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To Linus, Higher Hz monitor - Trickory or Truth?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

To LTT and others!

 

I have a question to ask and as far as im concerned no one that i have met can give me a definite answer, "Does an actual monitor that claims to have higher then 60Hz, is truly giving the advertised +60Hz?" So what i mean exactly is, is a 144Hz monitor, truly giving me 144Hz of power, if it does then how?

 

How did this all come about, i have a cousin thats a fully licensed electrician and i had asked him how can a monitor get higher Hz if a household only supplies a maximum of 60Hz to every outlet in my home. His response was, its just a sales technique deployed by the companies to sell their products, as you cant get higher then 60Hz, which is what an Australian household supplies. Any Hz higher then the 60Hz, would just melt the wires in homes.

 

So this left my a little stumped, then how can companies get 100Hz, 120Hz, 140Hz, etc.. monitors when the power outlet can only supply a maximum of 60Hz?

 

The only 2 conclusions i can come up with was these 2 type of possibilities;

 

1. That the monitors arent actually getting the higher Hz, and its only somehow "upscaling" the monitors sort of similar how the consoles do it with their HD and TRUE HD, even tho companies claims that their products are High Definition, but in reality as we all know its not natively TRUE HD, just upscaled through trickory.

OR

2. They amplify the Hz similar to an amplifier does with sound, so the 60Hz will get boosted to what ever, lets say 144Hz. But then, when i think or look at how big an amplifier is, i can't see how the manufacture's could fit something like that inside the guts of the flat screen monitor.

 

Now, i live in Australia so i dont know what exactly the maximum Hz are supplied to everyone's household in other countries, but i would like to ask the LTT guys can you make a video and explain how does a monitor obtain higher Hz?

Cause im really curious if its true to what my cousin was saying that its just a sales technique to sell their products through trickory, or they are some how amplifiing that 60Hz to higher Hz in monitors. And all the research that i cant find from google states that when running anything higher then 60Hz in a home's would just creates electrical fires.

Now im no electrician and i wouldnt have the reach that LTT does with manufactures to ask these questions, so this is why i am posting this there on the hopes that Linus or Luke could make a video explaining on "HOW" or "IF" monitors are actually physically getting to those higher +60Hz or is it just hoax.

 

Thanks to all that took the time to read this and i hope i can get my answer from the LTT group!

 

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It used to be that TVs were affected by the frequency that you're referring to, but that's no longer in effect.

 

It's like suggesting a CPU cannot operate at 4GHz because the wall power operates at 60Hz. The two are not tied together. 


"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Godlygamer23 said:

It used to be that TVs were affected by the frequency that you're referring to, but that's no longer in affect.

 

It's like suggesting a CPU cannot operate at 4GHz because the wall power operates at 60Hz. The two are not tied together. 

 

Thanks for quick response, but still doesnt answer my question though. But you did bring up another thing that i didnt think of about the CPU's.

 

But that what im trying to understand, house gets 60Hz - Monitor gets 120Hz, where/how does that extra 60Hz come to be? Is it getting boosted or is it getting manipulated?

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Computers, though powered by AC, convert that power into DC before passing it to any of the components, so the frequency of the incoming power, is 100% irrelevant, as everything is running on DC.

 

So, your answer is Yes. Monitors DO display the frequency they advertise (or something very close to it).

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1 minute ago, Combat_Killer said:

 

Thanks for quick response, but still doesnt answer my question though. But you did bring up another thing that i didnt think of about the CPU's.

 

But that what im trying to understand, house gets 60Hz - Monitor gets 120Hz, where/how does that extra 60Hz come to be? Is it getting boosted or is it getting manipulated?

You're still thinking that they are related some how... they are not.

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Just now, Combat_Killer said:

 

where/how does that extra 60Hz come to be? Is it getting boosted or is it getting manipulated?

I don't think you understand what a Hz is

 

Hertz is basically "Cycles per second"

 

So, when it comes to power, it means the current alternates 60 times per second.

 

For monitors, it means the monitor refreshes the screen rate 60 times per second.

 

The two, are entirely 100% unrelated, despite using the same measure unit.

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1 minute ago, Combat_Killer said:

 

Thanks for quick response, but still doesnt answer my question though. But you did bring up another thing that i didnt think of about the CPU's.

 

But that what im trying to understand, house gets 60Hz - Monitor gets 120Hz, where/how does that extra 60Hz come to be? Is it getting boosted or is it getting manipulated?

The power gets converted. You must understand that the system is not getting the power directly from the wall. It runs through the power supply first. Anything that runs on DC, but gets AC power goes through this process. Plus, the components on your graphics card and motherboard are going to convert the electricity even more by stepping down the voltage and stepping up the amperage. 


"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan.

"If you place a piece of bread somewhere on Earth, and another one on that point's antipodes, well you made yourself an Earth-sandwich." - Michael from Vsauce.

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6 minutes ago, Combat_Killer said:

 

Thanks for quick response, but still doesnt answer my question though. But you did bring up another thing that i didnt think of about the CPU's.

 

But that what im trying to understand, house gets 60Hz - Monitor gets 120Hz, where/how does that extra 60Hz come to be? Is it getting boosted or is it getting manipulated?

Monitor refresh rate is not reliant on the frequency out of the outlet. The two are not related AT ALL. Monitor refresh rate is how many times it changes the pixels.


.

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12 minutes ago, Combat_Killer said:

 

Thanks for quick response, but still doesnt answer my question though. But you did bring up another thing that i didnt think of about the CPU's.

 

But that what im trying to understand, house gets 60Hz - Monitor gets 120Hz, where/how does that extra 60Hz come to be? Is it getting boosted or is it getting manipulated?

Like other people have said, the frequency of the wall power is unrelated to almost anything in your house that operates off of a DC current (computers, monitors, etc). The power supply in the monitor outputs its own frequency, which then is used to power the panel and the display controller (responsible for setting the resolution and stuff). That power is also completely seperate from the refresh rate, which, if I recall correctly, is set by the display controller.  Besides - you can't "amplify" frequency like you could amps- you can only use a transformer to change it. I'm not an electrician either so some slight details might be wrong. The point should still be clear though: many electrical connections operate on different frequencies (hz of course) in an electrical system. Additionally, "hz" is a general term that can be used to measure the timing or frequency of any object, regardless of whether it is an electrical phenomenon. In this case, monitor refresh rate is indeed a feature measured in hz, but does not have to do with the frequency of an electrical current in the monitor. Just how often the pixels update.


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Posted · Original PosterOP

Lol, too many posts to answer singularly.

 

I understand what you guys are saying, that AC comes from wall, goes through power supply (converts AC to DC) which in turn creates the higher Hz.
But what what im trying to understand is HOW?

 

Like for example i know that if want to connect a 60w 50 amp bulb on a 500 amp circuit and you will need to put a resistor onto the circuit so you dont melt the wires. So what is it that they are using to boost up the Hz?

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Refresh frequency has nothing to do with the AC power supplied by the wall.

 

The first thing that happens to the 60 Hz AC power supplied by the wall is that it is converted to DC by the monitor's power supply. The power that actually runs the monitor's electronic components is DC, it doesn't have any frequency at all.

 

The refresh frequency is just a function of the frequency at which the monitor's control chip generates digital signals. This frequency can be any arbitrary value, and it is quite simple to create an oscillating timer at any frequency you want using simple digital logic circuits and a few capacitors and resistors.

 

Here is a video of my monitor operating at 144 Hz in slow motion, so it can be verified beyond any doubt that it is operating at 144 Hz. (Read the description if you're not sure how to interpret the footage).

 

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6 minutes ago, Combat_Killer said:

Like for example i know that if want to connect a 60w 50 amp bulb on a 500 amp circuit and you will need to put a resistor onto the circuit so you dont melt the wires. So what is it that they are using to boost up the Hz?

It doesn't work that way either. Amps are pulled not pushed. 

 

Look at ohms law. V = I * R

 

The only way to increase Amps is to lower restance or increase voltage. Changing the max current on the supply won't affect this at alo.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 minutes ago, Glenwing said:

SNIP

 

 

No, im not denying that monitors cant get higher Hz, i have a 60Hz montior and i saw my friends monitor at 144Hz and i noticed a mass difference and how responsive it was.

So i was thinking of getting a higher Hz monitor, but i just wasnt sure if my GTX 960 4gb GPU would benefit from a 120Hz or 144Hz monitor. 
So this is was why i asked the question to my cuz, and when he said what he said it just got me thinking about how is those monitors obtaining those extra Hz.

But after reading everyones post replies im starting to think its what i kind of thought in my No. 2 answer, that its amplifying the power to obtain those higher Hz.

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The thing you're looking for is a 555 timer (or something similar)

 

A 555 timer (http://www.instructables.com/id/555-Timer/) takes in a DC signal and oscillates at a frequency determined by a capacitor and resistor attached to specific pins. You can do all sorts of fun things (http://www.555-timer-circuits.com/) if you want.

 

Monitor manufacturers use similar technology. After the power supply converts the AC wall signal into a DC signal, they have a timer circuit that tells the monitor to refresh every 1/10 of a second (or 1/144 of a second if your monitor runs that fast). There's no sense of "amplifying" the frequency of the wall signal - the monitor uses a completely separate signal that it generates itself.

 

Hope that helps clear things up!

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

SNIP

Yeah i know i was just using that example to say that because this happens we use this to make this happen, which is what im trying to find out what it is thats boosting the Hz.

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1 minute ago, Combat_Killer said:

Yeah i know i was just using that example to say that because this happens we use this to make this happen, which is what im trying to find out what it is thats boosting the Hz.

You need to realize the frequency of a input power has nothing to do with monitor refresh rate.

 

Nothing at all.

 

60hz just happens to come from a time when it was the same.

 

Currently monitor refresh rate is controlled by a crystal on the board and then divided to get the needed speed.

 

This is why you can chnage the input frequency or run off dc and they will work the same.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 minutes ago, DethRaid said:

The thing you're looking for is a 555 timer (or something similar)

 

A 555 timer (http://www.instructables.com/id/555-Timer/) takes in a DC signal and oscillates at a frequency determined by a capacitor and resistor attached to specific pins. You can do all sorts of fun things (http://www.555-timer-circuits.com/) if you want.

 

Monitor manufacturers use similar technology. After the power supply converts the AC wall signal into a DC signal, they have a timer circuit that tells the monitor to refresh every 1/10 of a second (or 1/144 of a second if your monitor runs that fast). There's no sense of "amplifying" the frequency of the wall signal - the monitor uses a completely separate signal that it generates itself.

 

Hope that helps clear things up!

 

THANK YOU!!!

This is exactly what i was looking for, if you are right and this is how they are doing it, then another big THANK YOU!!!!  :D

 

This does clear it up for me, cheers DethRaid

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1 minute ago, Combat_Killer said:

 

THANK YOU!!!

This is exactly what i was looking for, if you are right and this is how they are doing it, then another big THANK YOU!!!!  :D

 

This does clear it up for me, cheers Dethraid

They don't use the 555 or similar in real computers or displays due to the inaccuracy. They have a crystal and then use that to set the speed.

 

555 uses a reistor and capactor. These will change a good amount over time and tempature.

 

a cyrstal will vibrate when exposed to voltage and normally has a frequency in the mhz. That is then divided to get frequency they want.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

They don't use the 555 or similar in real computers or displays due to the inaccuracy. They have a crystal and then use that to set the speed.

 

555 uses a reistor and capactor. These will change a good amount over time and tempature.

 

a cyrstal will vibrate when exposed to voltage and normally has a frequency in the mhz. That is then divided to get frequency they want.

 

Oh ok.

Yeah, but it does explain to me now how it works, cause i couldnt wrap my head around the fact of getting X amount of power and making it 2xX amount of power, without using something, i was just curious to what that "SOMETHING" was.

Cause i was a car/truck car mechanic and people think that its the battery that runs their engine when in fact its the "ALTERNATOR" that actually runs the engine not the battery. So i was waiting for someone to say "THIS" is how its doing it, because they are using a 555 chip.
I know the that there not probably using a 555 chip, but its putting it in perspective for me on "HOW" and "WHAT" it is that they are using to do it.

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1 minute ago, Combat_Killer said:

Yeah, but it does explain to me now how it works, cause i couldnt wrap my head around the fact of getting X amount of power and making it 2xX amount of power, without using something, i was just curious to what that "SOMETHING" was.

You're not increasing the power by changing the frequency. 


"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan.

"If you place a piece of bread somewhere on Earth, and another one on that point's antipodes, well you made yourself an Earth-sandwich." - Michael from Vsauce.

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Just now, Combat_Killer said:

 

Oh ok.

Yeah, but it does explain to me now how it works, cause i couldnt wrap my head around the fact of getting X amount of power and making it 2xX amount of power, without using something, i was just curious to what that "SOMETHING" was.

Cause i was a car/truck car mechanic and people think that its the battery that runs their engine when in fact its the "ALTERNATOR" that actually runs the engine not the battery. So i was waiting for someone to say "THIS" is how its doing it, because they are using a 555 chip.
I know the that there not probably using a 555 chip, but its putting it in perspective for me on "HOW" and "WHAT" it is that they are using to do it.

Hertz has nothing to do with power. Its just how fast something changes. 

 

They not changing power at all.

 

Your aren't getting the idea that the hertz of the wall power has NOTHING to do with the refresh rate of the panel.

 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Godlygamer23 said:

You're not increasing the power by changing the frequency. 

Yeah, they are just using from what im understanding a chip to make things move/flash the pixels quicker on the screen.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

Hertz has nothing to do with power. Its just how fast something changes. 

 

They not changing power at all.

 

Your aren't getting the idea that the hertz of the wall power has NOTHING to do with the refresh rate of the panel.

 

 

 

Yeah i see that now, but its kind of confusing tho to someone like me that isnt electrical minded.

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4 minutes ago, Combat_Killer said:

 

Yeah i see that now, but its kind of confusing tho to someone like me that isnt electrical minded.

It's important to understand that while digital logic circuits operate by manipulating electrical signals, they're using voltage states to represent information, not to deliver power. The frequency at which the voltage changes in logic circuits controls the rate at which information is communicated, it's not about increasing the amount of power.

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6 hours ago, Combat_Killer said:

Yeah i know i was just using that example to say that because this happens we use this to make this happen, which is what im trying to find out what it is thats boosting the Hz.

there is no boosting going on anywhere, you are thinking of hz as something that is supplied and has to be changed but this is not the case.

 

As mentioned already hertz is just a unit of measure that says how many times a certain action happens per second, different components can operate at different frequencies (hz) as and there is absolutely no relation between them.

 

in fact you Monitor does not even run on AC, the AC is just what comes from the wall but the PSU converts it to DC inside the monitor.

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