Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[AlwaysFSX]

1 hour ago, terrytek said:

care to explain? i don't know if i've really seen that happen with nissan.

Stupid things like for windshield wipers having a selectable option, set low, and set high. Why they did that I don't know, it's pointless engineering when they could do something better with their time and money like making their seats and steering wheels more ergonomic and comfortable to use.

[carguy86]

2 hours ago, techswede said:

Missed the pickup discussion. But i wouldn't go for a nissan or a toyota. (Except for a certain nissan d21 that i've mentioned repeatedly in here) 

If i was going for a modern pickup as a work truck i'd go for a Honda ridgeline

 

IF IT HAD A FUCKING DIESEL OPTION.. damn you honda. damn you to hell!

This is neat enough for me to want it though

 

So im going to put a pallet with an engine on that bed and then puncture, i would have a spare but it would be useless.... GOOD JOB HONDA!

[AlwaysFSX]

1 hour ago, vinyldash303 said:

What? Being fwd and based off a Minivan? Or the cargo space that will leak over time?

 

GM had the same issue with the Avelanche droppable wall between the cab and bed. 

Avalanche was fucking cool though, especially if you did some weather stripping on the plastic pieces it was great.

[techswede]

1 hour ago, vinyldash303 said:

What? Being fwd and based off a Minivan? Or the cargo space that will leak over time?

 

GM had the same issue with the Avelanche droppable wall between the cab and bed. 

fwd bias four wheel drive system. Which is good

Don't see why it being based on a minivan is a problem.

it looks like it would be properly sealed. Either way i'd just keep tools in there.

27 minutes ago, Strando123 said:

So im going to put a pallet with an engine on that bed and then puncture, i would have a spare but it would be useless.... GOOD JOB HONDA!

Put the engine in the front of the bed without a pallet and ratchet strap it down. 

These should be standard on all trucks

[carguy86]

9 minutes ago, techswede said:

fwd bias four wheel drive system. Which is good

Don't see why it being based on a minivan is a problem.

it looks like it would be properly sealed. Either way i'd just keep tools in there.

Put the engine in the front of the bed without a pallet and ratchet strap it down. 

These should be standard on all trucks

 

What are you???? A freak? You dont treat nice things that way, you save them for when you stomp on the throttle and might hit a tree at speeds that could potentialy not be fatal but most likely will be fatal, that way you dont need to wake up and think "shit i broke my new engine" or "fuck, my car is totaled"

[techswede]

Just now, Strando123 said:

What are you???? A freak? You dont treat nice things that way, you save them for when you stomp on the throttle and might hit a tree at speeds that could potentialy not be fatal but most likely will be fatal, that way you dont need to wake up and think "shit i broke my new engine" or "fuck, my car is totaled"

If an engine can't survive a trip home in the bed of a truck.. Then its just a hunk of shit

[chaozbandit]

 

[AlwaysFSX]

15 minutes ago, techswede said:

If an engine can't survive a trip home in the bed of a truck.. Then its just a hunk of shit

Unless the problem is the bed of the truck being a hunk of shit.

[PandaCopyRight]

 

[techswede]

1 minute ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Unless the problem is the bed of the truck being a hunk of shit.

Which it rarely is. 

[AlwaysFSX]

18 minutes ago, techswede said:

Which it rarely is. 

Minivan with a bed? I'm willing to wager it's not great.

[warmmilk]

I was really excited about this but so far pretty disappointed with the testing.  

all the acceleration tests were unrealistic... they raced to 60km and 80km, thats 37mph and 50mph.  who races in a straight line to such a low speed?  and then the roll on test they did in 2nd gear starting at 20km (12mph!), really?  12mph is 1st gear, even at an autox.

 

and the autox test, basically the car that went last went faster.  autox is really something they should have gotten an experienced driver for.  a noob autocrosser will be the biggest difference by a long shot.

 

I really hope the do a road course test and an acceleration and roll tests that actually make sense.

 

 

 

[warmmilk]

7 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

Don't know if this was posted so

 

 

I knew I should have checked more than the last page when I posted about this... haha.  my thoughts above in my post

5 hours ago, MEC-777 said:

Ok, I watched this last night as soon as it popped up in my notifications. There are a few things that need to be said about their testing/methodology, and yeah, I'm going to ramble on about turbos vs SC again for a couple minutes, but please bear with me here.  (Spoiler alert - if you haven't watched it, go watch it first,then read below).

 

The autocross test:

I'm glad Moog mentioned it and caught on during the longer autocross test, because he was exactly right; they were learning the track with each pass and because the cars are so similarly setup, the time variance was well within the margin or error - for both the short and long track tests. I would have called the results from both inconclusive or a draw.  

 

The roll on test:

Several things I took issue with here...

-For the love of god, "turbo lag" is NOT the time it takes for the turbo to make boost from basically off-idle or OUTSIDE the efficiency range of the turbo. Turbo lag is the time it takes for the turbo to make boost while operating the engine WITHIN the efficiency range of the turbo. So in this case, from anything above about 3000rpm. This does showcase the one area where the SC shines, but honestly, in 99% of any form of racing, you're not needing to floor it down around 2000rpm anyways.  

-Flooring the engine to WOT at very low rpm in a turbo car or NA car is not the best way to get the best acceleration. The intake air velocity basically stalls for a moment, causing the engine to bog. If you more gently open the throttle, you keep the intake velocity up, allowing the rpm to climb along with it and minimize the bogging. It's also a great way to induce LSPI, which we've talked about before a few times.

 

Turbo flutter:

Yeah, they've got some compressor surge going on with that setup. They either need a softer spring in the BOV, a larger BOV or  something else isn't quite right. I was a little surprised to hear it, considering how knowledgeable these guys are and the fact that they made a video specifically about this bad phenomenon. This also doesn't help re-building boost during quick-shifts. 

 

How I would have tested these two cars:

-To start off, I would have fixed that turbo flutter right away. It's not good, will harm the turbo in the long run and hinders performance during quick-shifts.

-I would test on an autocross course, both technical (lower speed) and more open (higher speed), as they did, only I would test in the DRY to reduce time variance issues due to low grip. I would also test each car across at least 5 runs with each driver, reducing the factor of "learning the track". This, I think, would give both cars a much more equal opportunity. Though I think they would be very close, regardless. Where the SC car has that instant power, the turbo car makes up for it in more overall power, once it comes on. 

-I would also test on a road course race track as well as driving on the street (though they said they will test that later on).

-Roll on tests should be with both cars above at least 3000rpm. Flooring it from below that isn't really a practical test, IMO as that is a very unusual situation. You shouldn't be lugging the engine at low rpm anyways, whether it's turbo or SC. 

 

Other quick thoughts: Funny how at the end, they both preferred the turbo car. It feels (and sounds) more exciting and I think that's what it basically boils down to. Dat surging wave of torque. I also agree with their observations that the SC would be better for a beginner, just learning to race, as the power is more controllable. But later on, as you improve your skills and learn to tame the power, the turbo car you can get more performance out of, in the end. All in all, a decently fair assessment with a few minor issues, IMO.

 

Both cars look like a ton of fun to drive.

agree for the post part.  the compressor surge sound you're refering may be the BOV.  there are a few BOV's on the market made specifically to sound like that cause people think its cool.  so it may or may not be compressor surge.

 

every turbo nerd always gets their panties in a bunch over "lag".  its cause "boost threshold" takes way to long to say and everyone knows what people mean when they say lag.  personally I use the term lag only in the strict definition of the word, as in delay.  whether I'm talking about turbo's, throttle, video games, etc.  I'd only use the term lag in the correct way it refers to turbo's if I'm having a technical discussion about a specific setup.  I'm not gonna floor a turbo miata at 1500 rpm and yell "boooooost threshooooold!!!!!!!"  

I mean come on, seriously, get over it (not just you, everybody that gets their panties in a bunch over "lag")

[AlwaysFSX]

9 minutes ago, warmmilk said:

I'm not gonna floor a turbo miata at 1500 rpm and yell "boooooost threshooooold!!!!!!!" 

So I guess I shouldn't do that anymore driving on freeway on ramps huh?

[techswede]

28 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Minivan with a bed? I'm willing to wager it's not great.

Its based on a platform that it shares with a minivan. It isn't body on frame but it should be strong enough for most applications.

The more i look at it the less i like it though. Only available in a crew cab short bed config with a petrol engine? Fuck off honda.

Guess the Isuzu KB is the only japanese truck i'd buy at the moment

Nothing fancy. A turbodiesel long bed that does what a truck needs to do

[AlwaysFSX]

Just now, techswede said:

Its based on a platform that it shares with a minivan. It isn't body on frame but it should be strong enough for most applications.

The more i look at it the less i like it though. Only available in a crew cab short bed config with a petrol engine? Fuck off honda.

Guess the Isuzu KB is the only japanese truck i'd buy at the moment

Nothing fancy. A turbodiesel long bed that does what a truck needs to do

I wish there would be options for utility box beds that had more bed space instead of the industry standard kinda ones. It'd be pretty handy.

[techswede]

1 minute ago, AlwaysFSX said:

I wish there would be options for utility box beds that had more bed space instead of the industry standard kinda ones. It'd be pretty handy.

I'd be happy with one of these

Would be perfect for two dirt bikes and a bunch of tools

[warmmilk]

8 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

So I guess I shouldn't do that anymore driving on freeway on ramps huh?

I mean whatever floats your boat... haha  

[RevoltTrain]

Christmas shopping is expensive. Especially when you have all girls to shop for. Looking forward to shopping for my Papa though. Get him some new tools. I'll be in my comfort zone then

[techswede]

 

[MEC-777]

47 minutes ago, warmmilk said:

I knew I should have checked more than the last page when I posted about this... haha.  my thoughts above in my post

agree for the post part.  the compressor surge sound you're refering may be the BOV.  there are a few BOV's on the market made specifically to sound like that cause people think its cool.  so it may or may not be compressor surge.

 

every turbo nerd always gets their panties in a bunch over "lag".  its cause "boost threshold" takes way to long to say and everyone knows what people mean when they say lag.  personally I use the term lag only in the strict definition of the word, as in delay.  whether I'm talking about turbo's, throttle, video games, etc.  I'd only use the term lag in the correct way it refers to turbo's if I'm having a technical discussion about a specific setup.  I'm not gonna floor a turbo miata at 1500 rpm and yell "boooooost threshooooold!!!!!!!"  

I mean come on, seriously, get over it (not just you, everybody that gets their panties in a bunch over "lag")

I've never heard of any BOV designed to make the chatter sound. If it does, that's compressor surge, as far as I'm concerned, because it means the valve in the BOV is also chattering/pulsing, creating pressure waves in the charge pipe.  

 

I know what you mean with the whole "lag" thing. I'm just so tired of the term/concept being misused and misunderstood. For example; someone will say "oh, there's so much lag in this car." while driving it with the engine outside the boost threshold, when in actuality, that same car can build boost with almost no lag while driving with the engine within the boost threshold. So in truth; it has very little lag, yet is said to be "laggy". It's very misleading if you don't understand the nature of how turbos operate. 

[MEC-777]

8 minutes ago, techswede said:

 

I want to see this thing do some pulling...

[techswede]

3 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

I want to see this thing do some pulling...

Can't find any footage of that unfortunately  

[FuzzyYellow]

4 hours ago, techswede said:

Missed the pickup discussion. But i wouldn't go for a nissan or a toyota. (Except for a certain nissan d21 that i've mentioned repeatedly in here) 

If i was going for a modern pickup as a work truck i'd go for a Honda ridgeline

IF IT HAD A FUCKING DIESEL OPTION.. damn you honda. damn you to hell!

This is neat enough for me to want it though

but towing?

[techswede]

1 minute ago, FuzzyYellow said:

but towing?

You can tow enough with it. The end