitment to make any monetary payments or product discounts for being part of the program.

GPP ensures our engineering and marketing efforts support brands consumers associate with GeForce. That transparency will give gamers the confidence needed to make their purchase, whichever products they choose

...

We have contacted seven companies about their part in NVIDIA GPP and not one of the seven would talk to us on the record if they spoke to us about it at all. The ones that did speak to us have done so anonymously, in fear of losing their jobs, or having retribution placed upon them or their companies by NVIDIA. All of the people that I did interview at AIBs and at OEMs did however have the same thoughts on GPP. 1.) They think that it has terms that are likely illegal. 2.) GPP is likely going to tremendously hurt consumers' choices. 3.) It will disrupt business with the companies that they are currently doing business with, namely AMD and Intel.

 

The crux of the issue with NVIDIA GPP comes down to a single requirement in order to be part of GPP. In order to have access to the GPP program, its partners must have its "Gaming Brand Aligned Exclusively With GeForce." I have read documents with this requirement spelled out on it.

 

I definitely encourage going over and reading the whole article.  It brings into question though as to whether this is marketing gone bad on nVidia's part?  Is this anti-competitive?  Does it open nVidia up for potential lawsuits? Or is it all sour grapes from AMD?  I'm personally thinking that it might be a little bit of nVidia trying to further strengthen their market position while AMD also trying to play whistleblower...  Again, so far all of this is based off of Kyle's article, however, it could prove to be an interesting discussion (as long as we don't go down the fanboy/flame war path).

 

Forbes Article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/03/08/report-alleges-new-nvidia-program-engages-in-monopolistic-anti-consumer-practices/#8cb925922419

 

PCPer Link: https://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/GeForce-Partner-Program-has-some-Kool-Aid-it-would-you-try

 

 

[TrigrH]

11 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

...if it chooses not to be part of GPP, it will lose the benefits of GPP which include: high-effort engineering engagements -- early tech engagement -- launch partner status -- game bundling -- sales rebate programs -- social media and PR support -- marketing reports -- Marketing Development Funds (MDF).

this can't be right? can it?

[dcgreen2k]

5 minutes ago, TrigrH said:

this can't be right? can it?

Well, Nvidia does have a lot of money...

[manikyath]

just one thing.. how can this be anti-competitive against intel?

[WMGroomAK]

6 minutes ago, TrigrH said:

this can't be right? can it?

I would love to have more sources to report from, but hopefully with at least Kyle's report out there and more tech sites picking up his report nVidia will at least clear some of this up...

[Blademaster91]

Doesn't AMD have a similar program as well?

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, manikyath said:

just one thing.. how can this be anti-competitive against intel?

Can't be anti competitive against Intel until we get another Larabee from them.

[WMGroomAK]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Doesn't AMD have a similar program as well?

I'm sure AMD has some kind of program. I think one of the questions is whether their partner program (or any partner program) limits what can and cannot be marketed or sold by a company.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

I'm sure AMD has some kind of program. I think one of the questions is whether their partner program (or any partner program) limits what can and cannot be marketed or sold by a company.

Not likely, no one would sign up to AMD's otherwise. Would you pick market access to only AMD or only Nvidia? I know which I'd choose if it came down to that so no, AMD wouldn't be that dumb in their position.

[manikyath]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Can't be anti competitive against Intel until we get another Larabee from them.

well.. because the article states that its anticompetitive against AMD and intel.. i can understand AMD, but because intel's on that list i kinda have to question all of it.. honestly..

 

in the end, all of this feels like the entire opinion depends on the light you put it in.. and if it was truly so anticompetitive "and probably illegal" i wonder why AMD decided to tip off media outlets, instead of taking direct legal action?

 

i'm sure that the partner program is restrictive and focusses towards making partners sell the products nvidia wants them to sell.. that said, isnt that the definition of a partner program?

[WMGroomAK]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

well.. because the article states that its anticompetitive against AMD and intel.. i can understand AMD, but because intel's on that list i kinda have to question all of it.. honestly..

It's not like Intel is completely out of the GPU market...  They still have their iGPUs and they have a partnership with AMD for the Hades Canyon chips.  My opinion is that those were probably what the author was referring to when referring to Intel.  

[Deus Voltage]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

well.. because the article states that its anticompetitive against AMD and intel.. i can understand AMD, but because intel's on that list i kinda have to question all of it.. honestly..

 

When it comes to Intel, I'd guess that it could be due to its dominance of the GPU market share (yes you heard that correctly)

I believe that currently Intel has over 60% of the GPU market share. This is mainly due to the fact that most laptops that are sold come with an integrated Intel chip. Funny how the market works.

 

[manikyath]

Just now, WMGroomAK said:

It's not like Intel is completely out of the GPU market...  They still have their iGPUs and they have a partnership with AMD for the Hades Canyon chips.  My opinion is that those were probably what the author was referring to when referring to Intel.  

but still.. intel's not in the boat with nvidia about anything i'm aware of, so i fail to see how this would make a notable difference for them.. i mean, out of the great variety of 3 x86 cpu manufacturers.. i seriously doubt that nvidia is gonna choose via technologies over intel

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, Deus Voltage said:

When it comes to Intel, I'd guess that it could be due to its dominance of the GPU market share (yes you heard that correctly)

I believe that currently Intel has over 60% of the GPU market share. This is mainly due to the fact that most laptops that are sold come with an integrated Intel chip. Funny how the market works.

well.. because thats intel's biggest selling point, right?

[WMGroomAK]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

but still.. intel's not in the boat with nvidia about anything i'm aware of, so i fail to see how this would make a notable difference for them.. i mean, out of the great variety of 3 x86 cpu manufacturers.. i seriously doubt that nvidia is gonna choose via technologies over intel

Might fall into one of those unintended consequences of OEMs being a part of the program...  Depending on how things are worded, it could easily turn into a situation where a company like Dell could not market a low-end laptop with a Hades Canyon chipset as an Alienware laptop due to the agreement.

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, WMGroomAK said:

Might fall into one of those unintended consequences of OEMs being a part of the program...  Depending on how things are worded, it could easily turn into a situation where a company like Dell could not market a low-end laptop with a Hades Canyon chipset as an Alienware laptop due to the agreement.

but thats a dell problem, not an intel problem.

[Deus Voltage]

4 minutes ago, manikyath said:

well.. because thats intel's biggest selling point, right?

Ironically, yes. 

[WMGroomAK]

Just now, manikyath said:

but thats a dell problem, not an intel problem.

I would think it's a problem for both...  It would mean that Dell and/or other OEMs may not purchase as many Hades Canyon from Intel as they otherwise might have.  

[Derangel]

3 minutes ago, manikyath said:

but thats a dell problem, not an intel problem.

Who's problem it is is irrelevant. It is still anti-competitive.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, manikyath said:

but thats a dell problem, not an intel problem.

It's an Intel problem if they want to market that platform as a gaming platform and they don't have access to the top laptop brands because of it. There are many GTX 1060 based gaming laptops under the top laptop gaming branding on the market and if you're forced to compete with that under for example the Dell Inspiron branding you'll be on the back foot every time, I would want to sell under the Alienware branding not Inspiron.

[Dabombinable]

16 minutes ago, manikyath said:

well.. because the article states that its anticompetitive against AMD and intel.. i can understand AMD, but because intel's on that list i kinda have to question all of it.. honestly..

 

in the end, all of this feels like the entire opinion depends on the light you put it in.. and if it was truly so anticompetitive "and probably illegal" i wonder why AMD decided to tip off media outlets, instead of taking direct legal action?

 

i'm sure that the partner program is restrictive and focusses towards making partners sell the products nvidia wants them to sell.. that said, isnt that the definition of a partner program?

With the way the media is working at the moment, its not really surprising that AMD went to the media instead of pressing for legal action-they want Nvidia tried in the court of public opinion as it were because its more likely to have an effect.

[laminutederire]

7 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

With the way the media is working at the moment, its not really surprising that AMD went to the media instead of pressing for legal action-they want Nvidia tried in the court of public opinion as it were because its more likely to have an effect.

Also they might have learned that suing is quite expensive, takes a lot of time and has possibly even more lobbying than in the media.. (it was quite horrendous when they had to fight Intel in courts since Intel had the money basically, so it should unfortunately be the same with Nvidia, hence the new tactics

[cj09beira]

nvidea is showing it self as what i thought they were, just like intel they have no morals, and will do shady stuff instead of competing on a plain field, guess they aren't getting my money anytime soon.

in a world of educated responsible consumers those actions would have serious consequences but as we have seen time and time again consumers are blind sheep, that are slowing us down in the long run. (close rant.exe)

[Guest The Viking]

AMD is already fighting lawsuits over the meltdown/spectre thing (some dumb people who bought a 100$ cpu want to win the jackpott, as well as scummy lawyers...), I doubt they want more. Remember they already had to spend a fortune on the intel lawsuit and got basically nothing out of it (ok, 1 billion, but seeing their debt...).

 

So, is this another case for the European Commission? After Intel and Qualcomm, is nvidia next? another extra billion? I'm not sure there's much one can do here, as they aren't really paying any rebates and such?

[AresKrieger]

31 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

nvidea is showing it self as what i thought they were, just like intel they have no morals, and will do shady stuff instead of competing on a plain field, guess they aren't getting my money anytime soon.

The only issue I have with that statement is that AMD isn't any better they are just not in a dominant position at the moment due to poor marketing and fiscal decisions, public companies are always like this as the CEOs are beholden to share holders, the more the company is worth the worse it gets.

 

1 hour ago, WMGroomAK said:

Does it open nVidia up for potential lawsuits

No, not really and given that this is in essence hearsay from a rival company it is going to be in the worst non slanderous light, granted Nvidia is going to do anything they can to better their position but no legit (you can sue for anything its just matter of whether a judge will tell laugh you out of court or not) lawsuit will come of this as it currently stands (Nvidia could eventually pull something to change that)

 

Oh and as for the title, it is neither; marketing is never well intentioned as the ends justify the means. But if it were truly anti competitive they would have already been sued.