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AMD Q4 Earnings Report & Zen 2 Will Have Spectre Fix

The Benjamins

Say what you want, everyone was laughing at AMD for the Ryzen and Epyc names. Intel sure aint laughing anymore.

5 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

But does it mean new socket just like Intel's 9th gen CPUs?

They already said AM4 was here to stay until at least 2019.

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5 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

Say what you want, everyone was laughing at AMD for the Ryzen and Epyc names. Intel sure aint laughing anymore.

They have time to laugh while they're still busy swimming in the money they made in the last quarter? 9_9

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5 minutes ago, thorhammerz said:

They have time to laugh while they're still busy swimming in the money they made in the last quarter? 9_9

They called their prosumer line of cpus the "threadripper"

how can you just not giggle? 

Sudo make me a sandwich 

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Meanwhile Intel isn't likely to fix it for another couple of years.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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Great, earning that cash and putting to R&D and also awesome for Zen 2 too. 7nm node it self is exciting.

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6 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

With that said, it makes me wonder why would Intel need to ditch the existing LGA 1151 just to fix the Spectre v2 in their 9th gen processors?

Because it allows them to make more money by locking users out of upgrading by instead making them buy a whole new set of parts.

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No comment on AMD cutting down Vega 56 production? AMD said they'd make a comment after their financials were out.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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7 hours ago, TVwazhere said:

AM4 is (as stated by AMD) supposed to last up to 2019, and any AMD mainstream cpu releases will use that socket. Whether they stick to it or not is up to them, but thats what they promised with the release of Ryzen 1.0 in 2017 (I'm calling it Ryzen 1.0, no one else has called it that AFAIK)

I thought they said 2020 not 2019?

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15 hours ago, Hunter259 said:

What? That's not correct at all. Meltdown is also an attack against Out of Order execution where it is theoretically possible due to how operating systems map memory. It has nothing to due with some cheating method Intel found to increase their IPC. Spectre goes about throwing crap into the cache that can then be tied to a victim process' data. Both go about how modern processors use branch prediction and out of order execution to speed up processing time. They are similar but Spectre is far harder to defeat due to how it's tied to the fundamentals of modern processing.

Intel doesn't enforce certain memory access restrictions at the microcode level like AMD does and that is why Meltdown does not apply to AMD CPUs.

 

Quote

Since many operating systems map physical memory, kernel processes, and other running user space processes into the address space of every process, Meltdown effectively makes it possible for a rogue process to read any physical, kernel or other processes' mapped memory—regardless of whether it should be able to do so. Defenses against Meltdown would require avoiding the use of memory mapping in a manner vulnerable to such exploits (i.e. a software-based solution) or avoidance of the underlying race condition (i.e. a modification to the CPUs' microcode and/or execution path).

 

You can however try and exploit it on a AMD CPU as it's exploiting at the OS layer however the microcode on AMD processors enforces all memory privilege restrictions at all times where Intel does not, there is an assumption in the way they handle it that the OS is correctly enforcing these restrictions. 

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4 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I thought they said 2020 not 2019?

They might try and push for a quicker release because of Spectre, the higher revenue can help with this and to race for CPU manufactures to be able to say we fixed it first.

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4 hours ago, TheRandomness said:

Because it allows them to make more money by locking users out of upgrading by instead making them buy a whole new set of parts.

I'm giving Intel the benefit of the doubt but perhaps they're adding something useful which leads them to ditching LGA 1151?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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that moment when not losing money is something to throw a party over at AMD xD 

 

Good job! We need this competition. 

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2 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

I'm giving Intel the benefit of the doubt but perhaps they're adding something useful which leads them to ditching LGA 1151?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

More freedom in moving things around maybe? Design the cpu, then wire the socket to suit vs making a cpu around an already-existing socket.

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14 hours ago, NMS said:

Go Team Red!

Go Team Rocket!!!

Budget? Uses? Currency? Location? Operating System? Peripherals? Monitor? Use PCPartPicker wherever possible. 

Quote whom you're replying to, and set option to follow your topics. Or Else we can't see your reply.

 

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meanwhile still no news about why Vega 56 and 64 that are rumored to have reduced production and focus more on Vega Frontier

 

 

Budget? Uses? Currency? Location? Operating System? Peripherals? Monitor? Use PCPartPicker wherever possible. 

Quote whom you're replying to, and set option to follow your topics. Or Else we can't see your reply.

 

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20 minutes ago, dragoon20005 said:

Go Team AQUA!!!

Image result for team flare emblem

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18 hours ago, NinJake said:

It's nice to see AMD stepping up to the plate and talking about how they are going about to fix spectre. (No word on meltdown yet)

 

But then take a look over at Intel as they kneel in a corner, counting their money and hoping everyone forgets about these issues if they keep their mouth shut.

You can't be serious, right? You don't actually believe this verbal diarrhea that you just posted?

 

Intel posted a fairly detailed explanation of the issue very quickly after it was announced, and ever since then they have been working hard creating patches for the issues.

They have also already announced that their upcoming chips will have implemented hardware level fixes. They announced that last week as you can see in this thread titled "Upcoming Intel CPUs to address Meltdown and Spectre vulnerabilities on sillicon level".

On top of that they have worked with several vendors (software and hardware partners) to make sure the updates work and gets applied.

 

Intel really has done everything in their power to make the best of the situation.

If there is one company that has "kept their mouth shut and counted their money" throughout this incident it's AMD.

 

 

17 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Meltdown is an Intel issue where they found higher IPC but cutting out steps that are attackable. Skylake cores have now functionally gone backwards in IPC from launch and their generational improvements.

I am not sure if I am reading this post correctly, but it sounds like you're saying Skylake now performs worse than Broadwell (assuming patches are applied to both).

If that's what you're saying then I would like a source on that.

 

Also, Meltdown isn't Intel specific.

"It doesn't work on AMD processors" != "It's Intel specific"

It has been confirmed to affect some ARM based processors too.

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yay amd didnt suck this year!

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where's all the people saying 

 

"fuck you AMD, you're just releasing this to capitalize on the spectre issue to sell more new CPUS with the fix, if they made their CPUs right they wouldnt need to do this"

 

oh wait, AMD can do no wrong.

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18 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Annnnd it'll take intel an extra 4 months and call it a feature and sell it to you for double

Is there another company that does that?

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12 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

Say what you want, everyone was laughing at AMD for the Ryzen and Epyc names. Intel sure aint laughing anymore.

They already said AM4 was here to stay until at least 2019.

Next year?  it seems like we were debating the value of AMD's "long platform support" only a few months ago.  xD

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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15 hours ago, Hunter259 said:

What? That's not correct at all. Meltdown is also an attack against Out of Order execution where it is theoretically possible due to how operating systems map memory. It has nothing to due with some cheating method Intel found to increase their IPC. Spectre goes about throwing crap into the cache that can then be tied to a victim process' data. Both go about how modern processors use branch prediction and out of order execution to speed up processing time. They are similar but Spectre is far harder to defeat due to how it's tied to the fundamentals of modern processing.

"GPZ Variant 3 (Rogue Data Cache Load or Meltdown) is not applicable to AMD processors.

  • We believe AMD processors are not susceptible due to our use of privilege level protections within paging architecture and no mitigation is required."

 

https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution

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I guess if AMD cannot supply enough Vega gaming cards to keep up with demand, they cannot prevent stores from inflating the price way beyond MSRP. In this situation personally I don't mind them just selling the Vega Frontier Edition and making the extra margins themselves. Let the miners buy that (which they are), rather than letting the retailers make the extra margins on gaming cards. At least this way AMD makes more money.

 

AMD still screwed up and deserves all the criticism for getting themselves in this situation, but now that we are here I don't mind them handling it like that. Either way we cannot purchase vega gaming cards at worthwhile prices, better to buy Nvidia for high end gaming until prices settle. Let the miners buy Vega Frontier Edition and benefit AMD.

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2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

If there is one company that has "kept their mouth shut and counted their money" throughout this incident it's AMD.

AMD has no money to count *laughs in debt*

 

All kidding aside: the smartest action is to avoid getting too much attention when the spotlight is on the behemoth next door. I would say they have made several public and detailed statements but no need to be needlessly vocal. Don't want people to suddenly look too closely which they kinda already have in two lawsuits. 

 

Intel have been hit the hardest but that's only logical as they're the biggest player in the business and they therefore have the most amount of vulnerable users. Couple that with having all three vulnerabilities, I think it's only natural that people think Intel has an obligation to be the safest choice and hold them accountability whether or not it's fair that they get flak for vulnerabilities others share.

 

I think it's fair to say that all data available points to that the older the CPU the bigger the performance loss so in no logical scenario would Skylake be slower than Broadwell unless the point is to say that patched Skylake is slower than unpatched Broadwell. Which may be true but it's a pointless comparison. You don't want an unpatched product so the only thing you can lament is the loss in performance which goes for any Intel user and increasingly so the older your product is.

 

What I do find ridiculous is the notion of doom and gloom in Intel land. There is no chance of this making any significant dent in Intel. Maybe short term it'll give some space to work with for competitors which they'd have to seize quickly to make anything of. Other than that it's business as usual. I think there are bigger fish to fry if one wants to criticize Intel for wrongdoings or failures than this. Especially if you consider that every modern high performance processor is vulnerable to Spectre. That makes it suck to be on Android for example as you're unlikely to get a patch. However I think some might be lucky that most non-flagships use A53 cores (non-flagships being less likely to be updated) which I would assume given their design would actually be safe from the start.

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