Ping lowers with router reset but why?

[nick name]

I should normally get 55ms (in netgraph) playing cs go, but sometimes it will settle at 75ms or even 85ms. What I do to bring it back to normal is turn off then back on my wifi on the PC or if that fails I reset the router. My question is why does it behave that way? I am suspicious of something else on the network utilizing bandwidth that I am unaware of and would like to track that down if I can. Does anyone have any guidance for me?

[vorticalbox]

6 minutes ago, nick name said:

I should normally get 55ms (in netgraph) playing cs go, but sometimes it will settle at 75ms or even 85ms. What I do to bring it back to normal is turn off then back on my wifi on the PC or if that fails I reset the router. My question is why does it behave that way? I am suspicious of something else on the network utilizing bandwidth that I am unaware of and would like to track that down if I can. Does anyone have any guidance for me?

Really worried about 20ms? First world problems.

 

Your router does stuff like routing traffic, scanning for new devices, checking when ip needs renewed. Doing things == other thing take longer.

 

You won't even notice the difference between 50 and 80ms

[DieselWeasel]

You can access your router settings by either plugging your computer directly to the router (I think it's usually the #2 port - disconnect everything else and type the IP address of the router into your browser -  you'll have to check online or in the routers manual for more) or just type in the IP address of the router into your browser. You'll have to enter the username and password. If it hasn't been changed before you can find it on a sticker on the back of the router. I think that all router software allows you to check what is connected to it and how much bandwidth that client is using.

Edited February 16, 2018 by DieselWeasel

[kirashi]

45 minutes ago, nick name said:

I should normally get 55ms (in netgraph) playing cs go, but sometimes it will settle at 75ms or even 85ms. What I do to bring it back to normal is turn off then back on my wifi on the PC or if that fails I reset the router. My question is why does it behave that way? I am suspicious of something else on the network utilizing bandwidth that I am unaware of and would like to track that down if I can. Does anyone have any guidance for me?

Please provide the model number of both your modem and router so we can best help you out. Resetting networking equipment allows its' internal NVRAM to clear out, which can help with performance should it be a poorly designed modem or router that gets bogged down as the NVRAM is read/written to over time while powered on. Some modems and routers are poor quality, and actually operate worse than plugging in Ethernet cables to a potato, so knowing the model numbers can help us determine if you should replace your existing hardware first.

[nick name]

23 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Please provide the model number of both your modem and router so we can best help you out. Resetting networking equipment allows its' internal NVRAM to clear out, which can help with performance should it be a poorly designed modem or router that gets bogged down as the NVRAM is read/written to over time while powered on. Some modems and routers are poor quality, and actually operate worse than plugging in Ethernet cables to a potato, so knowing the model numbers can help us determine if you should replace your existing hardware first.

The router is an Archer C50 v2 I will have to get back to you on the modem. It's a uverse device, but I don't reset it during this process. 

1 hour ago, vorticalbox said:

Really worried about 20ms? First world problems.

 

Your router does stuff like routing traffic, scanning for new devices, checking when ip needs renewed. Doing things == other thing take longer.

 

You won't even notice the difference between 50 and 80ms

You just like to hear yourself speak don't ya. If you don't think a 60% difference plays any role in cs go then you don't play the game. 

[nick name]

37 minutes ago, DieselWeasel said:

You can access your router settings by either plugging your computer directly to the router (I think it's usually the #2 port - disconnect everything else and type the IP address of the router into your browser -  you'll have to check online or in the routers manual for more) or just type in the IP address of the router into your browser. You'll have to enter the username and password. If it hasn't been changed before you can find it on a sticker on the back of the router. I think that all router software allows you to check what is connected to it and how much bandwidth that client is using.

I connect to the router wirelessly and I can see the devices connected but can't get any idea of which are actively using bandwidth. There are a bunch of devices in my household but during the events I am speaking of the connected devices are assumed to be idle.

[kirashi]

13 minutes ago, nick name said:

The router is an Archer C50 v2 I will have to get back to you on the modem. It's a uverse device, but I don't reset it during this process. 

You just like to hear yourself speak don't ya. If you don't think a 60% difference plays any role in cs go then you don't play the game. 

Ah, there be the problem. The Archer C50 is decent for what it is, however, it's a $50 CAD (so even less in USD) router capable of handling a couple devices in an apartment sized residence OK. I highly recommend upgrading to the TP-Link Archer C7 as this unit is much better for around double the price, and can actually handle running third party firmware properly, such as DD-WRT or OpenWRT which can provide more stability overall.

 

https://www.dd-wrt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1098682#1098682

According to the above forums, a user has mailed in their C50 v2 hardware to Brainslayer (one of the DD-WRT developers/admins) to see about getting custom firmware for it. Brainslayer has confirmed that the C7 firmware appears to be adaptable for the C50, but no updates have been made since then, so I wouldn't hold my breath. This custom firmware isn't required for a router to be good, however, it fixes a lot of problems relating to performance and stability over time.

[DieselWeasel]

13 minutes ago, nick name said:

I connect to the router wirelessly and I can see the devices connected but can't get any idea of which are actively using bandwidth. There are a bunch of devices in my household but during the events I am speaking of the connected devices are assumed to be idle.

I'm guessing it just takes some time for all the devices to connect back after the reset. That's why you have more free bandwidth at the start and once all devices connect that bandwidth gets filled up. When I connect to our router I can see bandwith distibution like this : 

 

Even if you are connected wirelessly to the router you can access it by entering it's IP address into the browser.

[nick name]

51 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Ah, there be the problem. The Archer C50 is decent for what it is, however, it's a $50 CAD (so even less in USD) router capable of handling a couple devices in an apartment sized residence OK. I highly recommend upgrading to the TP-Link Archer C7 as this unit is much better for around double the price, and can actually handle running third party firmware properly, such as DD-WRT or OpenWRT which can provide more stability overall.

 

https://www.dd-wrt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1098682#1098682

According to the above forums, a user has mailed in their C50 v2 hardware to Brainslayer (one of the DD-WRT developers/admins) to see about getting custom firmware for it. Brainslayer has confirmed that the C7 firmware appears to be adaptable for the C50, but no updates have been made since then, so I wouldn't hold my breath. This custom firmware isn't required for a router to be good, however, it fixes a lot of problems relating to performance and stability over time.

Yeah, this router was purchased on sale after doing a little research on it. Hindsight I do wish I spent a little more, but since it is almost two years old I might be able justify buying another one. Thank you for the link.

50 minutes ago, DieselWeasel said:

I'm guessing it just takes some time for all the devices to connect back after the reset. That's why you have more free bandwidth at the start and once all devices connect that bandwidth gets filled up. When I connect to our router I can see bandwith distibution like this : 

 

Even if you are connected wirelessly to the router you can access it by entering it's IP address into the browser.

 

 

That is how I connect via browser. And I wish I could see something close to what you have on your router. Which router do you use?

[DieselWeasel]

18 minutes ago, nick name said:

Yeah, this router was purchased on sale after doing a little research on it. Hindsight I do wish I spent a little more, but since it is almost two years old I might be able justify buying another one. Thank you for the link.

 

 

That is how I connect via browser. And I wish I could see something close to what you have on your router. Which router do you use?

The screenshot is from the TP-Link TL-WDR3600 v1 but it has Gargoyle firmware on it. And we also have a Mikrotik, but I don't know the model or what firmware is on it. What firmware is on your router ? Maybe I can help you search for some answers online.

[EC12]

Just throwing this out there, if you have an old PC (can be really old) and a couple NIC's make the consumer router a simple wireless AP and spin up a pfSense box as your router, it will give you complete control of traffic flow and excellent firewall / ad blocking options etc; Once you try pfSense you will not look back. Take a look here. https://www.pfsense.org/

[vorticalbox]

17 hours ago, nick name said:

You just like to hear yourself speak don't ya. If you don't think a 60% difference plays any role in cs go then you don't play the game. 

Firstly most people play online with much higher pings. Anything under 150 is perfectly fine for anything but hard core competitive games.

 

Second the op said nothing about gaming and commented only on ping speeds.

 

Thirdly if people didn't like they spoke the world would be silent.

 

Pings are also very variable depending on so many things and what is ok for links highly depends on what the activity is.

 

Without any context 50, 80 or even 300ms are all fine for pings.

[nick name]

3 hours ago, vorticalbox said:

Firstly most people play online with much higher pings. Anything under 150 is perfectly fine for anything but hard core competitive games.

 

Second the op said nothing about gaming and commented only on ping speeds.

 

Thirdly if people didn't like they spoke the world would be silent.

 

Pings are also very variable depending on so many things and what is ok for links highly depends on what the activity is.

 

Without any context 50, 80 or even 300ms are all fine for pings.

Actually I mentioned playing cs go. That is a game. An FPS. A competitive FPS. 

 

And what annoyed me with your post was that it provided nothing in the form of guidance. It made blanket statements and basically told me to just shut up and color. So if you're just building up your post count in the forum please do it elsewhere. 

[nick name]

18 hours ago, DieselWeasel said:

The screenshot is from the TP-Link TL-WDR3600 v1 but it has Gargoyle firmware on it. And we also have a Mikrotik, but I don't know the model or what firmware is on it. What firmware is on your router ? Maybe I can help you search for some answers online.

I have the latest Archer C50 firmware installed. I will keep my fingers crossed for a port of the C7 dd-wrt firmware to the C50.

[nick name]

18 hours ago, EC12 said:

Just throwing this out there, if you have an old PC (can be really old) and a couple NIC's make the consumer router a simple wireless AP and spin up a pfSense box as your router, it will give you complete control of traffic flow and excellent firewall / ad blocking options etc; Once you try pfSense you will not look back. Take a look here. https://www.pfsense.org/

You know I saw Level1Tech did something with an old PC and making it a router, but it isn't a possibility for me. Thanks for the idea though.

[mynameisjuan]

I dont understand the problem here. 20ms extra ping is nothing and on top of that its a wireless connection. A multitude of things cause latency with wifi, amount of devices connected, wireless strength of the weakest device, what traffic is going over it....etc... 

 

Resetting the router is only disconnecting these devices temporarily and once they connect ping will spike back up. There is no fix for this because its just how wireless works. Either deal with the 20 ms of ping or buy a router with multiple antennas. 

[nick name]

5 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

I dont understand the problem here. 20ms extra ping is nothing and on top of that its a wireless connection. A multitude of things cause latency with wifi, amount of devices connected, wireless strength of the weakest device, what traffic is going over it....etc... 

 

Resetting the router is only disconnecting these devices temporarily and once they connect ping will spike back up. There is no fix for this because its just how wireless works. Either deal with the 20 ms of ping or buy a router with multiple antennas. 

A couple of things. First, 20ms to 30ms above what is normal is noticeable in cs go so yeah people need to stop saying that. Second, the ping doesn't go back up after the reset so it isn't simply everything being disconnected because when they connect back again the ping stays lowered. And lastly, multiple antennas has nothing to do with anything I asked so go be a jerk some place else.

 

Some folks earlier were genuinely helpful and one had an actual answer that makes the most sense and that is clearing out the NVRAM in the router with the reset. So people coming in and just saying deal with it are just responding to hear their own thoughts and are in my opinion jerks.

[kirashi]

1 hour ago, nick name said:

--SNIP--  And lastly, multiple antennas has nothing to do with anything I asked so go be a jerk some place else.

Um... sorry, but multiple antenna's on a router that properly implements MU-MIMO definitely do help, as long as your client devices support MU-MIMO too. Basically, the idea is that instead of only a single packet of data being transmitted to/from one device at a time, you can have multiple devices receiving and sending data at once because of MU-MIMO support and multiple antennas. Some routers have 6 or 7 antenna, or more, using 3 for RX, 3 for TX, and the rest (if equipped) for detecting location of devices to focus the signal strength more directly in one direction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-user_MIMO

 

While I certainly understand the difference that ~20ms ping can make in certain games and don't think you should just "deal with it", I also have to play devil's advocate and tell you that wireless is always going to cause varying ping latency, and even the occasional ping spike. I run a medium to high end Netgear R7000 router at home (older by today's standards, but still one of the best ~$150-$200 routers you can buy) and yet I still experience the occasional 600ms ping spike when running a ping test to any site (like google.com, for instance) over wireless, on both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks.

 

If you can, hardwire it in for anything mission critical, like gaming or business use. Otherwise just work with the wireless that you do have to attain the best possible results for speed, latency, reliability, and overall performance.

[nick name]

4 hours ago, kirashi said:

Um... sorry, but multiple antenna's on a router that properly implements MU-MIMO definitely do help, as long as your client devices support MU-MIMO too. Basically, the idea is that instead of only a single packet of data being transmitted to/from one device at a time, you can have multiple devices receiving and sending data at once because of MU-MIMO support and multiple antennas. Some routers have 6 or 7 antenna, or more, using 3 for RX, 3 for TX, and the rest (if equipped) for detecting location of devices to focus the signal strength more directly in one direction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-user_MIMO

 

While I certainly understand the difference that ~20ms ping can make in certain games and don't think you should just "deal with it", I also have to play devil's advocate and tell you that wireless is always going to cause varying ping latency, and even the occasional ping spike. I run a medium to high end Netgear R7000 router at home (older by today's standards, but still one of the best ~$150-$200 routers you can buy) and yet I still experience the occasional 600ms ping spike when running a ping test to any site (like google.com, for instance) over wireless, on both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz networks.

 

If you can, hardwire it in for anything mission critical, like gaming or business use. Otherwise just work with the wireless that you do have to attain the best possible results for speed, latency, reliability, and overall performance.

I appreciate your insight again. I am aware of the uses of the antenna, but not as it pertained to my question about lowered ping after a reset. And I wish I could play hardwired, however, I have to settle and try to make the best of a mediocre situation.

 

And with my location in relation to Valve servers 50ms is the lowest I will ever see so when I connect to the same servers and see darn near double the latency it sucks. Most folks I play against are sub 50ms unless they are from Latin America.

 

But sincerely, thank you again for adding something actually useful and not just telling me to deal with it. 

[mynameisjuan]

On 2/17/2018 at 8:20 PM, nick name said:

A couple of things. First, 20ms to 30ms above what is normal is noticeable in cs go so yeah people need to stop saying that. Second, the ping doesn't go back up after the reset so it isn't simply everything being disconnected because when they connect back again the ping stays lowered. And lastly, multiple antennas has nothing to do with anything I asked so go be a jerk some place else.

 

Some folks earlier were genuinely helpful and one had an actual answer that makes the most sense and that is clearing out the NVRAM in the router with the reset. So people coming in and just saying deal with it are just responding to hear their own thoughts and are in my opinion jerks.

How about instead of calling me a jerk you research on how wireless works and what its affected by? This has nothing to do with the resetting of the NVRAM, its about the devices disconnecting and taking time to reconnect. Not every device reconnects right off. Most common thing I see is a smart TV half across the house that has shit signal and when its turned on hours after a reset, speeds shit the bed. 

 

As kirashi already explained, multiple antennas do help not only for MIMO but just how signals are received in the first place. Also thanks for taking the "deal with it out" out of context. I said deal with it OR get a router with multiple antennas. Did you just refuse to read anything past the deal with it? Or do you just not understand what I meant? 

 

So yes, you deal with a problem thats not going to be fixed magically by some software changes or you buy a router with multiple antennas. 

[nick name]

3 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

How about instead of calling me a jerk you research on how wireless works and what its affected by? This has nothing to do with the resetting of the NVRAM, its about the devices disconnecting and taking time to reconnect. Not every device reconnects right off. Most common thing I see is a smart TV half across the house that has shit signal and when its turned on hours after a reset, speeds shit the bed. 

 

As kirashi already explained, multiple antennas do help not only for MIMO but just how signals are received in the first place. Also thanks for taking the "deal with it out" out of context. I said deal with it OR get a router with multiple antennas. Did you just refuse to read anything past the deal with it? Or do you just not understand what I meant? 

 

So yes, you deal with a problem thats not going to be fixed magically by some software changes or you buy a router with multiple antennas. 

 

 

Everything in your first response was condescending. If it is beneath you to help me with my question then don't. 

[mynameisjuan]

2 minutes ago, nick name said:

 

 

Everything in your first response was condescending. If it is beneath you to help me with my question then don't. 

It wasnt meant to be condescending. I was trying to help by giving you options. But as your response about multiple antenna when someone literally quoted your a source, you obviously have no intentions of taking what we say. 

[kirashi]

8 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

This has nothing to do with the resetting of the NVRAM, its about the devices disconnecting and taking time to reconnect.

I'm not getting in between you two, however, I will say that it indeed can have to do with resetting NVRAM. If you have a router that bogs down the longer it runs for because the /tmp directory happens to be mapped to an area of NVRAM or FLASH NAND that isn't large enough to hold all the diagnostic information it collects while the router is on, then rebooting the router can certainly help resolve the issue temporarily, at least until the NVRAM or FLASH NAND fills up again.

This is one reason that certain ISP provided modem/router combo units can be really shitty - if they're using the bare minimum hardware in a particular model, it's never going to be a good experience connecting more than a couple devices to it because the CPU and hardware coupled with poorly implemented memory management will cause the same kind of lockups or slowdowns until a reboot is applied directly to the forehead modem/router combo unit.

[mynameisjuan]

14 hours ago, kirashi said:

hen rebooting the router can certainly help resolve the issue temporarily,

Not talking about rebooting, talking about actually resetting. 

[kirashi]

7 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Not talking about rebooting, talking about actually resetting. 

Semantics and the English language are tricky. Rebooting the router clears out the /tmp directory and NVRAM cache values, which a full factory reset would also do. The difference is that if OP's problem is solved by simply power cycling (rebooting) the router, then it's a temporary file / cache problem. If a factory reset is required, then it's corrupted or misconfigured settings... (or poorly implemented stock firmware, which basically all routers and modems have.)