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Nvidia next chip now called Turing? [UPDATE]

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They say it's for cryptomining.

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The Turing code name stems from Alan Turing, an English computer scientist, theoretical biologist, mathematician, and cryptanalyst. The use of his name for a class of add-in GPU cards dedicated to cryptocurrency mining makes sense given his work on cryptography. He helped crack coded messages sent by the Nazis, contributing to the Allies winning World War II. 

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/nvidia-turing-ampere-graphics-cards-gtc-2018/

 


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Posted · Original PosterOP
43 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Jesus i hope so. that would be awesome if they would just gie those people what they want and they can finally leave the gamers market alone. winwin


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59 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

That would be great. As much as I want new gaming cards, what's the point of them releasing new cards if all the miners just buy them all instantly and when we can actually buy them it's way beyond over priced.

So releasing cards just for miners and hopefully they perform better at mining and price accordingly than the gaming ones, so miners will actually buy them, will be great.

Then they can release the new series meant for gaming at reasonable prices.

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I'm not entirely sure if a mining card would work. I see multiple reasons why not.

  1. It can't be resold 
  2. It takes up fab capacity
  3. If it's supposed to substitute a GPU it'd require VRAM (I assume)

So you'd be reducing incentive and you'd reduce the available stock of regular GPUs anyway.

VRAM is the most significant factor for graphics card shortage right now.

Both Nvidia and AMD are increasing production of chips (essentially placing bigger orders at fabs) but AMD has stated that their biggest problem is memory chips (which they have no control of). Of course AMD did not state whether they only meant HBM or if GDDR5 was as big a problem. Maybe a little of both: HBM suffers the most from scarcity but GDDRx memory still has demand exceeding supply.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, Trixanity said:

I'm not entirely sure if a mining card would work. I see multiple reasons why not.

  1. It can't be resold 
  2. It takes up fab capacity
  3. If it's supposed to substitute a GPU it'd require VRAM (I assume)

1. ehhmm.. you gonna buy 1070 after it got buttf*cked mining 24/7 for the last year? they are pretty much not resellable anyway

2. well it depends on how much sales percentage is going to miners. if its a high enough percentage they might consider

3. so? intel has igpu or pack them with 1gig ram 


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16 minutes ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

Turing - AI and Deep Learning Focused Chip
Ampere - Gaming

Volta- Workstations

 

That's most likely what's going on tbh. It'd make sense as they'd be able to increase sales to specific demographics instead of compromising one area of a card to keep it balanced for another task.

so....

Turing -- Tesla cards?
Ampere -- GeForce cards for Gaming/Mining?
Volta -- Quadros?

 

Whatever it ends up being... sorry guys but I'm going to mine the crap out of whatever they make that is good at mining :P


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22 minutes ago, cluelessgenius said:

1. ehhmm.. you gonna buy 1070 after it got buttf*cked mining 24/7 for the last year? they are pretty much not resellable anyway

2. well it depends on how much sales percentage is going to miners. if its a high enough percentage they might consider

3. so? intel has igpu or pack them with 1gig ram 

How would you know the used card you bought has been mined on? They'd be stupid to disclose that.

 

It doesn't really matter how big. The shortage exists now. It won't be solved by creating a new chip if it's taking up precious fab space. I'm unaware of the current capacity but I recall problems with large orders earlier.

 

If people can't mine properly on Raven Ridge, I don't see how they would on Intel chips. Reducing the amount of chips used on mining cards only get you so far. You're still using chips. I don't know how capacity affects mining. I only know bandwidth is a thing. But it seems reasonable to believe a certain amount of capacity is necessary or they could rely on cache alone.

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4 hours ago, Trixanity said:

I'm not entirely sure if a mining card would work. I see multiple reasons why not.

  1. It can't be resold 
  2. It takes up fab capacity
  3. If it's supposed to substitute a GPU it'd require VRAM (I assume)

So you'd be reducing incentive and you'd reduce the available stock of regular GPUs anyway.

VRAM is the most significant factor for graphics card shortage right now.

Both Nvidia and AMD are increasing production of chips (essentially placing bigger orders at fabs) but AMD has stated that their biggest problem is memory chips (which they have no control of). Of course AMD did not state whether they only meant HBM or if GDDR5 was as big a problem. Maybe a little of both: HBM suffers the most from scarcity but GDDRx memory still has demand exceeding supply.

Neither AMD or Nvidia care if the people who buy the cards can resell them later on. Actually it would be better for them since the consumer will have to buy brand new from them. So making cards that can't be sold is a plus for them. Any company on this planet wants the consumer to buy new, never used.

 

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Fuck, I dont care what they call it at this point, just drop it on us already!


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2 hours ago, cluelessgenius said:

1. ehhmm.. you gonna buy 1070 after it got buttf*cked mining 24/7 for the last year? they are pretty much not resellable anyway

2. well it depends on how much sales percentage is going to miners. if its a high enough percentage they might consider

3. so? intel has igpu or pack them with 1gig ram 

most profitable mining algos right now aren't even that intensive, plus there is a lot less thermal stress coming from heating and cooling cycles, those cards usally also run with lower voltages and clocks, so it really isnt much of a problem as those heat cycles are responsible for the death of many cards, mining cards should have a bigger chance of a blown fan though.

a dedicated mining gpu wont help much at all as most algos need fast vram and lots of it, so at best you save a bit on die size thanks to a bit smaller compute side, but the bigger memory bus would mean that the difference would be small,

resale value would be horrible and most miners would just keep buying gaming gpus as they are more versatile,

Tl;DR it wont help at all 

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2 hours ago, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

Neither AMD or Nvidia care if the people who buy the cards can resell them later on. Actually it would be better for them since the consumer will have to buy brand new from them. So making cards that can't be sold is a plus for them. Any company on this planet wants the consumer to buy new, never used.

 

You're missing the point. I wouldn't argue this initiative wouldn't work if it depended on Nvidia's stance on the used market or ability to sell new cards.

 

The point is miners won't go for it if their profits fall. They want to ditch their cards later (preferably at least). If it's a mining card everyone knows what it's been used for. But let's just assume miners go out and buy these and can't pawn them off because they suck for gaming. You've reduced the volume being moved in the used market adding to the strain on fab capacity because people will be steered towards new. I don't know how many former mining cards are sold used but considering the size of orders being made it seems it's a decent chunk.

 

And this is excluding points 2 and 3 that there are only so many chips being produced with one half of the equation being completely out of the control of AMD and Nvidia.

 

Ultimately a mining card does nothing to solve the problem unless other factors change.

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2 hours ago, Trixanity said:

You're missing the point. I wouldn't argue this initiative wouldn't work if it depended on Nvidia's stance on the used market or ability to sell new cards.

 

The point is miners won't go for it if their profits fall. They want to ditch their cards later (preferably at least). If it's a mining card everyone knows what it's been used for. But let's just assume miners go out and buy these and can't pawn them off because they suck for gaming. You've reduced the volume being moved in the used market adding to the strain on fab capacity because people will be steered towards new. I don't know how many former mining cards are sold used but considering the size of orders being made it seems it's a decent chunk.

 

And this is excluding points 2 and 3 that there are only so many chips being produced with one half of the equation being completely out of the control of AMD and Nvidia.

 

Ultimately a mining card does nothing to solve the problem unless other factors change.

I get what you're saying, but first of all that's their problem since mining is a gambling venture plus they shouldn't have bought gaming cards in the first place and secondly I also come in from the perspective of a consumer. Let's say I was searching the second hand market for a used card, personally I wouldn't buy a mid range or high end from this generation or the even the previous one for AMD, unless the seller was selling it for dirt cheap.

And that's because I know that I'm not buying a card that I intend to use, I'm just wasting money. I'm taking a gamble with a card that I know it's been fucked for months running 24/7 beyond specs at the highest temperature possible. A card that I have no idea if it's going to last me one week or one hour. Maybe I'm really lucky and it will work for a couple of months. So even if the mining cards if Nvidia will indeed make them put a strain on the used market, the miners already did/will do.

 

I'll be looking towards a new card and I say I'm not alone. If Nvidia will release mining cards and of course price them right for their performance so the miners will get them instead of gaming cards, and then Nvidia has different cards for us gamers then it's a win-win situation for them. Since the miners will get their mining cards while us gamers will get our gaming cards. While the used market for this generation becomes a gamble.

The used market always was a gamble since you have no idea what you're buying won't break after a short period of time, but now the risks will be even higher.

I do have to agree with you on this isn't really the solution. But something has to be done. And if this is what Nvidia came up with, it's their mess to sort out if it doesn't work.

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4 hours ago, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

I get what you're saying, but first of all that's their problem since mining is a gambling venture plus they shouldn't have bought gaming cards in the first place and secondly I also come in from the perspective of a consumer. Let's say I was searching the second hand market for a used card, personally I wouldn't buy a mid range or high end from this generation or the even the previous one for AMD, unless the seller was selling it for dirt cheap.

And that's because I know that I'm not buying a card that I intend to use, I'm just wasting money. I'm taking a gamble with a card that I know it's been fucked for months running 24/7 beyond specs at the highest temperature possible. A card that I have no idea if it's going to last me one week or one hour. Maybe I'm really lucky and it will work for a couple of months. So even if the mining cards if Nvidia will indeed make them put a strain on the used market, the miners already did/will do.

 

I'll be looking towards a new card and I say I'm not alone. If Nvidia will release mining cards and of course price them right for their performance so the miners will get them instead of gaming cards, and then Nvidia has different cards for us gamers then it's a win-win situation for them. Since the miners will get their mining cards while us gamers will get our gaming cards. While the used market for this generation becomes a gamble.

The used market always was a gamble since you have no idea what you're buying won't break after a short period of time, but now the risks will be even higher.

I do have to agree with you on this isn't really the solution. But something has to be done. And if this is what Nvidia came up with, it's their mess to sort out if it doesn't work.

Even if we ignore the used market, it's still gonna be unlikely for it to solve the problem. As I said this mining chip will take up fab space at TSMC that they could use to order more gaming cards (and fork their sales as they do now). It will take up the few vram chips to go around. We can even assume that TSMC has capacity enough to also do these in large quantities. That's still a vram issue unsolved. 

 

So they just add a specialized product that requires the same components that are in limited supply. How would that solve anything? And what prevents them from still buying gaming cards? They've already put out a bulletin to reduce cards per customer. It only does so much. The only solution I see is prevent mining in BIOS. But how exactly is that achieved? And how quickly will someone find a workaround?

 

The other solution is to merely satisfy demand but that depends on increasing orders at TSMC and leaning on memory manufacturers to stop artificially limiting supply to keep unit prices up.

 

Many memory manufacturers have promised to increase production but I suspect it's only just enough to run parallel to demand as demand continues to increase. I suspect they want to move more units but keep unit price the same. I suspect they do not want to increase supply enough to meet demand as they've been there before resulting in low prices.

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On 2/15/2018 at 2:47 PM, Notional said:

Sooo it will be castrated and kill itself after a while?

Not before it deciphers criminal encryption and saves democracy ensuring the freedom of those who will persecute and torture it ungratefully and without any modicum of decency.


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On 2/16/2018 at 4:21 AM, NvidiaIntelAMDLoveTriangle said:

I get what you're saying, but first of all that's their problem since mining is a gambling venture plus they shouldn't have bought gaming cards in the first place and secondly I also come in from the perspective of a consumer. Let's say I was searching the second hand market for a used card, personally I wouldn't buy a mid range or high end from this generation or the even the previous one for AMD, unless the seller was selling it for dirt cheap.

And that's because I know that I'm not buying a card that I intend to use, I'm just wasting money. I'm taking a gamble with a card that I know it's been fucked for months running 24/7 beyond specs at the highest temperature possible. A card that I have no idea if it's going to last me one week or one hour. Maybe I'm really lucky and it will work for a couple of months. So even if the mining cards if Nvidia will indeed make them put a strain on the used market, the miners already did/will do.

 

I'll be looking towards a new card and I say I'm not alone. If Nvidia will release mining cards and of course price them right for their performance so the miners will get them instead of gaming cards, and then Nvidia has different cards for us gamers then it's a win-win situation for them. Since the miners will get their mining cards while us gamers will get our gaming cards. While the used market for this generation becomes a gamble.

The used market always was a gamble since you have no idea what you're buying won't break after a short period of time, but now the risks will be even higher.

I do have to agree with you on this isn't really the solution. But something has to be done. And if this is what Nvidia came up with, it's their mess to sort out if it doesn't work.

first miners don't run cards too hot, as a hot card consumes more power and increases the changes of failure, miners are smart they do all they can to make the cards happy, plus most currently profitable coins are actually pretty light on the cards, certainly lighter than gaming, running 24/7 can also have some good effects like the lack of thermal cycling which is one of the big killers of gpus ( it leads to scenarios where baking the card seems to improve things (it only helps temporarily)).

miners will underclock, undervolt there cards to get better power efficiency. the thing that does take the most beating is the fans as they will be running at 50%+ all the time.

 

mining specific cards wont help, as for miners the resale value of the card is an important safety net, plus a mining card would still use loads of vram and silicon, and at the end of the day nothing would have changed.

now gddr6 will help the situation improve as it uses less silicon to make (its on a smaller node) and has more capacity meaning you need less chips for each gpu die, other than that there isn't much that can be done 

 

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On 2/14/2018 at 10:22 AM, jasonvp said:

It's a bit odd that they came up with Volta and then appear to be cycling away from it for the gamers.  That's unlike them, but not really confusing per se.  If it's true (remember: this is all speculation), it just means NVidia doesn't think the Volta platform is worth down-sizing for consumers and gamers.

 

The only increase that Volta gets in gaming performance is linearly connected to the increase in CUDA count in properly optimized DX12 games. DX11 games see significantly less benefit. So unless they've decided to release a significant improvement to the architecture for gamers first, the only benefit over the 10 series would be an increased CUDA count and GDDR6 which might increase any gains seen with DX11.

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