We consumers need to ready our pitchforks and torches and protest outside the retailer stores for the CRAZY IMMORAL price gauging of GPUs !! :P

[papajo]

Ok so I read a topic (in an other forum) about a guy hoping that he could find a GTX 1050 ti 4GB @ 150 euro... 

I was like "he must be confused or something"  but upon looking on the interwebs for this cheap entry level bicycle of a card I found out that he was right... retailers have gone mad AF... the card costs as if it was able to play the most demanding games on ultra settings at 1080p @over 60 FPS!!! 

There was a time not long ago when people saw this excuse of a pcb https://geizhals.de/zotac-geforce-gtx-1050-ti-low-profile-zt-p10510e-10l-a1589782.html?hloc=at&hloc=de followed by price tag of 70 euro not 170. Thats essentially an avit office card... 

The sole fact that it can be made in such a small PCB proves that it is over simplistic and not worth it for a gamers prospective......

Where is our society going to? 

Yes I know miners supply and demand blahblahblah but it seems to me that manufacturers just like the situation as it is and overexploit it, demand can be met by supply and I think they can increase their supply.

Also the designing companies like AMD and Nvidia dont give a rats @@@ either..  Gamers made them what they are today if gamers wouldnt support them they would not be on map! And instead of recognizing they just mock us by ignoring this travesty. 

Make separate products for miners or increase the supply instead of asking midrange + level money for an entry level card!!! 

 

But most of all I think we as the consumers are at fault too because instead of shaming them for doing so we just accept the situation and overpay for their garbage... 

lol 

[tikker]

From what I've heard the problem with the prices doesn't really lie with Nvidia or AMD (seeing as I can order a 1080 Ti FE at the same price as when I bought my first one). I don't know if they are at maximum production capability already, but I can also imaging that if they are not they'd be cautious about ramping up production as the mining business could theoretically just collapse tomorrow.

[papajo]

33 minutes ago, Pangea2017 said:

DreamHack Leipzig discount was a great chance to get cheap GPU.

Watch gamersnexus and you understand why nobody is doing this: to high operational risk

gamer nexus is just a shill too... or he is ignorant enough not to see that they are just giving him the "kool-aid" and propagates their vague ridiculous excuses 

 

32 minutes ago, tikker said:

From what I've heard the problem with the prices doesn't really lie with Nvidia or AMD (seeing as I can order a 1080 Ti FE at the same price as when I bought my first one). I don't know if they are at maximum production capability already, but I can also imaging that if they are not they'd be cautious about ramping up production as the mining business could theoretically just collapse tomorrow.

This is how graphic cards are made

 

No there is not such a thing as being at risk by increasing production.. they can just add a few workers and problem solved also cards dont take months to manufacture so they can just marginally increase the production to keep the prices low... they make it seem as if they need 6 months to make a batch of extra cards and that the batch needs to be 1.000.000 cards and thus a risky investment... they can day by day increase the production marginally and decrease it marginally depending on the sales metrics... 

 

DONT DRINK THE KOOL AID PEOPLE! 

 

EDIT: Also I dont see the founders edition to be available at any price so either you saw it used "as new" on ebay or confused it for something else. 

 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

lel

[papajo]

This guy gets it! 

 

 

[tikker]

35 minutes ago, papajo said:

This is how graphic cards are made

 

No there is not such a thing as being at risk by increasing production.. they can just add a few workers and problem solved also cards dont take months to manufacture so they can just marginally increase the production to keep the prices low... they make it seem as if they need 6 months to make a batch of extra cards and that the batch needs to be 1.000.000 cards and thus a risky investment... they can day by day increase the production marginally and decrease it marginally depending on the sales metrics... 

 

DONT DRINK THE KOOL AID PEOPLE! 

 

EDIT: Also I dont see the founders edition to be available at any price so either you saw it used "as new" on ebay or confused it for something else. 

 

It was sold out again after 2 days or so, but I could order a new FE from Nvidia itself earlier this week; no confusion.

Also upping production is not as simple as just "add a few workers" and overproducing is most certainly a risk and a waste of resources. You don't adjust your production according to daily statistitcs, it's just too short a time frame to tell you anything. I'm by no means an expert in business or anything, but if it was that simple to respond to demand I think they would have done it.

 

[Edit] This I find a nice explanation from this thread: 

Quote

You see, ....when a GPU designers like AMD/Nvidia wanted their GPU to be make by TSMC/global foundry. A contract is formed, these are usually done several months ahead of the final product. So the fab manufacturing companies will allocate X% of max capacity to make GPUs. These allocation is fixed and cannot be change unless AMD/Nvidia are willing to pay huge penalty to get extra production. It also cannot be ramp up immediately because you need a new order to be sign first b4 production ramping up.(which is subject to fab capacity availability). New prices per GPU will also needed to be discuss too. All these takes time.

 

[papajo]

Just now, tikker said:

It was sold out again after 2 days or so, but I could order a new FE from Nvidia itself earlier this week; no confusion.

 

you are talking about a 700 $ card anyway (which should not cost that much in the first place) and you proved just now that its not available and that they do you the "favor" to sell one now and then... 

5 minutes ago, tikker said:

 

Also upping production is not as simple as just "add a few workers". You don't adjust your production according to daily statistitcs, it's just too short a time frame to tell you anything. I'm by no means an expert in business or anything, but if it was that simple to respond to demand I think they would have done it.

its not.. they are literally sweatshops... see that thing for example that puts prts on the pcb it needs like 15 minutes to make 2 PCBs and there is place for other 2... 

there just lego things together its not like making a ship or something... everything is ready they just need to put it in one place and put that in the box look again at the video 

 

Dont drink the kool-aid pal... watch the video on my other post here in this topic too. we as consumers should unite because these people dont have any ethics or shame they gonna keep selling us 8GB rams for 200$ and graphics cards that can barely play current games at HD at 60 FPS for like 500$ they dont care about the market they care about exploiting our resources!! There is a difference in profiting and exploiting and they do the later.

[papajo]

16 minutes ago, tikker said:

 

[Edit] This I find a nice explanation from this thread: 

 

THIS is litterally the KOOL AID..

The more money they make the more nvidia is going to invest to the next generation?? WHAT NVIDIA??? the one that keeps us with marginal improvements and waiting for a new generation for almost 2 years because it has no competition?? that nvidia?? the nvidia that sold us half of titan for 1000$ or the nvidia that gave us 970 with broken ram to make extra $$$ ? that nvidia is going to turn the extra profits of mining to the gamers benifit???? 

DONT DRINK THE KOOL AID GUYS!!! they gonna sell us the new GTX 2080 (while they already will have the ti version but hide it so that they can sell the 2080 as a flagship for more money)  for 700$ and it will be barely able to play 4k (at last since we wait like 4 years since 4k came to the computer world to finaly be able to play it using only one graphics card ) and then release the ti for even more money... 

You used to be able to play the heaviest games of your generation at the biggest resolution with 400-500 tops.... a mid range card used to be able to play all the games are good settings at the standard resolution of the time and costed less than 250$ Computers used to become significantly faster each year and each year marginally cheaper!!!! 

Now it got the other way around!!! 

[papajo]

15 minutes ago, tikker said:

It was sold out again after 2 days or so, but I could order a new FE from Nvidia itself earlier this week; no confusion.

Also upping production is not as simple as just "add a few workers" and overproducing is most certainly a risk and a waste of resources. You don't adjust your production according to daily statistitcs, it's just too short a time frame to tell you anything. I'm by no means an expert in business or anything, but if it was that simple to respond to demand I think they would have done it.

 

[Edit] This I find a nice explanation from this thread: 

 

THIS is litterally the KOOL AID..

The more money the make the more nvidia is going to invest to the next generation?? WHAT NVIDIA??? the one that keeps us with marginal improvements and waiting for a new generation for almost 2 years because it has no competition?? that nvidia?? the nvidia that sold us half of titan for 1000$ or the nvidia that gave us 970 with broken ram to make extra $$$ ? that nvidia is going to turn the extra profits of mining to the gamers benefit???? 

DONT DRINK THE KOOL AID GUYS!!! they gonna sell us the new GTX 2080 (while they already will have the ti version but hide it so that they can sell the 2080 as a flagship for more money)  for 700$ and it will be barely able to play 4k (at last since we wait like 4 years since 4k came to the computer world to finally be able to play it using only one graphics card ) and then release the ti for even more money... 

You used to be able to play the heaviest games of your generation at the biggest resolution with 400-500 tops.... a mid range card used to be able to play all the games are good settings at the standard resolution of the time and costed less than 250$ Computers used to become significantly faster each year and each year marginally cheaper!!!! 

Now it got the other way around!!! 

[tikker]

3 minutes ago, papajo said:

THIS is litterally the KOOL AID..

The more money the make the more nvidia is going to invest to the next generation?? WHAT NVIDIA??? the one that keeps us with marginal improvements and waiting for a new generation for almost 2 years because it has no competition?? that nvidia?? the nvidia that sold us half of titan for 1000$ or the nvidia that gave us 970 with broken ram to make extra $$$ ? that nvidia is going to turn the extra profits of mining to the gamers benefit???? 

Nvidia is not making extra profit off of this, the board partners are.

 

Quote

DONT DRINK THE KOOL AID GUYS!!! they gonna sell us the new GTX 2080 (while they already will have the ti version but hide it so that they can sell the 2080 as a flagship for more money)  for 700$ and it will be barely able to play 4k (at last since we wait like 4 years since 4k came to the computer world to finally be able to play it using only one graphics card ) and then release the ti for even more money... 

You used to be able to play the heaviest games of your generation at the biggest resolution with 400-500 tops.... a mid range card used to be able to play all the games are good settings at the standard resolution of the time and costed less than 250$

Which I think is a bad thing in a sense. I think it's good that we are coming to a point again where we are bringing even the strongest cards to their knees at maximum quality. That should give an incentive again for new, possibly revolutionary designs to improve performance.

 

Quote

Computers used to become significantly faster each year and each year marginally cheaper!!!! 

Now it got the other way around!!! 

I admit that sometimes it indeed feels like they are releasing just to keep the cycle of release going with only marginal performace increase every year and prices are stupidly high at the moment... I do think RAM production could maybe benefit from an increase, but the cryptomarket is just too volatile to take a risk.

[tikker]

8 minutes ago, Pangea2017 said:

Sure about this? I belive that the profit is kept by the resellers. Board partners have the most time contracts with resellers/distributor with fix prices. At least this was how Lenovo processed the Thinkpads some years ago.

I thought so, because of the contracts. Board partners buy from Nvidia and then resell at profit, from what I understood. I could be wrong though, but this is what I read.

[papajo]

1 hour ago, tikker said:

Nvidia is not making extra profit off of this, the board partners are.

Ok I am sure now that you are just here to protect your team or something... (btw your real team is the consumer team not a brand that doesnt care about you and only wants to get more and more $$$ for less and less product) 

Now you turn the tables by "nvidia doesnt make extra profit" 1 post above you just added a post which main argument was that nvidia makes extra profit from miners and will use that to our (aka consumers/gamers) benefit.... 

stop drinking the kool aid. (yes i gonna say that in every post in this topic ) 

[papajo]

1 hour ago, tikker said:

Which I think is a bad thing in a sense. I think it's good that we are coming to a point again where we are bringing even the strongest cards to their knees at maximum quality. That should give an incentive again for new, possibly revolutionary designs to improve performance.

Dont drink the cool aid we are bringing no strongest cards to their knees.. they are just holding back like intel who was just bringing up the same architecture with 5% performance increase and if that.. and when amd started to compete a little they started virtually the next day giving us 18 core CPUS from half a decade of 4 core lineups...... they are jus holding back and give us the least they can asking the more they can get...  and be absolutely sure that if Vega rumors did not happen the 1080 would not come as fast as it did and would be slower and the 1080 ti would be in the next generation not the current. 

[tikker]

7 minutes ago, papajo said:

Ok I am sure now that you are just here to protect your team or something... (btw your real team is the consumer team not a brand that doesnt care about you and only wants to get more and more $$$ for less and less product) 

Now you turn the tables by "nvidia doesnt make extra profit" 1 post above you just added a post which main argument was that nvidia makes extra profit from miners and will use that to our (aka consumers/gamers) benefit.... 

stop drinking the kool aid. (yes i gonna say that in every post in this topic ) 

I never said Nvidia makes profit from miners and should use that from our benefit? I said that GPUs now not being able to run everything maxed out on the highest resolution is a good thing for pushing development/innovation. Bringing to its knees is maybe exaggerated, but 4k is definitely still a challenge to run with everything maxed out in demanding games.

I agree that, probably due to their sort of monopoly positions, that Intel and Nvidia may lack a little incentive to go all out. That's why I'm happy AMD is getting back into the game with Ryzen etc.

 

[Edit] Also just respond to everything in a single post instead of multiposting.

[papajo]

2 hours ago, tikker said:

 

 

 

[tikker]

16 minutes ago, papajo said:

 

Let me clarify myself. I don't mean more sales doesn't give Nvidia more money (obviously). What I meant is that partners like Asus, EVGA, MSI etc. buy the GPUs from Nvidia. Most likely this is at a fixed, pre-negotiated price per batch, which is recorded in their contract. The board partners then manufacture their cards and sell them at whatever price they want. I'm not sure Nvidia sees other money than what was negotiated beforehand, maybe an X percentage of earnings. I'll double check if my memory serves me well, but this makes sense to me atm.

 

[Edit] These concerns from AIBs make me more confident in that statement:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4040211-nvidia-competing-gpu-video-card-partners-will-help-improve-designs

http://www.pc-specs.com/news/21476/nvidia-denies-geforce-gtx-founders-editions-are-competing-unfairly-with-aib-partners

[Sauron]

2 hours ago, papajo said:

Yes I know miners supply and demand blahblahblah but it seems to me that manufacturers just like the situation as it is and overexploit it, demand can be met by supply and I think they can increase their supply.

Last time they ramped up production for a mining craze they got screwed. People moved to asics in mass and they were left with tons of unsold gpus. So no, they can't just increase their supply.

 

If you really want a gpu upgrade now and can't afford the card you want, buy used. There are tons of last generation cards on ebay for cheap that will run your games no problem.

3 hours ago, papajo said:

But most of all I think we as the consumers are at fault too because instead of shaming them for doing so we just accept the situation and overpay for their garbage... 

Why should we shame them for selling to the highest bidder? Believe it or not, the world doesn't revolve around our wish to run games at ultra settings for cheap. If you don't think they're worth the price, don't buy them - it's that simple. Vote with your wallet. But the idea the manufacturers should be chastised for charging what people are willing to pay is ludicrous. Miners have a right to buy cards en masse and pay what they want for them.

[ExplosiveSloths]

I paid £90 for a 1050ti open box from amazon warehouse.

 

Well it wasn't really open box as it came in a brown box but hey.

[Mick Naughty]

The problem is the customers just as much as it is the retailers. Don’t really see an issue myself though. Pay to play or gtfo. 

[papajo]

17 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

The problem is the customers just as much as it is the retailers. Don’t really see an issue myself though. Pay to play or gtfo. 

The issue is that you overpay to play... a 1$ cheeseburger is fine.. a 10$ cheeseburger is fine.. a 100$ cheeseburger (especially if it is not testier than the other two) starts to become ridiculous. 

And yes the problem are also people like you children that use their daddy's credit card and thing everything is fine because they dont understand the consequence of burning a whole in their daddy's wallet for some stupid extra RGB leds and playing on 30 FPS more than the 300$ cheaper card....

[Mick Naughty]

Well the series is at the end of its line during a ram dac shortage.  People shouldn’t wait so long to “upgrade”. Wouldn’t be a big deal. Said it countless times, you can get the cards at regular price or very dam close to it with looking hard. 

 

But if that’s the food you’re getting, guess it’s pay or die huh? Easy decision for some. 

[papajo]

18 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

Well the series is at the end of its line during a ram dac shortage.  People shouldn’t wait so long to “upgrade”. Wouldn’t be a big deal. Said it countless times, you can get the cards at regular price or very dam close to it with looking hard. 

 

But if that’s the food you’re getting, guess it’s pay or die huh? Easy decision for some. 

No, you can not,(especially outside of the US)

 

And that is not even the point how easily do some people accept drastic changes in reality that screw them over beats me... Its like saying (in case of a world full of toxic waste from factories and such)  we dont have an environmental problem because if you try hard enough and crawl on the surface of the earth where little oxygen has been left then you maybe can bearth if you try hard and save your breaths so no problem! lol 

 

 But no wonder its easy for you to accept that, you are probably a child that has no prior experience of society and markets and just a few months ago got what it wanted thanks to dad's CC and thats all it knows, better thinks it knows, about prices...

 

You just don't have a notion of price I see you just wasted for example about 1200$ if not close to 2k $ for a stupid SLI config that will perform most of the times worse or close to a 700$ GTX 1080 ti (and probably is also a little bottle-necked by the CPU anyways) .. not to mentioned the utterly useless waste of 32GB ram ... therefore your opinion is irrelevant and invalid by default on this particular topic.

And in fact you serve as a perfect specimen of the problem, people like you are part of the fake "enthusiast" market which companies try to exploit and succeed simply because their characteristic is 0 knowledge 100% willingness to drop needlessly money in order to get a satisfaction by believing they join some kind of elite group while in reality all they do is to droll in a multi-color  small child cave filled with cheap stuff (quality/performance per dollar wise) of which each component comes with huge price-tag... 
Like people in the past with small genitalia who used to buy huge "muscle cars"  that did not accelerate well, could hold grip well on turns, did not have good brakes, consumed more fuel per mile than a wale breaths in water per second, had tons of problems but hey they were HUGEEE and made a nice BRUUUM BRUUUUM sound so its 50k$ well spent lol


Computer enthusiast (not a long time ago) used to be about squeezing every drop of performance per buck out of their system people that dealt with the technical details and did not pay attention about the marketing fluff, where a guy that used for example only 400$ assembling and tinkering on old but gold stuff and achieving like smooth 60 FPS on crysis was commented and the guy who paid $1700 to do the same thing maybe with 5-10 FPs more was ignored as a noob... now its an endangered species.... 

 

That's the problem too many children that do not have critical thinking like this one

and end up doing anything for some likes and tweets... even killing them selfs out of stupidity just because something is shiny and people will share your selfie showing you trying it out... 

[KarathKasun]

Cards are still selling for normalish prices in the channel, maybe 30% up but due to memory supply rather than miners.

 

Retailers are now pushing card bundles to limit the appeal to miners.  ~$300 Card + ~$200 monitor for ~500$ and other similar deals.

 

Card manufacturers and clearinghouses are not ramping supply (a 3-6 month process as retail boxes lag manufacturing) because of the risk posed by a coin bubble collapse.  In this situation they have tons of stock competing with super cheap used cards.  Every day a card sits unsold costs a retailer/warehouse money, so they do not want to be in the same situation they were in with R9 290(x) cards after the first coin bubble.

[Mick Naughty]

Seeing ignorance truley is bliss. True representation of the “community” with this one. But if we are gonna make assumptions, I’ll continue to do so. 

[AshleyAshes]

Every time that 'Kool-aid' is used in this thread, take a shot.