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Microsoft is building a new version of Windows 10 that "strips out legacy components"

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Source: Windowscentral

https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-core-polaris

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Windowscentral : 

According to my sources, Microsoft is building a brand new version of Windows 10 for PC devices like desktops, laptops and 2-in-1's. This new version is entirely built on UWP, making it Microsoft's first truly modern Windows OS for the traditional PC form factor. It strips out old legacy components and features in favor of a lighter OS with excellent battery life and performance.

 

Quote

Windowscentral :

It's likely that Polaris will replace Windows 10 S, and sources say that Microsoft is looking into bringing Centennial Win32 app support to Polaris via remote virtualization

 

The implications of this could be very massive depending on how this version of Windows 10 is rolled out, if it is just rolled out as a replacement to Windows 10 S then it shouldnt be that big of a deal, but if it is rolled out as a replacement for Windows 10 in general all Win32 programs would be effected by this.

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I think we've had news about this for a while. 

 

However, I hate it. I (and probably a lot of businesses) only use windows because of backwards compatibility. It's nice and you can get stuff done. It's the old parts of the OS that allow you to actually own your computer, to change it as you see fit. 

 

Once this gets rolled out, I'd imagine windows S will have subsidies, making those laptops cheaper. And as more and more laptops adopt that the (IMO) amazing Win32 system might start dying out everywhere but the enterprise.


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Would it be a "replacement'?  I thought Windows 10 was the new windows forever now, just with updates.  Or is this a big enough change that you couldn't just patch it onto an existing Windows 10 install?

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Windows S sure, but obviously they can't replace real windows with this any more than an iphone can replace a pro workstation with multiple quadros for the kind of work people do on those.

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9 minutes ago, bob51zhang said:

I think we've had news about this for a while. 

 

However, I hate it. I (and probably a lot of businesses) only use windows because of backwards compatibility. It's nice and you can get stuff done. It's the old parts of the OS that allow you to actually own your computer, to change it as you see fit. 

 

Once this gets rolled out, I'd imagine windows S will have subsidies, making those laptops cheaper. And as more and more laptops adopt that the (IMO) amazing Win32 system might start dying out everywhere but the enterprise.

10S is soley for machines that benefit from being locked down, like airport terminals, point of sales, and basic school machines.

Win32 isn't leaving any time soon, otherwise Windows RT would have been somewhat successful.

 

MS isn't stupid enough to get rid of the one thing that makes it so attractive to consumers, especially with their nigh non existant UWP app selection.


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2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

 

 

MS isn't stupid enough to get rid of the one thing that makes it so attractive to consumers, especially with their nigh non existant UWP app selection.

Or if they are it won't last.  Especially if they are stubborn enough to try and get enterprise businesses and specialized tech support to "update" and get the new locked down version of Windows. 


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7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

MS isn't stupid enough to get rid of the one thing that makes it so attractive to consumers, especially with their nigh non existant UWP app selection.

I seriously hope you are right, because if they do not understand this, they could very well virtually destroy modern computing as a whole.  Sure there's Linux and Mac but as everyone knows, many programs are not available for them so not having Windows (that can actually run existing Windows programs) would cause serious problems.

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4 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I seriously hope you are right, because if they do not understand this, they could very well virtually destroy modern computing as a whole.  Sure there's Linux and Mac but as everyone knows, many programs are not available for them so not having Windows (that can actually run existing Windows programs) would cause serious problems.

That might also force no shit driver support on Linux and make Linux become the predominant OS.  Not too mention you would no doubt have security updates get disabled by MS to "incentivize updating" and businesses not upgrading because they need their applications to run Win 32 and now you have a giant Cyber problem.  Of course MS would spin this and say "yeah we told them so to update to get security updates and upgrade to our wonderful new OS see what happened"  when really that would just be used as a means to force people to update to their new locked down environment.


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9 minutes ago, LordTaco42 said:

Or if they are it won't last.  Especially if they are stubborn enough to try and get enterprise businesses and specialized tech support to "update" and get the new locked down version of Windows. 

If the Enterprise and LTSB (or w/e it's called) versions of 10 are anything to go off of, MS understands that while client end might not require legacy components for the local instance, the backbone almost always will.

7 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I seriously hope you are right, because if they do not understand this, they could very well virtually destroy modern computing as a whole.  Sure there's Linux and Mac but as everyone knows, many programs are not available for them so not having Windows (that can actually run existing Windows programs) would cause serious problems.

Or the number of power users increases dramatically, with the influx of blocking update systems and/or just running Win 7/8.1.

 

Or running a current version of 10 in a VM on Linux with no network connectivity and everything installed was diwnloaded via Linux.


On the endless quest
So far into the west
Where history and destiny collide


Your luck will last forever and
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Voyage ever onwards
Set a course to the other side
Of the endless oceans blue

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There was also that "Workstation" Edition. It's no where to be found...


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20 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I seriously hope you are right, because if they do not understand this, they could very well virtually destroy modern computing as a whole.  Sure there's Linux and Mac but as everyone knows, many programs are not available for them so not having Windows (that can actually run existing Windows programs) would cause serious problems.

Wine 3.X is actually getting *MUCH* better the past few years, especially for the legacy applications that a lot of businesses use. Their DX10/11 support is finally getting functional, and their stability and performance issues with newer-ish versions of Windows like 7 have been largely addressed.

 

Up and coming there's a ton of work being done on DX11 and DX12 implementations on top of Vulkan which should drastically improve performance for modern graphical workloads in it.

 

If Microsoft kneecaps Windows, I could definitely see Wine usage picking up. I mean doesn't CrossOver already have an enterprise solution available based on Wine 2.X? The biggest issue would be with fleshing out the couple APIs that the Wine devs don't yet have implemented that might be important for enterprise solutions.

 

12 minutes ago, LordTaco42 said:

That might also force no shit driver support on Linux and make Linux become the predominant OS.  Not too mention you would no doubt have security updates get disabled by MS to "incentivize updating" and businesses not upgrading because they need their applications to run Win 32 and now you have a giant Cyber problem.  Of course MS would spin this and say "yeah we told them so to update to get security updates and upgrade to our wonderful new OS see what happened"  when really that would just be used as a means to force people to update to their new locked down environment.

Honestly Linux has rapidly been becoming more and more user friendly over the past 3-4 years. Between Ubuntu with their no-BS proprietary driver installs, Gnome on Wayland finally getting to the point where you don't have to mess with anything to get an intuitive user experience, and the push to make GNU/Linux GUIs more capable, requiring less and less terminal, it's never been easier to move to Linux.

 

That being said, expecting it to become the predominant kernel for non-Android, non-ChromeOS, non-Steam Machine, high performance, consumer machines is wishful thinking. People are too entrenched with Windows. Hell I could see users fighting tooth and claw to get Windows 7 back on their machine before they go to Linux.

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22 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

There was also that "Workstation" Edition. It's no where to be found...

It's already available. It's not a consumer OS and rolled out with the Fall Creator Update through OEMs and system vendors. There's no word yet on whether it will be available to consumers but they never said it would be, so I take that to mean it won't be. Which is f-ing asinine since they stripped out ReFS support from the existing Pro version, one of the reasons I upgraded to 10 in the first place.

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Read two articles on this earlier, with opposing viewpoints. One was rather gushing, calling it the future of MS. The other opened saying it will be another failed attempt to push UWP. Both were keen to point out this wasn't a replacement for conventional desktop Windows.

 

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. Who really wants this? It's Windows RT all over again... and they will fail, again. I really wish MS would stop messing around with this crap and concentrate on their neglected core strength: proper desktop (and laptop) users. 


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Bahaha, did that author really write that UWP is "light" and "high performance"?

 

 

51 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

10S is soley for machines that benefit from being locked down, like airport terminals, point of sales, and basic school machines.

Win32 isn't leaving any time soon, otherwise Windows RT would have been somewhat successful.

 

MS isn't stupid enough to get rid of the one thing that makes it so attractive to consumers, especially with their nigh non existant UWP app selection.

It is not just for machines which benefits from being locked down. Microsoft's long term goal is very clearly to get rid of win32 completely, and force users into UWP.

It's just that their previous attempt failed horribly so now they will probably force the transition more gradually.

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8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Microsoft's long term goal is very clearly to get rid of win32 completely, and force users into UWP.

It's possible that it's a very long term goal, but that's not remotely clear.


On the endless quest
So far into the west
Where history and destiny collide


Your luck will last forever and
The truth will never die
The fates shall be eternal on your side
Prepare to roll the dice just one more time


With the stars in the sky our guide
Voyage ever onwards
Set a course to the other side
Of the endless oceans blue

Treasure Island
Oh, the legends told of a land of rum and plunder
Treasure Island
On a quest for gold we'll sail the seven seas
 

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Great no more legacy components*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Legacy components: 99% of the shit you'd actually want to run since this is UWP only:

 

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It's likely that Polaris will replace Windows 10 S, and sources say that Microsoft is looking into bringing Centennial Win32 app support to Polaris via remote virtualization

 


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I think you all are massively overestimating the amount of people who will switch to Linux in enterprise / business. The vast majority of people working in industry, even in very technical computer-reliant roles, have next to zero patience to deal with misbehaving or non-optimally set up machines. If it takes more than one or two button clicks between log-in and starting work, it's a non-starter immediately.


Running Linux and Windows in VMs is absolutely not going to work for the majority of workers. Imagine trying to troubleshoot that on hundreds to tens of thousands of machines deployed across a moderately sized company-- that will never fly. Running Linux by itself also won't fly unless businesses suddenly stop using MS Office programs (also not going to happen). Remember all the retraining effort businesses had to go through for the Office 2003->2007 redesign? Now imagine that, plus a whole new OS, where that OS allows the user to break things much more easily, with the major downside that you can no longer use the programs your clients and customers and colleagues expect.

 

Businesses and enterprise would and could switch to Mac and OSX if Win32 goes away. No one in their right mind for general purpose computing and office work will switch to Linux.

 

We still deploy computers with Windows 7. You can still buy workstations that have Win7 native. If MS screws up this Win 10 redesign, we'll just continue to use ol' faithful Windows 7. That option is by far the lowest cost and has the lowest impact to productivity.

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3 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

Running Linux by itself also won't fly unless businesses suddenly stop using MS Office programs (also not going to happen).

Its already solved, its called Crossover...

 

5 minutes ago, bimmerman said:

No one in their right mind for general purpose computing and office work will switch to Linux.

Did you even try with some current distro? Its not as bad as you seem to think(im using linux for a long time).

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1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I seriously hope you are right, because if they do not understand this, they could very well virtually destroy modern computing as a whole.  Sure there's Linux and Mac but as everyone knows, many programs are not available for them so not having Windows (that can actually run existing Windows programs) would cause serious problems.

On the plus side, assuming all win32 apps get a store version, would bring better updating for apps.

 

Let's take a look at some apps.

 

Chrome. Installs God knows where maybe appdata? Has it's owner updater.

 

Then office install to programs but again has it's own updates. 

 

Adobe is the same also has it's own updater. 

 

With the Windows store everything would install to one place a d have one thing to update them. 


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Just now, vorticalbox said:

On the plus side, assuming all win32 apps get a store version, would bring better updating for apps.

 

Let's take a look at some apps.

 

Chrome. Installs God knows where maybe appdata? Has it's owner updater.

 

Then office install to programs but again has it's own updates. 

 

Adobe is the same also has it's own updater. 

 

With the Windows store everything would install to one place a d have one thing to update them. 

Yeah but that transition is not going to happen over night and for some apps might not ever happen at all (and in some cases, potentially for good reason)

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11 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah but that transition is not going to happen over night and for some apps might not ever happen at all (and in some cases, potentially for good reason)

It's a nice dream :) I read somehwrre that you can't wimdows from closimg uwp apps when in the background. So apps get closed when Windows thinks it should clear stuff out. 

 

Which is just not going to work for any chat app or anything that needs a running connection all the time. 


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1 minute ago, vorticalbox said:

It's a nice dream :) I read somehwrre that you can't wimdows from closimg uwp apps when in the background. So apps get closed when Windows thinks it should clear stuff out. 

 

Which is just not going to work for any chat app or anything that needs a running connection all the time. 

I have not heard that but yeah, that would be an issue xD

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No thanks. I'd like to keep using programs that I actually paid for outside of your shitty store.


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What was the point of releasing windows 10 S then?

why didn't they just wait?


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