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DannyBoy312

VA panel ok for gaming?

12 minutes ago, DannyBoy312 said:

Hello everyone.

 

So... VA panels and gaming. I'm currently looking into upgrading my current TN gaming display in favor of something a bit larger and with better viewing angles and color reproduction. I'd like to get a panel with a high refresh rate and because I can't shell out $600+ for an Asus ROG IPS, 144HZ, 1440P, 'everything but the kitchen sink' display, VA panels caught my eye. They seem to be a great middle of the road option between TN and IPS and everything looked hunky dory until I caught wind of a possible issue with gaming: VA panel ghosting and smearing. My question is, is this still an issue that will forever plague this tech or is it a relic of a bygone development stage?

I have been using one of these for a couple of months now, gaming hard.
https://www.asus.com/us/Monitors/ROG-Strix-XG32VQ/ProductPrint/    (I think out of your stated budget)

Overall I am very happy with it, can't say I have noticed ghosting or smearing to effect gameplay. But it is there compared to my previous (very good) TN.

The only mainstream display technology I have not extensively gamed on is IPS which will be my next purchase to test through.

My current monitor ticks many boxes for me, and is reasonably priced. 

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4 hours ago, DannyBoy312 said:

Will do, I did plan on trying Dual Link DVI as well... I think I'll also hook up my old TN gaming panel to see if it's just an issue with Far Cry 5. Apparently, others had a similar ghosting issue in Far Cry 4 so we'll see. If it remains across the TN as well as the different inputs I'll have to dive deeper. The odd thing is that I didn't seem to notice the problem a few days ago while playing...

Aw man, I am feeling your pain.

I could notice but seem to not notice it on my panel, this is in Squad at 85fps pretty constant, 1440p and 1.5 super sampling. Let us know if it is FarCry or the panel as this is very useful info.

I am guessing each assembler (MSI, Asus etc) implements things different and maybe I got lucky?


CPU Intel i7 7700K @5Ghz Motherboard ROG Maximus Hero IX RAM Corsair Vengeance 32GB 3000MHz 

GPU MSI Gaming X 1080ti Case Corsair Vengeance C70 Storage SSD Boot plus Samsung 960 Evo M.2 nvme storage 

PSU Corsair RM750W Gold Display Asus ROG Strix XG32VQ 144Hz 1440p Cooling Corsair H100i V2 

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VR HTC Vive, Audio Strap Motion Platform DOF Reality 2 DOF

 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
30 minutes ago, ShoshinUK said:

Aw man, I am feeling your pain.

I could notice but seem to not notice it on my panel, this is in Squad at 85fps pretty constant, 1440p and 1.5 super sampling. Let us know if it is FarCry or the panel as this is very useful info.

I am guessing each assembler (MSI, Asus etc) implements things different and maybe I got lucky?

Yeah, will do. I'll be getting around to testing it tomorrow.

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8 hours ago, DannyBoy312 said:

Will do, I did plan on trying Dual Link DVI as well... I think I'll also hook up my old TN gaming panel to see if it's just an issue with Far Cry 5. Apparently, others had a similar ghosting issue in Far Cry 4 so we'll see. If it remains across the TN as well as the different inputs I'll have to dive deeper. The odd thing is that I didn't seem to notice the problem a few days ago while playing...

Looking at the MSI monitor it seems like thats TN not VA, not sure if you care anymore but Acer makes a very very similar monitor except its VA to the one you got. 

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824011198&ignorebbr=1

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Just to pitch in, I got the VAST ultrawide 100hz monitor, and while it's not a dealbreaker, I personally find the ghosting quite distracting compared to my old 144hz TN panel. In fairness however, it's a new panel, by a new company, on a newish technology, and it's definitely on the cheap end of the spectrum. From the posts on Massdrop, it seems either it's less noticeable to some, or perhaps some of the panels are better than others in that batch, so if you're going with a trusted brand, it'll might be less noticeable. That's my 2 cents. 

 

TL;DR: You'll probably like it, but don't be afraid to return it if you don't.

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3 hours ago, Pittman90 said:

Looking at the MSI monitor it seems like thats TN not VA, not sure if you care anymore but Acer makes a very very similar monitor except its VA to the one you got. 

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824011198&ignorebbr=1

it's VA, heres the full spec

https://www.msi.com/Monitor/Optix-AG32C/Specification


CPU Intel i7 7700K @5Ghz Motherboard ROG Maximus Hero IX RAM Corsair Vengeance 32GB 3000MHz 

GPU MSI Gaming X 1080ti Case Corsair Vengeance C70 Storage SSD Boot plus Samsung 960 Evo M.2 nvme storage 

PSU Corsair RM750W Gold Display Asus ROG Strix XG32VQ 144Hz 1440p Cooling Corsair H100i V2 

Keyboard Corsair K65 Rapidfire Mouse Roccat Kone Aimo Audio MK3 Fostex T50RP + Schiit Magni 3 AMP and Modi 2 DAC 
Operating System Win 10

VR HTC Vive, Audio Strap Motion Platform DOF Reality 2 DOF

 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Alright so after about an hour and a half of testing different known good cables (HDMI & Dual Link DVI), hooking up my old TN (with the same cables) and even mirroring the displays at different refresh rates, cable swaps, different resolutions, and on and on. The issue is indeed the new monitor.

 

List of what I tested:

 

  • Running the displays independently and judging subjectively.
  • Mirroring displays (matching refresh rates, matching cables) for side-by-side (more objective) comparison.
  • Multiple games (Call of Duty MW3, Watch Dogs 2, Far Cry 5) with A LOT of video settings tweaking.
  • Tweaking Nvidia Control Panel settings one at a time (AA override, various Vertical Sync settings, Pre-rendered frames, etc.)

 

So, I've done my due diligence, and while I REALLY wanted to like the monitor I simply can not stand the ghosting and smearing imposed by this panel. Now, on to eBay...-_- 

 

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5 hours ago, DannyBoy312 said:

Alright so after about an hour and a half of testing different known good cables (HDMI & Dual Link DVI), hooking up my old TN (with the same cables) and even mirroring the displays at different refresh rates, cable swaps, different resolutions, and on and on. The issue is indeed the new monitor.

 

List of what I tested:

 

  • Running the displays independently and judging subjectively.
  • Mirroring displays (matching refresh rates, matching cables) for side-by-side (more objective) comparison.
  • Multiple games (Call of Duty MW3, Watch Dogs 2, Far Cry 5) with A LOT of video settings tweaking.
  • Tweaking Nvidia Control Panel settings one at a time (AA override, various Vertical Sync settings, Pre-rendered frames, etc.)

 

So, I've done my due diligence, and while I REALLY wanted to like the monitor I simply can not stand the ghosting and smearing imposed by this panel. Now, on to eBay...-_- 

 

I do beleve your now at the point where ,unfortunatly, not enough people have reached. Realising LCD bassed screens have major issues and should not be as popular as they have become.

 

LCD as a display technology is inferior to its predicesors.

TN panels have horrible image quality

IPS have horrible glow / light bleed

VA have issue with pixel response.

All LCD have poor black levels.

 

In the end you not a snob, ur just looking for a good VDU, which u wont find while looking at LCD's.

 

Alass, u have 4 options. None very good

 

Find a 'good' second hand 42" Plasma TV, which due to their age is becoming harder and harder.

Find a 'good' used CRT monitor, they are even older and a PITA to ship.

Buy an expensive AF and huge, 55" OLED TV.

Put up with LCD and choose the lesser of 3 evils. VA,TN , IPS

 

A note on VA and ghosting. There are panels that dont ghost, not ALL VA's have this issue, you just have to find indepth reviews on VA panels monitors to find one with no ghosting. blurbusters are a good placeoot look.

if I had to replace my Plasma now, which is becoming mroe and more a possibility as time goes by (its old, its slowly dieing) i would find a VA LCD replacment to tide me by untill 40-50" OLED's arive. I cant stand IPS glow, or the horrible image quality of TN.


CPU: Intel i7 3930k w/OC & EK Supremacy EVO Block | Motherboard: Asus P9x79 Pro  | RAM: G.Skill 4x4 1866 CL9 | PSU: Seasonic Platinum 1000w | VDU: Panasonic 42" Plasma |

GPU: Gigabyte 1080ti Gaming OC w/OC & Barrow Block | SoundCard: Asus Xonar D2X - FiiO X3K DAP/DAC for Headphones | Case: Phantek Enthoo Primo White |

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD + Samsung 850 Evo 256GB SSD | Cooling: XSPC D5 Photon 270 Res & Pump | 2x XSPC AX240 White Rads (Push) | NexXxos Monsta 80x240 Rad (Push/Pull) |

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2 hours ago, SolarNova said:

I do beleve your now at the point where ,unfortunatly, not enough people have reached. Realising LCD bassed screens have major issues and should not be as popular as they have become.

 

LCD as a display technology is inferior to its predicesors.

TN panels have horrible image quality

IPS have horrible glow / light bleed

VA have issue with pixel response.

All LCD have poor black levels.

 

In the end you not a snob, ur just looking for a good VDU, which u wont find while looking at LCD's.

 

Alass, u have 4 options. None very good

 

Find a 'good' second hand 42" Plasma TV, which due to their age is becoming harder and harder.

Find a 'good' used CRT monitor, they are even older and a PITA to ship.

Buy an expensive AF and huge, 55" OLED TV.

Put up with LCD and choose the lesser of 3 evils. VA,TN , IPS

 

A note on VA and ghosting. There are panels that dont ghost, not ALL VA's have this issue, you just have to find indepth reviews on VA panels monitors to find one with no ghosting. blurbusters are a good placeoot look.

if I had to replace my Plasma now, which is becoming mroe and more a possibility as time goes by (its old, its slowly dieing) i would find a VA LCD replacment to tide me by untill 40-50" OLED's arive. I cant stand IPS glow, or the horrible image quality of TN.

 

Plasma's also put out a lot of EM radiation, so it can mess with radio, notable if you use RF devices, especially wireless headphones (the ones that use RF like Sennheiser's basic ones). OLED and CRT still have issues when used for desktop applications due to their burn in. All three are arguable poorly suited for sitting on a desk. Every screen technology has drawbacks. I'd argue that TN/IPS are the easiest to adapt to a desktop experience while mitigating downsides. I personally use an LCD monitor combined with a projector, but a projector requires you to build a room around it.

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20 hours ago, Durandul said:

 

Plasma's also put out a lot of EM radiation, so it can mess with radio, notable if you use RF devices, especially wireless headphones (the ones that use RF like Sennheiser's basic ones). OLED and CRT still have issues when used for desktop applications due to their burn in. All three are arguable poorly suited for sitting on a desk. Every screen technology has drawbacks. I'd argue that TN/IPS are the easiest to adapt to a desktop experience while mitigating downsides. I personally use an LCD monitor combined with a projector, but a projector requires you to build a room around it.

The difference being that the draw backs of Plasma, CRT, and OLED, are not with the picture quality. Where as the drawbacks with LCD all affect picture quality.

And since a TV or Monitors main purpose is to produce a picture, the idea that the most prevailent technology being used todays is using the 1 tech out of the 4 which has the worst image, is irritating to say the least.

OLED 'burn in' is no worse than Plasma towards the end. Check out ritings onging OLED burn in tests. Honestly people need to stop with the whole OLED burn in thing, its not as big an issue as it was with 1st Gen OLED's.

If people keep on spreading misinformation on OLED burn in , its not going to help the VDU industry move away from the POS technology that is LCD. Even Linus is guilty of this when he stated that an OLED TV isnt ideal due to burn in, which is incorrect, OLED are fine for PC use and gaming, so long as you treat it correctly, like everyone had to when all we had was CRT's.

I use a Plasma as we speak, its only ever been used for my PC, its old, its on its way out, but even after years and years of use with my PC, i have no screen burn.

 

 


CPU: Intel i7 3930k w/OC & EK Supremacy EVO Block | Motherboard: Asus P9x79 Pro  | RAM: G.Skill 4x4 1866 CL9 | PSU: Seasonic Platinum 1000w | VDU: Panasonic 42" Plasma |

GPU: Gigabyte 1080ti Gaming OC w/OC & Barrow Block | SoundCard: Asus Xonar D2X - FiiO X3K DAP/DAC for Headphones | Case: Phantek Enthoo Primo White |

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD + Samsung 850 Evo 256GB SSD | Cooling: XSPC D5 Photon 270 Res & Pump | 2x XSPC AX240 White Rads (Push) | NexXxos Monsta 80x240 Rad (Push/Pull) |

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 4/6/2018 at 2:06 PM, SolarNova said:

I do beleve your now at the point where ,unfortunatly, not enough people have reached. Realising LCD bassed screens have major issues and should not be as popular as they have become.

 

LCD as a display technology is inferior to its predicesors.

TN panels have horrible image quality

IPS have horrible glow / light bleed

VA have issue with pixel response.

All LCD have poor black levels.

 

In the end you not a snob, ur just looking for a good VDU, which u wont find while looking at LCD's.

 

Alass, u have 4 options. None very good

 

Find a 'good' second hand 42" Plasma TV, which due to their age is becoming harder and harder.

Find a 'good' used CRT monitor, they are even older and a PITA to ship.

Buy an expensive AF and huge, 55" OLED TV.

Put up with LCD and choose the lesser of 3 evils. VA,TN , IPS

 

A note on VA and ghosting. There are panels that dont ghost, not ALL VA's have this issue, you just have to find indepth reviews on VA panels monitors to find one with no ghosting. blurbusters are a good placeoot look.

if I had to replace my Plasma now, which is becoming mroe and more a possibility as time goes by (its old, its slowly dieing) i would find a VA LCD replacment to tide me by untill 40-50" OLED's arive. I cant stand IPS glow, or the horrible image quality of TN.

Have you seen a recent TN panel? The quality issue only really comes down to the viewing angles at this point, I mean sure I wouldn't use it for professional video editing but, each technology really, is slowly ironing out their inherent flaws. At this point, each of the 3 LCD types can be solid options for their intended audiences: TNs for people who need fast response times for FPSs and the like (assuming the panel itself is of good quality;) VAs for people who want exceptional contrast ratio and a decent panel for prosumer video/image editing and even light gaming duty; and IPS for people who demand perfect on-point color accuracy for professional applications and even now they are good for exceptional gaming experiences (again assuming that the panel is of a high quality.)

 

No, OLEDs are not practical at this point in time and why would you purchase a dead technology (plasma), it's dead for a reason. And finally, like plasma, CRTs are dead and gone for a reason, the technology has been replaced by much better alternatives. Believe me, I tried gaming on a CRT with my old gaming machine (~2009) and the experience was far outmatched by even a decent TN LCD even back then.

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On 4/6/2018 at 5:01 PM, Durandul said:

 

Plasma's also put out a lot of EM radiation, so it can mess with radio, notable if you use RF devices, especially wireless headphones (the ones that use RF like Sennheiser's basic ones). OLED and CRT still have issues when used for desktop applications due to their burn in. All three are arguable poorly suited for sitting on a desk. Every screen technology has drawbacks. I'd argue that TN/IPS are the easiest to adapt to a desktop experience while mitigating downsides. I personally use an LCD monitor combined with a projector, but a projector requires you to build a room around it.

oh shoot I did not know that. No wonder my new high performance wifi router has a bit of trouble reaching my room even with different arena placements and different settings in the web GUI.

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2 hours ago, DannyBoy312 said:

Have you seen a recent TN panel? The quality issue only really comes down to the viewing angles at this point, I mean sure I wouldn't use it for professional video editing but, each technology really, is slowly ironing out their inherent flaws. At this point, each of the 3 LCD types can be solid options for their intended audiences: TNs for people who need fast response times for FPSs and the like (assuming the panel itself is of good quality;) VAs for people who want exceptional contrast ratio and a decent panel for prosumer video/image editing and even light gaming duty; and IPS for people who demand perfect on-point color accuracy for professional applications and even now they are good for exceptional gaming experiences (again assuming that the panel is of a high quality.)

 

No, OLEDs are not practical at this point in time and why would you purchase a dead technology (plasma), it's dead for a reason. And finally, like plasma, CRTs are dead and gone for a reason, the technology has been replaced by much better alternatives. Believe me, I tried gaming on a CRT with my old gaming machine (~2009) and the experience was far outmatched by even a decent TN LCD even back then.

I would happily bet on a Sony GDM FW900 CRT monitor vs almost any modern day LCD Monitor.

 

You right though, Plasma and CRT are dead for a reason, but that reason isnt down to their picture quality, most of it is down to marketing, poor marketing by the major Plasma players (like panasonic who didnt see LCD as a serious threat), and succesfull Hype marketing for LCD.  The average consumer doesnt know jack all about TV's and monitors and will by what they are told is the next best, or current best thing. So LCD won.

Yea OLED isnt practical due to the available size range currently, its the one and only reaons i have yet to buy one to replace my aging Plasma, 55" is just to big. Be sure though, once they get smaller OLED should be even more a consideration for VDU choice. I'd jump at a 40" OLED.

 

LCD will eventualy Die, or more likely evolve into a display technology that is actualy worthy of succeeding Plasma and CRT, but it isnt there yet.

The fact you have to choose between TN, IPS, and VA for different aspects of picture quality just proves that. You should be able to get ALL those good aspects in 1 panel.

For an example of what i mean ill mention again the GDM Fw900, it has high referesh, high resolution, 16:10 aspect, and high quality image quality. Once an LCD arives that can do the same, then LCD is worthy.


CPU: Intel i7 3930k w/OC & EK Supremacy EVO Block | Motherboard: Asus P9x79 Pro  | RAM: G.Skill 4x4 1866 CL9 | PSU: Seasonic Platinum 1000w | VDU: Panasonic 42" Plasma |

GPU: Gigabyte 1080ti Gaming OC w/OC & Barrow Block | SoundCard: Asus Xonar D2X - FiiO X3K DAP/DAC for Headphones | Case: Phantek Enthoo Primo White |

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD + Samsung 850 Evo 256GB SSD | Cooling: XSPC D5 Photon 270 Res & Pump | 2x XSPC AX240 White Rads (Push) | NexXxos Monsta 80x240 Rad (Push/Pull) |

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On 4/7/2018 at 2:01 PM, SolarNova said:

The difference being that the draw backs of Plasma, CRT, and OLED, are not with the picture quality. Where as the drawbacks with LCD all affect picture quality.

And since a TV or Monitors main purpose is to produce a picture, the idea that the most prevailent technology being used todays is using the 1 tech out of the 4 which has the worst image, is irritating to say the least.

OLED 'burn in' is no worse than Plasma towards the end. Check out ritings onging OLED burn in tests. Honestly people need to stop with the whole OLED burn in thing, its not as big an issue as it was with 1st Gen OLED's.

If people keep on spreading misinformation on OLED burn in , its not going to help the VDU industry move away from the POS technology that is LCD. Even Linus is guilty of this when he stated that an OLED TV isnt ideal due to burn in, which is incorrect, OLED are fine for PC use and gaming, so long as you treat it correctly, like everyone had to when all we had was CRT's.

I use a Plasma as we speak, its only ever been used for my PC, its old, its on its way out, but even after years and years of use with my PC, i have no screen burn.

 

 

What resolution are you playing at? Mine only lets me play at 1024 * 768 or lower...:(

82d9cefec637a545d6075041a87729c7.png

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16 hours ago, Zade_x said:

What resolution are you playing at? Mine only lets me play at 1024 * 768 or lower...:(

 

 

1st'll , i use W7 (i think W10 is a pos), so i cant comment on how well W10 works with picking up older displays.

 

My Plasma has a native res of 1920 x 1080 60hz, so thats what i usualy run at.

 

However i also like to run 21:9 4xDSR. To do this i create a custom resolution of 1920 x 820 using ether CRU or a direct regerstry edit. Then Nvidia will pick up said resolution and allow you to use 4x DSR on it to run 3840 x 1640 DSR. I use this res for Diablo 3 for example. (note: you have to disable automatic scaling so it doesnt stretch the 21:9 image to 16:9)

 


CPU: Intel i7 3930k w/OC & EK Supremacy EVO Block | Motherboard: Asus P9x79 Pro  | RAM: G.Skill 4x4 1866 CL9 | PSU: Seasonic Platinum 1000w | VDU: Panasonic 42" Plasma |

GPU: Gigabyte 1080ti Gaming OC w/OC & Barrow Block | SoundCard: Asus Xonar D2X - FiiO X3K DAP/DAC for Headphones | Case: Phantek Enthoo Primo White |

Storage: Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD + Samsung 850 Evo 256GB SSD | Cooling: XSPC D5 Photon 270 Res & Pump | 2x XSPC AX240 White Rads (Push) | NexXxos Monsta 80x240 Rad (Push/Pull) |

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There are very few real issues with modern, decent VA panels and gaming. Avoid scammers like Massdrop, who often sell shoddy products at inflated prices, and over priced mainstream monitors if at all possible. I've picked up overclockable VA/IPS panels, with little to no backbleed or IPS glow, zero ghosting, that run at 120Hz for $200 on a regular basis. At least until Linus revealed the monitors to the world in a video, after which the price went up by about a hundred dollars. However, you can pick up great 27" 144Hz, perfect pixel, IPS/VA panels that have no problems with gaming. I haven't come across anyone who would go back to a TN panel after using a 27" or larger IPS/VA panel for gaming or anything else come to that.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 4/15/2018 at 11:43 AM, johnukguy said:

There are very few real issues with modern, decent VA panels and gaming. Avoid scammers like Massdrop, who often sell shoddy products at inflated prices, and over priced mainstream monitors if at all possible. I've picked up overclockable VA/IPS panels, with little to no backbleed or IPS glow, zero ghosting, that run at 120Hz for $200 on a regular basis. At least until Linus revealed the monitors to the world in a video, after which the price went up by about a hundred dollars. However, you can pick up great 27" 144Hz, perfect pixel, IPS/VA panels that have no problems with gaming. I haven't come across anyone who would go back to a TN panel after using a 27" or larger IPS/VA panel for gaming or anything else come to that.

Ermm, I don't know what you're talking about, MassDrop is great, I just didn't like the panel.

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